Important! : NEWMAN PH3 Cams HELP

1. MonsterVTR Newbie Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 2002 Saxo VTR, Black and Green

   #1 27th October 2009, 14:11

   Hi,
   I have a 02 VTR and have done all the basic engine upgrades, Exhaust, 4-1 Manifold, Quickshift, BMC Induction, New Spark Plugs, Comp Ignition Leads, FSE Power Boost Valve, Piper Vernier Pulley and all the O.E stuff has been replaced such as Cam Belt, Radiator, CV Boots, Driveshaft, Water Pump, PS Pump ETC......So all is running smooth....BUT
   
   I want to fit a Newman PH3 Camshaft, but the *Kam Racing website states..
   
   *The Newmans PH3 camshaft is not suitable for VTR engines running the standard injection system. Aftermarket induction such as throttlebodies or bike carbs will be required.
   
   How do i modify my injection system to comply with the new camshafts and where can these injectors be purchsed....i take it will be aftermarket and that they meen bigger injectors...am i right ??????
2. MotorSportWorld L-plater Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 88

   #2 27th October 2009, 14:20

   Just fit cams that are designed for your injection system
   
   Those are to hot for the stock ECU to control properly. So although you will benefit from a increase in top end BHP, you will lose all drivability and low down torque so the car will be slower.
   
   If you fit a cam suited to your mods then you will have a better spread of power and torque so your car will be smoother and quicker. Win Win.
   
   I hope this explains.
   
   Kind Regards
   
   Garry
3. MonsterVTR Newbie Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 2002 Saxo VTR, Black and Green

   #3 27th October 2009, 14:36

   I can definatley see where your coming from...
   
   But i probably forgot to mention that after i have done the cams its having a ECU Re-map, does this mean the cams will be more suited to the car..?????
   
   Thanks
4. MotorSportWorld L-plater Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 88

   #4 27th October 2009, 14:56

   No. A remap is still only a stage one mod. So you need to marry all the stage one mods you have done to a Stage 1 cam to get the best results.
   
   If you over cam the engine you will loose lower down power and the car will go slower. It will seem quicker as the delivery of power will be peaky and you will have to rev the car hard to get it to go.
   
   If you fit throttle bodies, stand alone ECU and then fit some hot cams you would have an awesome car with the rest of your spec.
   
   Kind Regards
   
   Garry Curley
   MotorSportWorld - South
5. TU-Tuning Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2006 Bristol Posts: 16575 JP4urio, 306 DTurbo SportShed

   #5 27th October 2009, 15:04

   Some exaggerations here, youll definitely not loose all drivability half the people running uprated cams in TU'd daily drivers run the PH3s or the 708s. Obviously the powers moved up the rev range but that doesnt mean its undriveable day to day in the low RPM range. And when driven properly in the high RPM range it will be much more fun to drive
   
   Theyre meant to be the limit of road use cams, and are fine to use on the OEM TB after a decent remap or standalone.
   
   I know you know your shit dude as Ive seen youve even designed cams in the past, but the PH3s are definitely fine for day to day use
6. MonsterVTR Newbie Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 2002 Saxo VTR, Black and Green

   #6 27th October 2009, 15:18

   OK,
   So after hearing some of your suggestions i think i will go for New Throttle Body ( will this solve the injector issue ), Standalone ECU and the Newman PH3 Hot Cams.....
   
   So does anyone no where the best place for a new throttle body is..?
   
   Thanks
   
7. MotorSportWorld L-plater Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 88

   #7 27th October 2009, 15:23

   Yep i designed the cams and exhausts at Piper
   
   I know what you mean about drivability tho. Its also a personal thing. A bit like the sound of an exhaust.
   
   Have you driven an S2000 or Civic Type R. I personally find these pants as day to day cars as they have all the power at the top, and its just not useable on a day to day basis, yet i will conceed that they are bloody fun on track where you can use the power fully.
   
   If the OP is building a fast road car, i would still advise a milder cam, to get a more useable engine. It will be more fun, more of the time and i suspect it will keep up in a sprint with a car with the hotter cams in, because of the quicker pickup in power delivery.
   
   In an ideal world he could do well with driving 2 cars with both setups, and even against each other.
   
   Kind Regards
   
   Garry Curley
   MotorSportWorld - South
8. stupotvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 EDINBURGH Posts: 3143 BMW e36 328i sport

   #8 27th October 2009, 15:35

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by MonsterVTR OK, So after hearing some of your suggestions i think i will go for New Throttle Body ( will this solve the injector issue ), Standalone ECU and the Newman PH3 Hot Cams..... So does anyone no where the best place for a new throttle body is..? Thanks

   s2 rallye is advised I think try a scrappies
9. MonsterVTR Newbie Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 2002 Saxo VTR, Black and Green

   #9 27th October 2009, 16:34

   Hi,
   After much research i have found an S2 Rallye with an Inlet Manifold and Fuel Injectors, apparently you can use either for the Newman PH3 Camshaft but which one would be better to use...??????
   
   HELP...
10. MonsterVTR Newbie Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 2002 Saxo VTR, Black and Green

    #10 27th October 2009, 16:35

    Sorry forgot to mention it also has a Throttle Body spare so i can use that aswell....????
11. nickwillyhams Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2009 Stoke-on-Trent Posts: 247 2000 16v

    #11 27th October 2009, 19:28

    there on about throttle bodies not body, an there around £2000 for a new setup!?
12. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #12 27th October 2009, 19:38

    PH3 will run fine unmapped, gives a smooth idle too. Good breathing mods and the cam timing set up on the rolling road can offer 120bhp+ at the fly.
13. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #13 27th October 2009, 21:43

    ph3 is ok i had mine day to day and timed it spot on, other then a lumpy cold start its idles well, go for it mate, i have one for sale soon
14. user_34821 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 burton upon trent Posts: 232 57 C4 Coupe VTR+

    #14 29th October 2009, 18:18

    when are you thinking of selling you ph3 is it of vtr or vts ? im looking for one for my mk1 vtr