cams turbo.

1. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

   #1 15th September 2009, 22:12

   canu run catcam 708s
   when turboed
   16v vts,
2. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #2 15th September 2009, 22:15

   it can be done, is it the best idea for your set up.
   
   Probably not in most cases.
3. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

   #3 15th September 2009, 22:18

   its for a m8, he is looking at the cituning set up,
   i got 708s in mine but i going itbs,
   he wants the same cams, but i nt sure if they will work
4. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #4 15th September 2009, 22:23

   why does he want the same cams?
   
   does he know that in most cases you dont want wild cams with boost?
5. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

   #5 15th September 2009, 22:31

   he hasnt a clue, hence why im asking lol
   i not that clued up on turbo setups myself
   why isit not gd to run wild cams
6. Ste Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo

   #6 15th September 2009, 22:46

   You'll get blow through with them at high rpm so ive been told, with the normal timing. Catcam do a set specific for turbo engines.
7. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

   #7 15th September 2009, 22:51

   normal timing as in standard timing, or cam specific timing
8. Ste Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo

   #8 15th September 2009, 22:55

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by adzvtr normal timing as in standard timing, or cam specific timing

   At the cams specified timing, you could retard them but then its just pointless fitting them.
   
   The turbo cams make the AFR easy to dial in/keep safe too. Standard or Turbo cams would be the only choice.
9. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

   #9 15th September 2009, 22:58

   708 should work ok as long as he isn't running mega boost. Seen several 'low boost' conversions running piper 285 cams which are similar profile to 708's.
   
   For higher boost the Cat cam turbo spec cams are the best bet though as the duration is staggered to prevent blow through
10. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #10 15th September 2009, 22:58

    cool, think he only planning on keeping it about 6 psi, if he wants more later will need internals and bits anyways,
11. Ste Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo

    #11 15th September 2009, 23:03

    With 6-7psi go with standard, sell the 708s and put towards dropping the compression.
12. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

    #12 15th September 2009, 23:04

    If he's thinking of upgrading later, might as well just get the right cams 1st time round. Be cheaper in the long run. Just get the turbo cams straight off and dont bother with 708's etc as you will lose money when you come to sell them.
    
    Or do as Ste says above
13. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #13 15th September 2009, 23:09

    on a whim, what if he uprated the springs lifters followers ect. to compensate for blow through
14. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

    #14 15th September 2009, 23:13

    dont think that would make any difference tbh, as its the cam that is also starting to open the valves, rather than just the boost pushing them open. Its the duration of the cam that is the problem, not just the boost pressure (that my understanding of it anyway). The turbo cams have a shorter duration on the exhaust side to prevent this
15. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

    #15 15th September 2009, 23:14

    Also uprated valve springs can cost a fair few ££'s, again adding cost
16. Ste Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo

    #16 15th September 2009, 23:20

    For the £500 it would cost for the springs and lifters you could have bought a set of low comp wossners with the standard cams and knock the boost upto 14psi. And for the £300 saved from not buying the turbo cams you could get a high quality intercooler and oil cooler.
    
    
    If its not being done on a budget then id avoid the N/A spec cams, the turbo lag would be emphasized, the AFR would be harder to keep safe, the revs will need to be high to keep it on boost and you don't want that with a turbo setup you want to keep the power under 7k so you don't wear everything out in a week.
    
    You want the turbo to spool upto full boost low down in the RPMS and because the N/A cams steal low down torque to put up at the top of the range then you lengthen the time it takes to spool the turbo.
17. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #17 15th September 2009, 23:21

    ye, will all cost money in the end, just getting ideas for him so can run all options by him, and if i know him he will want to try lol
18. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #18 15th September 2009, 23:23

    but i think i am starting to understand now.
    big cams good for n/a as ur trying to allow more air in.
    not so gd for forced as thats pushing more air in.
19. Ste Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo

