Pro's and con's on camming a vts

20th October 2009, 16:50

just wondered really as im looking to do mine my understanding is you need all your breathing mods done along with 4 branch and exhaust as to when you get it cammed it will have to be re-mapped
and haveing all this allready done will save $$$ just haveing it mapped once

just worried about engine , gearbox and genral where ?

thanx dean

20th October 2009, 16:55

> Dont have to have breathing mods, but they will help make the best of it so are definetly advised.

> Not all cams have to be remaped, infact if you could live with lumpy idle, the majority of them wouldnt, but the remap helps all the things tie in together for a bigger bhp increase so definetly advised.

And the wear shouldnt be any worse than normal, if your going for a extreme cam then forged internals or TBs may be needed. Other than that the gearbox will be fine.

20th October 2009, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

> Dont have to have breathing mods, but they will help make the best of it so are definetly advised.

> Not all cams have to be remaped, infact if you could live with lumpy idle, the majority of them wouldnt, but the remap helps all the things tie in together for a bigger bhp increase so definetly advised.

And the wear shouldnt be any worse than normal, if your going for a extreme cam then forged internals or TBs may be needed. Other than that the gearbox will be fine.

ok thanx i read the sticky that STE DONE and im looking at newman ph3,s are thease a mild cam ?

I will be getting a full magnex with a decat and have a RACELAND 4-2-1 MANI ordered , induction kits allready done.

will get it remapped defo will this make the rought idle that comes with cam's smoother?

20th October 2009, 17:18

Yes a remap will make the idle a lot smoother, as well as bringing all your modifications together for a good increase

And the Ph3 isnt really a mild cam, PH2 and PH1s dont need remaps. But the PH3 is far from a full on "race only cam", and is ok for everday use.

Hope i have been a help.

20th October 2009, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Yes a remap will make the idle a lot smoother, as well as bringing all your modifications together for a good increase

And the Ph3 isnt really a mild cam, PH2 and PH1s dont need remaps. But the PH3 is far from a full on "race only cam", and is ok for everday use.

Hope i have been a help.

Also been looking at ph1,s and ph2 ,s as well whats the diffrence between them ?

i no its not possible to say here and now but at a rough guess what are the power gains on

ph1 ph2 and ph3,s with the above add ons

Bit warerey of the ph,3s also i heard they can idle badley after a remap i want to be using mine as an everday car so dont want that

Basicially im after a mild cam for a bit more power but want a normal running car .

And yes you've been a great help

20th October 2009, 19:13

Ive had my ph3's in my s for about 18 months now. Idling is fine once mapped and theirs good gains to be had 145bhp+ depending on rollers. Unmapped mine was utter dog poo, terrible idle and lots of flatspots

20th October 2009, 19:26

One of the biggest cons of doing all this work to a saxo I am only just realising. That you can spend thousands on them like I have then when it comes to selling its worth hardly anymore than a standard one,

Just something to consider.

20th October 2009, 19:32

also cams are supposed to be changed over time so could become expensive

20th October 2009, 19:39

anything less than a ph3 isnt w0rth it.

20th October 2009, 20:23

Thanx all for the help will do alot more reserch befor going ahead

20th October 2009, 21:59

Just go for the PH3, with a remap i will be fine for daily use, and with you breathing mods expect somewhere in the region of 150bhp.

20th October 2009, 21:59

look into catcams 708s basically the same as ph3 but have a good idle unmapped

20th October 2009, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mint-VTR

also cams are supposed to be changed over time so could become expensive

Not really true, the cams will far outlast anyones interest in a car, they dont wear down unless a tappets fucked or theyre starved of oil, in mildly tuned cars anyway.

Theres arent many downsides to camming, MPG when cruising at steady speeds even goes up when mapped properly along with the power gains

20th October 2009, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mint-VTR

also cams are supposed to be changed over time so could become expensive

I've never heard of a TU engine wearing a cam out.

