PiperX Re-located

9th February 2006, 04:36

I come up with this today,cheap as chips,but will it work?It Was a mates idea,but im not so sure.

9th February 2006, 05:28

i think it should work better than the standard position!. try and make a heat sheild though so it draws air from the opposite side of the exhaust manifold... hot air is bad!.

9th February 2006, 18:28

i dont see any reason why it wouldnt work!
Like jamie said. some sort of heat sheild wouldnt go a miss but looks good for nearly free!

You'll be surprised at the difference it makes takin it to the front! that extra cold air helps more than you think!

i used to have my piperx bolted straight on but since my relocation i noticed a big difference in torque beleive it or not and it picks up a lot better throughout the whole of the rev range!

one thing i didnt understand though. sunce it was moved to the front the revs don't seem to drop as much between gears!
is this just me or is there an explanation for this?

9th February 2006, 23:18

VTR engines arent really that bad for heat soak, but if you are concerned - you'd be better off just buying an enclosed filter.

As for improving torque drastically just from moving the open filter a foot and half away from where it was...I'm not so sure I'm afraid mate

10th February 2006, 03:38

i want to do that to mine!

where did you get the pipes from?

Edit: never mind, saw the photo

but does anyone know where i could get pipes to do something like that?

10th February 2006, 04:38

im impressed with that! Good job!

10th February 2006, 04:55

Cheers for the comments/Advice guys,i shall be sorting sum sort of heat shield device as my next job.

10th February 2006, 18:23

ive had mine relocated for well over a year now and as spencer mention drawing cold air is the way forward.

10th February 2006, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by wideboy

VTR engines arent really that bad for heat soak, but if you are concerned - you'd be better off just buying an enclosed filter.

As for improving torque drastically just from moving the open filter a foot and half away from where it was...I'm not so sure I'm afraid mate

I aint got a clue either but it deffo feels asthough shees got a bit more!

could be something to do with the extra effort it has to put in to suck it through

or even the difference in internal diameters of the silicone hosing and the alloy pipes creating turbulence in the air flow!!!

could be a few things! I also deliberatly bought the piping and hosing wider than the filter diameter and also the intake diameter to create kind of an expansion chamber. bin told it would create a kind of compression effect on the air as it goes into the actual throttle body from the gradual silicone reducer .
bit like the pic i just scetched3F66B_AI.doc

10th February 2006, 18:29

also vtr engines are quite bad for heat soak!

after your next journey lift your bonnet and put your hand where you would normally see your bolt on kit behind the engine and then try outtin your hand rite infront of your battery where my filter is pictured. you,ll notice a huge difference in temperature!

10th February 2006, 18:32

i cant see pipe size making a differnece because the car only takes the amount it needs.

as for the air temp people will arguee (sp) all day long about it but the only way to test open filter, enclosed filter and relocation it to measure the air temp in the throttle body itself after fitting the differnent filters. has anyone dont this????

10th February 2006, 18:34

karlvtr, imo i would change the rubber tube from the throttle body to the alloy pipe for something smooth because that would flow air better. Just look at the manufactoured ones.

10th February 2006, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by cammedvtr

karlvtr, imo i would change the rubber tube from the throttle body to the alloy pipe for something smooth because that would flow air better. Just look at the manufactoured ones.

Cheers matey,Advice taken

.Its been on 3 days now and there is a difference to were it was,noise wise.I shall be look into getting a smoother pipe from throttle body to alloy pipe.The rubber pipe whats on it now was from a air filter system on a Iveco van,cant grumble at 2 quid.

10th February 2006, 20:16

haha, good call mate.

11th February 2006, 01:32

If you think a vtr is bad for heat soak...try opening a vts lid after a good run down the motorway or sitting in traffic! You'll notice the difference instantly!

Ive owned both vtr and vts..and to be perfectly honest - heatsoak really doesnt affect an R that much.

Heat's bad..fair enough, but you'd be better off with enclosed rather than just relocating it -- That way you have a more direct current of cold air, and a sheild to reflect a lot of the heat.

Fair play to you though, definately a good enough idea

11th February 2006, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wideboy

If you think a vtr is bad for heat soak...try opening a vts lid after a good run down the motorway or sitting in traffic! You'll notice the difference instantly!

