Whats Best To Gain BHP?

12th October 2009, 18:11

Cams Remapp 4-2-1
on a vtr

or Go VTS?

whats gains would i get from cams on the 8v?

12th October 2009, 18:12

if you can afford to id go 16v mate then play around with that. ull get much more power from the vts than r

12th October 2009, 18:14

and dont forget the vtr is single cam

12th October 2009, 18:20

just thinking for now, do i go VTS standard just with induction kit and exhaust system
or cam my vtr?

12th October 2009, 18:20

£ for £ going 16v will allways give you a better starting point.

You need to spend quite alot to get an 8v to 16v power.

12th October 2009, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

£ for £ going 16v will allways give you a better starting point.

You need to spend quite alot to get an 8v to 16v power.

okay just thinking the time etc of going VTS

if i get the VTS it will be standard for some time, well apart from exhaust n induction

for the money of vts i could cam n remapp? n maybe 4-2-1

12th October 2009, 18:28

can get a vts engine for £3-400 easily.

Fit it yourself.

You wont get a cam and mapping done for that money unless you get the mapping done very very cheap

12th October 2009, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

can get a vts engine for £3-400 easily.

Fit it yourself.

You wont get a cam and mapping done for that money unless you get the mapping done very very cheap

okay thanks, seams solved then

VTS it is

how much quicker are they to a vtr? just off the line, not botherd about top end

12th October 2009, 18:52

Go VTS

An then get cams an map...

12th October 2009, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoKez

okay thanks, seams solved then

VTS it is

how much quicker are they to a vtr? just off the line, not botherd about top end

2.5 secs or thereabouts 98bhp and 120 bhp respectively...not much in it is there!!

12th October 2009, 19:11

I'd rather stay 8vs and save on the fuel!

12th October 2009, 19:16

at min i do about 40mpg

12th October 2009, 19:28

16v if power is wot ur after

12th October 2009, 19:29

how much time you reckon to switch over to the s as im contemplting it soon

12th October 2009, 19:32

VTS!!!
vts does 33 mpg

12th October 2009, 19:54

cn live with the mpg then

n not sure maybe few days, depends if come across any problems

12th October 2009, 20:18

33mpg, granny driving? If so why have that power if you aren't going to use it

So spirited driving = 25ish? Sack that

.

Can still get 40+mpg heavy footed in a 8v.

12th October 2009, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

Can still get 40+mpg heavy footed in a 8v.

because you are accelerating at the same speed as a granny on her mobility ped.

12th October 2009, 20:22

i think not lol. Hardly a difference between a vtr/s.

Apart from yours, but you've thrown 5k+ at your engine so that don't count

.

12th October 2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeydamike

and dont forget the vtr is single cam

single camshft! 8 cams or lobes

and the prize for most cocky cunt on a monday is taken from you and given to me

12th October 2009, 20:27

just for the record ryan, what mpg does your 16v do? 20? 15?

12th October 2009, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

Hardly a difference between a vtr/s.

lol just more bhp, more torque and better gearing. Me and a friend both had standard cars, did a test, vtr was notably slower.

5k? that would get you my head and bottom end alone

12th October 2009, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

just for the record ryan, what mpg does your 16v do? 20? 15?

I dont calculate it but I actually got the similar milage to a tank as my old 8v when driving it as a daily for a few weeks.

12th October 2009, 20:31

Yeah but, a few mods to the 8vs can see the same acceleration as a std vts, but still use less fuel. WIN IMO

5k+ was a guess buddy

12th October 2009, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

Yeah but, a few mods to the 8vs can see the same acceleration as a std vts, but still use less fuel. WIN IMO

When modifying the engine you will make it more uneconomical in most cases, a few mods? not a small mod changing the cam shaft for most people, and even then you still have the crappy gearbox

12th October 2009, 20:36

i know, i used to get 45-50mpg std. Now i get 40-45mpg and hardly a difference between a std vts what does 33mpg.

Awaits slating that a lightly modified vtr won't keep up with a vts.

3 of my mates have vts's All 3 was surprised!

12th October 2009, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

Yeah but, a few mods to the 8vs can see the same acceleration as a std vts, but still use less fuel. WIN IMO

5k+ was a guess buddy

decent mods need a decent remap so that = more fuel so its not really a win, simplefact is the better your engine breathes and the more mixture it can shift ie in and out the better power youll see, 16v's shift mixture alot better then 8v's

12th October 2009, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

decent mods need a decent remap so that = more fuel so its not really a win, simplefact is the better your engine breathes and the more mixture it can shift ie in and out the better power youll see, 16v's shift mixture alot better then 8v's

light mods, basic breathing mods and close ratio box's don't need re-mapping.

