Are Gti 6 brakes on a saxo any good ?

22nd October 2009, 15:19

Are Gti 6 brakes any good on a saxo!

22nd October 2009, 15:22

yup

/thread

22nd October 2009, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodys-Saxo

Are Gti 6 brakes any good on a saxo!

the best single pot yes.

22nd October 2009, 15:23

yes. They have a bigger surface area so cope with heat a lot better, though at the expense of unsprung weight and handling.

Kev

22nd October 2009, 15:23

Cheers im loooking for a vtr at mo ... and have to post like 100 threads before i can properly look on here !... how shit!!

22nd October 2009, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodys-Saxo

Cheers im loooking for a vtr at mo ... and have to post like 100 threads before i can properly look on here !... how shit!!

Or upgrade to premium membership

22nd October 2009, 15:25

yer thats true but at the mo havent got no spare cash !!!

22nd October 2009, 16:15

the 266mm option is better to avoid too much unsprung weight from what ive read

22nd October 2009, 21:37

go for it!!!!!so much better than std

22nd October 2009, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepper953

go for it!!!!!so much better than std

Let's be honest, putting your foot out the door onto the road is better than standard...

23rd October 2009, 00:25

if there good enough that ryan ran them (with decent pads) on his throttle bodied toy then i would say there up to the task

i still love my 4 pots tbh sod the weight

23rd October 2009, 08:35

They are awsome had some on my old vtr need to get some for my s now highly recommeded!

23rd October 2009, 13:59

You will need atleast 15 inch wheels tho.
I'm getting some gti-6 brakes soon :-)

23rd October 2009, 14:03

gti-6 are the step before 4pots i would say, they are a good fast road setup

14th November 2009, 02:46

Thanks people !!

14th November 2009, 18:59

Even the 266 option is good imo

Brakes on my VTS were shite, but now I got a 306 HDI (266 as standard) and the braking is very good, and thats on a car which is about 300kg heavier than a Saxo

14th November 2009, 19:05

266mm with uprated disks and pads is the best non aftermarket option in my opinion, 283s are just more weight

6th January 2010, 00:01

283's rock imo, sorry old thread ish but its the best money spent on my car yet

6th January 2010, 00:07

So much sh*te here about "ooh what about the extra weight"

to be honest id rather have the very slight bit of extra weight of the 283's over the 266's and know that i have better brakes

if people were that bothered about gaining extra weight then lose just as much shedding some useless crap out of the car or better still get some lighter alloys.

At the end of the day a slight bit of extra weight which will be barely noticeable is worth the sacrifice over improving the safety of your car

/thread

6th January 2010, 08:34

Matts summed it up. Dont moan about weight of them if you are not willing to loose weight in other palces. Its not a massive noticable difference between 266&283

6th January 2010, 08:52

Unless i lose weight i need the extra braking of 283's

6th January 2010, 09:09

Just had mine fitted with m1144 pads and the difference is amazing. I am still running them in but had to brake hard for a muppet yesterday and stopped about 12 feet further away than I thought i would. Good upgrade for the money!

6th January 2010, 09:19

decent discs and pads have a good difference aswell, when I had gti6 setup even standard oem stuff was good

6th January 2010, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by willsy

So much sh*te here about "ooh what about the extra weight"

to be honest id rather have the very slight bit of extra weight of the 283's over the 266's and know that i have better brakes

if people were that bothered about gaining extra weight then lose just as much shedding some useless crap out of the car or better still get some lighter alloys.

At the end of the day a slight bit of extra weight which will be barely noticeable is worth the sacrifice over improving the safety of your car

/thread

Its not about overall weight though.
Certainly I can notice a difference in handling and suspension response when swapping from basic 205 rallye brakes, to 1.9 gti ones, to 266mm ones.
Our trackday car got put back to standard brake calipers with uprated pads for this very reason, as well as getting rid of the gti wheels as they had a similar detrimental effect compared to lighter steel wheels.
Unless you are overheating your brakes there is no safety benefit at all. You will not stop in a shorter distance unless your current setup is incapable.
They have a greater heat capacity which can be a big help for some, but to say there is no noticeable downside is a little off the mark..how far you have to press your brake pedal is down to user preference, not safety.
If you want to stop quicker then you have to look at other areas of the car rather than the brakes. Better suspension will control weight transfer and control camber changes more effectively, reducing chassis weight will reduce weight transfer, getting the right tyres will increase the friction between the tyre and the road. After all that I would look at brakes.

Kev

6th January 2010, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

decent discs and pads have a good difference aswell, when I had gti6 setup even standard oem stuff was good

The larger pad surface and disc area of the gti-6 setup will allow the pads to run cooler, so you are less likely to overheat them. This will allow most people to use oem pads rather than uprated ones, but for trackday cars i'd still get away from oem stuff as you get better feel through the pedals. Also with ones like carbone lorraine they can't catch fire

6th January 2010, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

= Also with ones like carbone lorraine they can't catch fire

Do they not kill wheels?

