Important! : gearbox

16th September 2009, 12:21

whats the difference with a vtr gearbox and vts gearbox

16th September 2009, 12:22

the gear ratio

16th September 2009, 12:23

vts has shorter ratio's , so faster acceleration

vtr has longer ratio's so ud have a higher top speed but slower getting there

16th September 2009, 13:12

same gearset in both boxes just the final drive is better on the s box which gives it better acceleration.

16th September 2009, 13:33

Ones called VTR and the others called VTS

16th September 2009, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexN

same gearset in both boxes just the final drive is better on the s box which gives it better acceleration.

im sure the vtr has a different gear cluster

the vts has a sports gear cluster same as the xsi and rallye box's but they all have different final drives

and the vtr box has a non sports cluster and the longest final drive, and vtr box is same as the furio and quicksilver box's and diesel i think

but it is the final drive that makes the diff, and i think its the higher the number the final drive is the shorter it makes it, if that makes sense lol

some one else will probs expand on it a little more

16th September 2009, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr_chris90

im sure the vtr has a different gear cluster

the vts has a sports gear cluster same as the xsi and rallye box's but they all have different final drives

and the vtr box has a non sports cluster and the longest final drive, and vtr box is same as the furio and quicksilver box's and diesel i think

but it is the final drive that makes the diff, and i think its the higher the number the final drive is the shorter it makes it, if that makes sense lol

some one else will probs expand on it a little more

There are a few different VTR boxes mate. The early VTR boxes use a non sports gear cluster. But the newer boxes do have the sports gear clusters.

As said though, (providin its a sports gearbox) the only difference is the final drive, but the gear ratios remain the same.

16th September 2009, 13:52

ahhhh i didnt realise the later boxs use sports cluster

although they still use same final drive so box are just as usuless as eachother lol

youd have thought making it a sports cluster they might have improved on the final drive a bit lol

16th September 2009, 13:59

if you are changing the box only go for a 106 rallye box top notch, quality gearing for acceleration you dont need topend!! in this shit hole country anyways

16th September 2009, 14:14

why only a rallye box?

have you got one?

and why are they the best?

yes they are quicker on acceleration, top end isnt the only thing you loose!

you also loose out on econamy and daily drivabilty, and its not only the rallye box, the 1.4 xsi box has 2nd shortest final drive, s1 rallye has shortest and then theres the s2 rallye and 1.6 xsi which use same gearbox
then vts/106 gti

personally a 16v gearbox is best ugrade for a vtr which is used on a daily basis and if you want a a decent increase in acceleration without loosing the econamy too much

an s2 rallye/1.6 xsi box is still a bearable box to use daily, but again comes at the price of econamy and nice motorway drives

and have a 1.4 xsi box and yes it is good for acceleration and is great on the odd accasion round the lanes etc but i use it daily and drive 50miles a day with it and it does get a bit shit, having to stick to 50mph to get decent mpg

16th September 2009, 14:37

Could always consider quaife in your box, that should help a tad!

16th September 2009, 14:40

it costs alot though lol

theres a 1.4 xsi box on rallyereg for sale at the min with quaife and been rebuilt

he wants 700quid, its a lot but well worth it imo

will cost more to do it all yourself

16th September 2009, 14:44

well lets be hounest mate all french gearboxes are shite so are the engines but the 106 rallye gearbox is clearly the best for outright acceleration and durability seen as it was designed for rallyin in mind short ratios coupled with close gear shifting and race set gear cluster as explained above makes it a very good box,
im not sayin you would get better fuel economy aswell!! there is no such thing, no matter what happens when you modify a car for performance gains you sacrafice fuel economy everytime,

but if you want a stronger more durable box with better acceleration thats the one by a looooong way!!