    #19 15th September 2009, 23:24

    The money is best spent on a high quality turbo thats spec'd right on the money for the power he wants. And then on dropping the compression so you can get above the 200bhp mark and then on the cooling water/oil and boost so you can enjoy it for a long time.
20. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

    #20 15th September 2009, 23:26

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ste For the £500 it would cost for the springs and lifters you could have bought a set of low comp wossners with the standard cams and knock the boost upto 14psi. And for the £300 saved from not buying the turbo cams you could get a high quality intercooler and oil cooler. If its not being done on a budget then id avoid the N/A spec cams, the turbo lag would be emphasized, the AFR would be harder to keep safe, the revs will need to be high to keep it on boost and you don't want that with a turbo setup you want to keep the power under 7k so you don't wear everything out in a week. You want the turbo to spool upto full boost low down in the RPMS and because the N/A cams steal low down torque to put up at the top of the range then you lengthen the time it takes to spool the turbo.

    completely agree with this tbh
    
    Basically, there's little point in throwing loads of money at lairy cams, as if peak power increase is the ultimate goal, there are much higher gains to be had by running higher boost than can ever be got with any cams. Just that otehr things will need uprating to cope with the higher boost levels (oil cooler, intercooler low comp pistons etc).

    1 user thanked this post: Ste
21. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #21 15th September 2009, 23:32

    no to cams,
    spend money on better things,
    cooling and decomp plate.
    forged obviously the best way wen running higher boost
    and i have said personally i thnk he better off running bigger injectors with standalone
    than a 5th injector,
    would this be te best way.
22. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

    #22 15th September 2009, 23:37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by adzvtr no to cams, spend money on better things, cooling and decomp plate. forged obviously the best way wen running higher boost and i have said personally i thnk he better off running bigger injectors with standalone than a 5th injector, would this be te best way.

    yes basically.
    If he can afford forged bottom end - go for it as it will take whatever he can throw at it pretty much.
    
    standalone will work better than mf2/5th injector setup, but obviously is a lot more expensive (got to budget in mapping on top of purchase price).
    
    Cooling fairly easy and I personally wouldn't run a turbo convestion without some sort of additional cooling - front mount being obvious choice.
    
    All depends how far your going with it.
23. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #23 15th September 2009, 23:43

    he looking at getting this in the next couple weeks
    http://www.cituninguk.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=28531
24. Andy_K Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2004 in the garage trying to fix the car Posts: 5882 Mondeo st tdci & Supercharged vts

    #24 15th September 2009, 23:48

    Yeah they seem like a good basic kit. You can add the cooler, injectors and standalone etc to complete the kit to your own spec.
25. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #25 15th September 2009, 23:56

    ye was looking at that, im getting predator ecu on mine next month, so will see what its like, its held pretty high with everyone i have talked to(cant wait lol) then probs recomend it to him, with bigger injectors
26. sliderz Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2007 warrington Posts: 722 saxo vts turbo

    #26 16th September 2009, 01:18

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by adzvtr no to cams, spend money on better things, cooling and decomp plate. forged obviously the best way wen running higher boost and i have said personally i thnk he better off running bigger injectors with standalone than a 5th injector, would this be te best way.

    yes but forget the decomp plate get forged rods and pistons and run standalone with bigger injectors
    will cost a lot but can be built up over time
27. user_9396 Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r

    #27 16th September 2009, 01:24

    already covered m8, standalone and bigger injectors will be the way he goes
    and forged will be sorted by next year.
28. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #28 16th September 2009, 20:08

    went on the piper site las nit and the 285 is actually listed in the catalogue as a turbo spec cam, which is why people will say it responds to boost well lmao
29. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #29 16th September 2009, 20:28

    dont get turbo specc'd cams unless your wanting 340bhp+
30. Xsi16v_Jk Established Member Joined: Nov 2007 Hereford Posts: 1090 S2 Rallye ITB. Seat Leon FR. Clio 182FF. XSi 16v

    #30 16th September 2009, 20:33

    340bhp+ is a biggg ask lol.