12th October 2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

light mods, basic breathing mods and close ratio box's don't need re-mapping.

Theres no close ratio boxes as standard in the PSA range, only a different final drive.

As per my early post, changing the gearbox isnt a 'small' mod which can be done by someone with even basic mechanical knowlege.

12th October 2009, 20:44

5 bolts and a clutch release bearing and a few sensors isn't basic?

12th October 2009, 20:45

all this debating hey, gets me thinking again

12th October 2009, 20:45

and then light mods wouldnt give you the smae accelreation as a stock vts lmao, pick a route and stick to it!!!!!!!

12th October 2009, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

5 bolts and a clutch release bearing and a few sensors isn't basic?

You have not used the technical sections on here long enough if you think that changing a box is simple enough, most on here cant even change an air filter.

Plus, removing the gearbox isnt just 5 bolts, unless you have magical driveshafts which snap off at the diff end to make changes easyer which I dont know about

12th October 2009, 20:47

IMO a gearbox and breathing mods, are light. And it does give the same acceleration as a stock vts.

cams are heavy/expensive mods

12th October 2009, 20:48

and ball joints and wheel, and engine mounts and batery boxes etc and so forth

12th October 2009, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoKez

all this debating hey, gets me thinking again

ask any one whos been on the forums for ages and who first started off 8v.

You will notice almost all have gone 16v.

Why is that, because they want a 16v badge for extra street cred?

12th October 2009, 20:49

air filter exahaust system = light mod gearbox is not a light mod

12th October 2009, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

You have not used the technical sections on here long enough if you think that changing a box is simple enough, most on here cant even change an air filter.

Plus, removing the gearbox isnt just 5 bolts, unless you have magical driveshafts which snap off at the diff end to make changes easyer which I dont know about

haha fair point.

12th October 2009, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

air filter exahaust system = light mod gearbox is not a light mod

It's a 'light on the wallet' job tho

12th October 2009, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

IMO a gearbox and breathing mods, are light. And it does give the same acceleration as a stock vts.

cams are heavy/expensive mods

Then change the gearbox on the 16v and its gone again

12th October 2009, 20:52

Still get shit MPG tho

.

12th October 2009, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

It's a 'light on the wallet' job tho

s1 rallye box.......approx 200
my ph3, h/g set, timing belt kit water pump and vernier pulley 256 and the cams will last alot longer then the box will before if need refurbing

12th October 2009, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

Still get shit MPG tho

.

Just look at adsayer.

Also changing the box on the 8v will change the mpg, as the final drive to gain better in gear performance will give higher rpm for the same road speeds in relation to the stock box

12th October 2009, 20:55

i know this, but it still gets more mpg than a std 16v.

12th October 2009, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

i know this, but it still gets more mpg than a std 16v.

can still get over 40mpg out of a 16v.

I dont see that theres much difference, especially when one is quicker than the other

12th October 2009, 20:58

id say an 8v on an s1 box would be around the same as a stock cts tbh, would be revving alot higher, specially motorway miles

12th October 2009, 21:00

40mpg from a 16v isn't going to be faster than a vtr, as you will be pussy footing around everywhere.

So yeah, one is defo quicker than the other

12th October 2009, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

£ for £ going 16v will allways give you a better starting point.

You need to spend quite alot to get an 8v to 16v power.

I disagree with this to.

16v = 3-400 for engine.
1-200 to fit it.
50-100 to insure it.

8v= already have the engine.
20-40 for a 1.1 box 40-80 to fit it.
breathing mods 100-200.

So,
16v= 450-700

or

8v= 200-300

Both will give you roughly the same acceleration.

However the 8v will be saving you <20mpg every 10er worth of fuel.

And a engine conversion is alot more hassle than changing a few things on a 8v.

Good fight.

12th October 2009, 21:10

LOl why the fuck is everyone on about mpg, when the guy wanted to know performance gains....

And as for someone saying gearbox is a light inexpensive modification and that cams are heavy compared...... LOL you've Obviously never looked into it. Seen the price of a Diffed short ratio box, or even a sequential one. And the gains that can be had.