16th September 2009, 14:55

well thats not the only box

the xsi box is exactly the same and has same final drive bar the s1 rallye and 1.4 xsi although still is close between them

and the vts also uses sports cluster

but just cause they are in the rallye doesnt mean they were designed for rallying

there is such thing in good mpg in them as adsayer has proved, i manage to get 38-40mpg in a cammed numapped vtr with 1.4 xsi gearbox

but it is true in looing mpg what ever you do to a degree, most mods that are done on here are minor like breather mods which will not affect your mpg greatly, but just cause your changing your box it doesnt mean you have to use rallye/xsi box, some people would rather just replace with same box, plus its finding the rallye xsi box's there isnt many about and when they do pop up a good one/low mileage is around 150quid or upwards and rebuilds are about 200
but a vts box is usually around 100 or less and vtr box go for pennys

overall the rallye box isnt any stronger really than xsi or vts box they are the same bar final drive but thats not a huge difference, and having a sports cluster isnt a huge benifit over a non sports cluster, they all work just as good as eachother depending on how theyve been driven and the mileage

and yes it will be better on acceleration, and some people will want that, but they may not want to loose out on drivability, shorter final drives mean higher rpm at lower mph
so doing 50mph with a 1.4 xsi box you sit at just under 3k rpm, but with vtr box you will sit at 2k rpm if i remember right, which makes the rallye and xsi boxs not the nicest on the motorway, cause sitting at 70mph is just over 4k with them and its screaming its tits off, i know i have one

but vtr box is great for motorway driving
and alot of turbo guuys tend to go for vtr box cause its longer and means they are mre able to get the power down

16th September 2009, 15:02

How are the gearboxes and engines shite? And who told you the S1 rallye box is more durable?!

Shorter ratios? Race set gear cluster?

No offence but your "talking" shite. Its the same as the VTS/XSi/S2 rallye box etc etc but has a much more dramatic final drive.

16th September 2009, 15:12

lol yay someone agrees with me cheers rush
exactly what i said but in short

i just felt like writing an essay

the best part is its designed for rallying apparently,, hmmm abit more shite there i think

16th September 2009, 15:46

You know me Chris, last thing I want to do is offend/insult somebody. But posts like that seriously do make you want to bang your head against a fucking wall.

Spot of Rallyeeee'ing aye lol!?

16th September 2009, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by djdanman

well lets be hounest mate all french gearboxes are shite so are the engines but the 106 rallye gearbox is clearly the best for outright acceleration and durability seen as it was designed for rallyin in mind short ratios coupled with close gear shifting and race set gear cluster as explained above makes it a very good box,
im not sayin you would get better fuel economy aswell!! there is no such thing, no matter what happens when you modify a car for performance gains you sacrafice fuel economy everytime,

but if you want a stronger more durable box with better acceleration thats the one by a looooong way!!

LOL did you learn your info from the back of a cereal box???

The Rallye box uses the same diff/gear cluster as all sports MA boxes, so it is just as weak as any other sports box. The boxes are not piss weak either people who destroy them (usually the diffs) are people who dont have any idea on mechanical sympathy.

You dont get closer 'gear shifting' on a rallye box either, it doesnt have a 'race gearset'.

What you will have is a serverly limited top end, bad fuel economy but better in gear performance, this isnt the best thing for everyone

16th September 2009, 16:09

Dont the S1 boxes have nylon somethings..? Not sure but i think they have 2 parts that are nylon, whats the other boxes made from for these parts, and do they effect the longevity?

16th September 2009, 17:10

No idea matey. I would of thought every aspect of the box otherwise would be the same.

16th September 2009, 17:20

From what I've seen it's how you treat your gearbox will depend on how it will last,

had one mate who was a real heavy shifter and shot 6 gearboxs on his vts.

And YES the quaife setup WILL cost i.e. £1.5k - 4k i believe

16th September 2009, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by db_sax

Dont the S1 boxes have nylon somethings..? Not sure but i think they have 2 parts that are nylon, whats the other boxes made from for these parts, and do they effect the longevity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushy_23

No idea matey. I would of thought every aspect of the box otherwise would be the same.

Just found what i was looking for.

Quote:

old MAs use crap shifters with nylon bushes, newer ones use brass shifters(the changeover is 1996 approx)

So i guess the older S1 boxes are weaker.

16th September 2009, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukgaz

From what I've seen it's how you treat your gearbox will depend on how it will last,

had one mate who was a real heavy shifter and shot 6 gearboxs on his vts.

And YES the quaife setup WILL cost i.e. £1.5k - 4k i believe

Nope, a diff is £550+ vat and fitting.

A quaife gearset starts at 1150 + vat and fitting.