6th January 2010, 10:57

I still don't agree Kam. On a 205 perhaps which has a different suspension setup maybe it makes more difference, but on a saxo it really doesn't feel that different. On track it feels the same, on road you can only feel the difference on bumpy stuff because obviously the extra weight doesn't help. But then lightweight wheels can make up for the brakes weight anyway, and i'd rather have heavy brakes that work and not have to replace discs regularly, than light brakes that cost me a pair of discs every track day and the potential of cracked discs through excessive heat, and hence potential brake failure/locking.

6th January 2010, 11:03

i'm guessing the answer is

if you drive hard or do track days, then they're worth it

if you don't, just go for standard. i completely replaced my front brake setup with new calipers pads and discs, and they were lethal for the driving i was doing. only problem is brake fade now as i've got steelies on the front!

6th January 2010, 11:09

Ive got to agree with not noticing the difference. Certain cars you do tell the difference when big differences in discs size etc etc But with the saxo/106 its not going to be massive unless you go for some massive 300mm 6pots or something.

6th January 2010, 11:28

i cant imagine the difference beween 266 and 287 is gonna be anything.

i doubt performance would be massively noticable for good or for worse.

6th January 2010, 11:30

Even a barely noticable difference in braking could be enough to avert a crash

6th January 2010, 11:40

Purely theoretically speaking, i am working out the surface area of the discs, this includes the centre bell so doesn't give you an accurate reading of actual friction area, just the difference between them

Surface area of
247mm disc = 479.2cm2
266mm disc = 555.7cm2 = +76.5cm2
283mm disc = 629cm2 = +73.3cm2

So 283s are almost the same increase on top of 266s, that 266s are on top of 247s. And that's ignoring the difference in disc thicknesses, and that the size of the centre remains constant whereas the friction area gets larger, so the increase in size is almost purely of the friction area. And the pads are larger too on bigger calipers.

6th January 2010, 11:43

How heavy is a 283 caliper?

6th January 2010, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

Purely theoretically speaking, i am working out the surface area of the discs, this includes the centre bell so doesn't give you an accurate reading of actual friction area, just the difference between them

Surface area of
247mm disc = 479.2cm2
266mm disc = 555.7cm2 = +76.5cm2
283mm disc = 629cm2 = +73.3cm2

So 283s are almost the same increase on top of 266s, that 266s are on top of 247s. And that's ignoring the difference in disc thicknesses, and that the size of the centre remains constant whereas the friction area gets larger, so the increase in size is almost purely of the friction area. And the pads are larger too on bigger calipers.

If i get you a girls phone number would you call her up?

6th January 2010, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

Purely theoretically speaking, i am working out the surface area of the discs, this includes the centre bell so doesn't give you an accurate reading of actual friction area, just the difference between them

Surface area of
247mm disc = 479.2cm2
266mm disc = 555.7cm2 = +76.5cm2
283mm disc = 629cm2 = +73.3cm2

So 283s are almost the same increase on top of 266s, that 266s are on top of 247s. And that's ignoring the difference in disc thicknesses, and that the size of the centre remains constant whereas the friction area gets larger, so the increase in size is almost purely of the friction area. And the pads are larger too on bigger calipers.

and weight differences?i shoulnt expect it to be that much,as long as the friction surface + extra leverage+ cooler running outweighs the weight.

alex is ghey!

6th January 2010, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

I still don't agree Kam. On a 205 perhaps which has a different suspension setup maybe it makes more difference, but on a saxo it really doesn't feel that different. On track it feels the same, on road you can only feel the difference on bumpy stuff because obviously the extra weight doesn't help. But then lightweight wheels can make up for the brakes weight anyway, and i'd rather have heavy brakes that work and not have to replace discs regularly, than light brakes that cost me a pair of discs every track day and the potential of cracked discs through excessive heat, and hence potential brake failure/locking.

The low model 205's are not that far off the 106 design, though with a subframe. Similar weight and weight bias too.
The simple thing is if you are overheating the brakes and discs then you need to change something. Its not necessarily the brakes.
Personally I'd rather save for a 4 pot setup as the calipers tend to be lighter, then run as small a disc as I can get away with. Some simple ducting from the front can make all the difference.

kev

6th January 2010, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleracer

and weight differences?i shoulnt expect it to be that much,as long as the friction surface + extra leverage+ cooler running outweighs the weight.

alex is ghey!

The large friction surface will only aid cooling
The leverage only changes how far you press your pedal, not how much force you can apply overall.

6th January 2010, 12:49

Sure paul

Kam i was thinking more along the lines of track rods on hubs rather than up top, also track control arms instead of wishbones, much more deflection in the bushes?! hence unsprung weight etc may have a more profound effect on both steering feel and actual deflection?!