Ive owned both vtr and vts..and to be perfectly honest - heatsoak really doesnt affect an R that much.

same here the vts is way worse after sitting in rush hour traffic than the vtr ever was

i relocated the k&n my vtr had on to the front and never really noticed any difference even when it was cammed and i ahd the 4 branch fitted but there was a slight improvement when i fitted an enclosed filter

for a couple of quid down at a scrappy and a little play about under the bonnet what you've got there is better than what most companies charge alot for

11th February 2006, 02:57

i think anyone with half an ounce of brains would know that the vts would give more heat out due to the size of the engine. i have a 4 branch and cammed and all the othe crap and when i relocated the filter it felt better for me. maybe its the k+n filter??? im not sure mate.

11th February 2006, 03:10

I agree with joe and ste, I cant see how relocating an open filter will make it any better than where it was.

11th February 2006, 03:18

yes dan we all know what you think but you have never proven it. we all know that a enclosed filter would be better than an open in theory, but people do what they want.

11th February 2006, 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cammedvtr

but people do what they want.

I never said the didnt mate. You havent proven that your open filter would be equally as good as an enclosed though have you.

11th February 2006, 05:33

i think it doesnt make a difference if it is an enclosed filter or not as long as the air being drawn in is cool the engine doesnt give a shit..

11th February 2006, 06:38

i reckon take it off put the filter back where it was attatch the extension pipe to the front and direct the cold air at the filter as at the mo may just be me but looks a little flimsy in its orig place it will be solid and the cold air will flood it nicely if directed to it

11th February 2006, 22:25

vta i think you are wrong by saying that!. i not being nasty but how can the engine draw in cool air if the open air filter is at the back of the eingine??..
i think it would be even better if he extended the pipe so the filter was as far down as the front of the gear box.. you might think that its daft but where is the coolest part of the engine bay??..well its not up by the throttle body i can tell you that much!.i did a simular mod on my ax gt after having a pipercross stuck on top of the carb i found it went like a sack of shite. so i took the old air box, cut it and joined some aluminium pipe from the middle of a combi boiler flu. i brought it down as far as the passenger side headlight and noticed much better power at lower revs!.. i think he has done a good job!.

11th February 2006, 22:43

well i think the idea is also good because the closer the front the cooler the air from outside the engine bay.

Dan, i have never compared my relocated filter to the enclosed ones and i have never said it would work better. but to my understanding it has never been proven (power gains) so until then no one has room to assume the verdict imo.

12th February 2006, 04:05

all an enclosed air filter does is it find draws cooler air from the open end( if the open end is in a cooler place) so in theory neither is better unless its drawing in cooler air!. the job of an air filter is to filter the air, what happens before the air gets to the filter is a different story. so it also depends on the quality of filtration!.

12th February 2006, 16:29

think im going to do this to my filter tbh.

i have a generic K&N-like filter on my VTS. it was there when i bought the car and the rest of the car was in really good nick so i didn't want to turn it down!

since i am moving house i have to save every penny so cant spend it on the saxo, so i made a little DIY mod myself, giving the filter a little bit of cold air into the inner cone of the filter.

after seeing what you lot have done, i think ill relocate it instead!

im very new to all this engine stuff so its all a learning curve for me, but im enjoying it and thats the main!!!

12th February 2006, 16:30

and before anyone mentions the green pipe and the bottle, thats getting sorted soon with a proper catch tank!!!

13th February 2006, 15:57

if you can get it right away from just about all the engine heat then yeah it will probally make a difference but it wont be the sort of power you'll actually be able to feel not on an N/A 1.6 engine

and if you do relocate it down to the front of the bumper it wont make that much of a difference will it due to all the crap off the roads especially at this time of year all that will reduce the filtration wont it?so you'll be forever cleaning it

2nd March 2006, 20:11

if you moved an open air filter to the front of the engine would it still be as loud?

2nd March 2006, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey_ivy

if you moved an open air filter to the front of the engine would it still be as loud?

i would of thought so matey

just buy a bmc

6th March 2006, 17:46

its not as loud but it sounds nicer! more of a crisp sound instead of the deep borrrrrre