As long as the new cams are lubed up (ooo er) and you keep some revs on the engine during the first start (to harden the lobe tips), the cams should outlast the engine really.

20th October 2009, 22:08

in my expensive, PH3 have a better unmapped idle, also depends on the timng you use when unmapped,

also dont forget a big con is the mid range is lose with cams alot, as the peak is alot more peaky, also have to rev it higher and harder, so make sure everything else is in good order beofre doing it,

pro's is the car will be faster once setup and mapped well, and still be a good daily drive on 708 or ph3,

but i would change followers at the same time as changing camshafts, also always get a new cambelt when doing it, maybe best to get a cambelt kit and new water pump.

andy

20th October 2009, 22:10

yes camshafts will be pre oil and lube well ph3 where but always best to lube them up before first start, and ph3 dnt need running preiod just nice drving for a good 25-50 miles

andy

20th October 2009, 22:15

With my Kent cam, the spec sheet specifically said not to let the car idle during the first start - IIRC, it said to hold the engine at 3k revs for 20 minutes. Pretty sure we just bled the coolant and took the car for a 10 minute journey up the road (leaving it in a low gear to keep the revs up).

20th October 2009, 22:16

Cheeky question; wheres the best place for followers? I can get shit on trade but theyre a shitroen only part (as far as motorfactors go) and they want over £330 for a set.

20th October 2009, 22:17

Piper instructions said to not let idle, I ran them in for around 20mins at 2.5k - from Reading it's to harden the cam lobes as at idle they are put under increased pressure, god knows if it works, but at £300 for cams and £200 for followers I wasn't risking them wearing out quicker!!

QEP or catcams website (same thing) for followers - £200

20th October 2009, 22:23

Shit theyre still expensive then. Bit of a rip off that. Oh well shit happens already had 4 sets of J4 tappets now its starting to take the piss a bit may aswell pay ze price and gets me goods

20th October 2009, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Shit theyre still expensive then. Bit of a rip off that. Oh well shit happens already had 4 sets of J4 tappets now its starting to take the piss a bit may aswell pay ze price and gets me goods

Yeh, I soaked mine in good quality oil so that they were oiled rights from when the engine turned over, I bought mine from catcams and have been spot on so far *touch wood* - have done about 5-7k on them so far.

21st October 2009, 07:25

yer newman are different then, as they state they dont need running in, just 25-50miles of gentle drving,

newman sell the OEM followers now i think they cost me 150 quid all in,

also they should be press out before using as they will have mechine oil in them still, and hydro followers have to be press out, so they wil adjust up correctly, but i would get new followers, do a job the correct way to first time, as if you use old follower and then go wrong you will jsut have to take it all part again.

andy

andy

21st October 2009, 09:26

Yeh, newmans must heat/cure the cam lobes within the production process - would be a better way of doing it!

Don't think my nieghbours appreciated 20mins at 3k

21st October 2009, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

> Dont have to have breathing mods, but they will help make the best of it so are definetly advised.

> Not all cams have to be remaped, infact if you could live with lumpy idle, the majority of them wouldnt, but the remap helps all the things tie in together for a bigger bhp increase so definetly advised.

And the wear shouldnt be any worse than normal, if your going for a extreme cam then forged internals or TBs may be needed. Other than that the gearbox will be fine.

even with a remap 708's and ph3's have a lumpy idle.
Thats because you time the cams in to make power higher up the rev range.

Lumpy idles are not bad at all tbh Still fairly smooth but is lumpy compared to standard.

Been in a car with un mapped 708's had a lumpy idle and a huge amount of flat spots and was slower than standard especially top end.

Mild camshaft upgrades dont require a remap and normally give a smooth idle if your bothered about it.

Been in a few VTS's and drove a few with 708's and ph3's. They are quick tbh and seem to get better mpg on the motorway, obviously less when flooring it around a track

Looking at over a grand to cam your car. (thats with buying stuff new and getting it all fitted)
Tbh these days you can buy a decent spec vts already cammed for a few $$$