6th January 2010, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

Do they not kill wheels?

I run RC5 on my road car with no issues. I wipe the dust off
The RC5+ does not even create the dust anymore.

The issue is people have used low carbon discs with the RC6 race pads so disc material gets deposited on the wheels and bodywork.

6th January 2010, 12:58

RC6 = rusty wheels and rusty metal ingrained into your bodywork lol

6th January 2010, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

I run RC5 on my road car with no issues. I wipe the dust off
The RC5+ does not even create the dust anymore.

The issue is people have used low carbon discs with the RC6 race pads so disc material gets deposited on the wheels and bodywork.

So with Oe discs which ones would leave my wheel paintwork as it is now ?

6th January 2010, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

The large friction surface will only aid cooling
The leverage only changes how far you press your pedal, not how much force you can apply overall.

the larger friction surface will increase the friction surface,therefore increasing braking power!?

6th January 2010, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

Sure paul

Kam i was thinking more along the lines of track rods on hubs rather than up top, also track control arms instead of wishbones, much more deflection in the bushes?! hence unsprung weight etc may have a more profound effect on both steering feel and actual deflection?!

The TU engined 205's run a track control arm with the antirollbar running directly through these. I dont know if the 106 would have more movement unless the rear bush was very soft. Powersteering could be the key here though. All my back to back experience is with a non power steered car so steering feel was as good as its going to be. It may be that powersteering can mask some of the characteristics.

It can be just one of those situations where one person will notice and another will not.

Kev

6th January 2010, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleracer

the larger friction surface will increase the friction surface,therefore increasing braking power!?

This is what i'm trying to understand lol

6th January 2010, 13:22

I run non PAS, you can feel the difference definitely it's just not massive though. And for road use 247s with decent pads are fine. I mean i got away with 100% standard brakes before. But IMO 283s are still worthwhile...

6th January 2010, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleracer

the larger friction surface will increase the friction surface,therefore increasing braking power!?

sadly not. You are looking at the wrong friction surface. Your limiting factor is your tyres and keeping the tyre contact patch at optimum to maximise the friction between the road and the tyre compound.

What a 306 brake caliper and disc will do is alter the amount of force needed at the pedal to apply maximum force at the caliper. The maximum force able to be applied is controlled by the tyres. So whether you have 1cm or 10cm of pedal travel the braking will be the same. The simple test is whether you can lock your brakes. If you can do that you can exceed the friction levels of the tyres. If you cannot then you need better brakes!
The large heat capacity of the 306 brakes means that you can potentially brake this hard more times if the heat capacity of the standard system is too low.
There will be tiny differences in braking distance due to how fast you can apply the maximum braking effort needed. Pedal movement is a small factor as is the pad compound. The reality is they are not going to get you out of trouble should a situation arise though you may have the benefit that you feel more confident in your brakes. Good pedal feel is important as you want to know what your car is doing.

Kev

6th January 2010, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

I run non PAS, you can feel the difference definitely it's just not massive though. And for road use 247s with decent pads are fine. I mean i got away with 100% standard brakes before. But IMO 283s are still worthwhile...

I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to handling so I will not do any upgrades that alter it from the way I like it but as long as you feel the benefits outway the disadvantages then alls good. I'm only highlighting that braking is not all about brakes

Generally though I find the bigger engined 205's and 106's are inferior in handling and so I am in a quest to reduce weight from the front end to get better weight distribution. Big discs are one (of many) of the problem areas

Kev

6th January 2010, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by willsy

So much sh*te here about "ooh what about the extra weight"

to be honest id rather have the very slight bit of extra weight of the 283's over the 266's and know that i have better brakes

if people were that bothered about gaining extra weight then lose just as much shedding some useless crap out of the car or better still get some lighter alloys.

At the end of the day a slight bit of extra weight which will be barely noticeable is worth the sacrifice over improving the safety of your car

/thread

Tell it like it is Matt.

6th January 2010, 20:24

Whoo wantss to fit them for me

!

7th January 2010, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bickerton

So with Oe discs which ones would leave my wheel paintwork as it is now ?

The RC5+ are specifically developed for fast road and trackday cars and will do the trick nicely.

7th January 2010, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodys-Saxo

Whoo wantss to fit them for me

!

PM Sparco_Tom he's in Aylesbury, fully trained mechanic

When did you pick up a set of these anyway?

James

7th January 2010, 11:39

i'll fit them, im free quite alot of the time at the moment

7th January 2010, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom

i'll fit them, im free quite alot of the time at the moment

i will come see you soon.
i want you to fit my gti 6 brakes and fuel retun
i cant fit the place where the fuel return connects into.
some where in the tank i think you said :s

7th January 2010, 11:44

when the snows gone, just drive down