Ryan, you have a passion against the 8v.

it is true though. Similar money/mods on either engines=16v FTW. There is no contest. Only the passionate and foolish stay 8v

Oh and the duty bound.

12th October 2009, 21:12

i need to spend around 500 quid on my vtr to get through its mot mostly gearbox etc should i spend my money on a 16v?

12th October 2009, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

LOl why the fuck is everyone on about mpg, when the guy wanted to know performance gains....

And as for someone saying gearbox is a light inexpensive modification and that cams are heavy compared...... LOL you've Obviously never looked into it. Seen the price of a Diffed short ratio box, or even a sequential one. And the gains that can be had.

Ryan, you have a passion against the 8v.

it is true though. Similar money/mods on either engines=16v FTW. There is no contest. Only the passionate and foolish stay 8v

Didnt mention anything about a diffed short ratio box either.

20 quid for a 1.1 box vs 800 to cam a engine worth 100 quid.

thats a light mod tbh. As it doesn't need a expensive map/ set up on a rr like camming it does.

12th October 2009, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey1

i need to spend around 500 quid on my vtr to get through its mot mostly gearbox etc should i spend my money on a 16v?

-400 for labour and that's how much you need to spend.

12th October 2009, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

I disagree with this to.

16v = 3-400 for engine.
1-200 to fit it.
50-100 to insure it.

8v= already have the engine.
20-40 for a 1.1 box 40-80 to fit it.
breathing mods 100-200.

So,
16v= 450-700

or

8v= 200-300

Both will give you roughly the same acceleration.

However the 8v will be saving you <20mpg every 10er worth of fuel.

And a engine conversion is alot more hassle than changing a few things on a 8v.

Good fight.

try getting a vtr over 140bhp staying 8v and NA then try the same 16v, you will soon see which is the more economic way, heck try getting a 8v over 160bhp NA

Hence why everyone whos been around saxos for the last 6-7 years I have been around it has realised that the 8v engine limits you serverly and is not economical to extract good power from.

20mpg difference? making up numbers now are we?

1.1 box aswell, hope your diff lasts if you want to put any proper power through it

12th October 2009, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Ryan, you have a passion against the 8v.

it is true though. Similar money/mods on either engines=16v FTW. There is no contest. Only the passionate and foolish stay 8v

Oh and the duty bound.

owned a vtr, infact still have one.

Which id say puts me in a good position to say that they are not all that

I loved it when i was younger, it was my first car and have alot of fond memories, im glad i didnt piss money into the wind trying to get serious performance out of it though.

13th October 2009, 01:26

Sorry i meant 20 miles different from 10 quids worth of fuel in a vtr and 10 in a vts.

Why would i try and get 140-160 bhp out of the 8v engine? 100ish is plenty enough to have fun with in a saxo. And it doesn't break the bank.

Anyways going wayyy off the subject of a few simple mods to a 8v to make it the same acceleration as a stock vts, To save the hassle of a engine conversion.

ive had a 1.6 8v pushing 200bhp, Its simply too unreliable to enjoy. Plus the traction issues, it's just not needed in a car that weighs under 1000kg.

13th October 2009, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoKez

Cams Remapp 4-2-1
on a vtr

or Go VTS?

whats gains would i get from cams on the 8v?

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

Sorry i meant 20 miles different from 10 quids worth of fuel in a vtr and 10 in a vts.

Why would i try and get 140-160 bhp out of the 8v engine? 100ish is plenty enough to have fun with in a saxo. And it doesn't break the bank.

Anyways going wayyy off the subject of a few simple mods to a 8v to make it the same acceleration as a stock vts, To save the hassle of a engine conversion.

ive had a 1.6 8v pushing 200bhp, Its simply too unreliable to enjoy. Plus the traction issues, it's just not needed in a car that weighs under 1000kg.

Back to the first post.

Cam and remap a vtr or fit a vts.

= Fit a vts engine.

You are the one who went totally off topic going on about mpg

13th October 2009, 15:16

Everyone in the same position as Ryan gives the advice requested and gets slated for saying it. The 8v is shit, its shit, shit shit. I thought it was brilliant then I swapped it for a VTS as I was told and haven't looked back.

Modding the VTR engine isn't really worth doing. Its just as expensive as the 16v but responds with less power. The VTS engine is an instant 30bhp!!!!! It cost me £800 for the full conversion, MK2 Engine on 36k all the labour and a full big service.

Cams= £330
Remap=£350
4-2-1=£140

=£820