Few mods for a track day- please advise further...

9th November 2009, 20:54

Ok, so the ethic is:
Keep it cheap/ free, dont destroy the car.
Bit of weight saving, see if I can increase the performance.

Am I missing some obvious cheap/ free mods- take a look below.

So I have a week until the trackday and some of the things I will reverse back to standard, others will stay the same.

I have a fibreglass bonnet- got that on with some bonnet pins. I have put a riser in the middle rear to increase airflow and hopefully get a bit more heat out.

Fog lights were taken out a while ago.

Cheap induction kit- it improved the throttle response no end, but it certainly hasnt increased top end (can't figure out good materials/ route to get air from fog lights to get some colder air to intake)

My cat failed the MOT (exhaust cat- we have two dogs and neither need an mot) so I kept the old cat and got a £2 iron bar from B and Q and accidentally hit a hammer on the top over and over again, removing all the stuff from the inside of the cat. If I had given it as an exchange part it would have given me £15 but now its a decat pipe.

Spare wheel out, cage will be taken off as well as I have not used a spare for two years- if I am paranoid I put it in the boot.

Rear wiper and motor
The plastic from the inside of boot.
Boot damping
Under bonnet damping (as its the fibreglass bonnet)

I will take out the rear seats for the day and then stick them back in afterwards.

The sunroof bothers me with all that heavy glass on top but not sure I want to swap it for aluminium sheet incase I lose weatherproof quality!

Got some OZ Ultraleggeras, so fairly low on wheel weight

Going to get lowered at rear, some cheap springs at front (I know this requires a bit more thought but then budget could get hairy if you add shocks).

Acetone. My system is probably filthy inside and despite its corrosive qualities, acetone is an excellent cleaner in the right proportions and also raises the octane rating of fuel, avoiding knock. I am unconvinced either way as to whether reported gains exist or not- highly unlikely really but I am interested in the reduction of emissions and cleaning properties. If I can measure some mpg usefully, then I will. Anybody reading this should probably ignore this acetone section as its more confusing than it would first appear, with all sorts of bad science surrounding all sides. Anyway, I have two fuel filters. One to go on before adding the acetone which may well collect lots of gunk from the tank, then another to put on while having a quick look at the results of the first one!

Moving the battery-
Would be excellent to change the weight distribution- possibly by moving the battery to where a rear seat has been removed- if it was on the floor it would balance the car better and would be a little lower- is this worth it??

Power steering- If you take the motor off then you have to work against the fluid of the system- how easy would it be to disconnect the arm, take the motor off? Heavy old thing that power steering. If its a headache to disconnect the arm then it could be a nightmare, if its easy could be a brilliant weight saver.

9th November 2009, 21:11

great ideas there might give few o these ago my self
wat way u remove the cat and how u go about moving the battery

9th November 2009, 21:24

When you lower it, it'd be worth getting some decent springs, and some dampers, yeah, it'll push the budget up, but it'll help you out on track.

Taking the back seats out, i'd do that ASAP, you'll need time to adapt to the lack of weight over the back end, and if you push it straight away, you'll probably end up spinning.

Get a good set of tyres, they'll make a big difference.

9th November 2009, 21:28

Nice weight saving plans

Brakes will take a pounding on track mate, might be worth getting some better pads at the very least.

9th November 2009, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

When you lower it, it'd be worth getting some decent springs, and some dampers, yeah, it'll push the budget up, but it'll help you out on track.

Taking the back seats out, i'd do that ASAP, you'll need time to adapt to the lack of weight over the back end, and if you push it straight away, you'll probably end up spinning.

Get a good set of tyres, they'll make a big difference.

Yes, when I first took out the spare wheel the back end was really twitchy- now with the rear wiper and motor missing 2.5kg + rear seats (5-7 kg?) and the cage (1kg?) all at the back it could get weird.

I have some reasonable tyres on the front and rubbish on the back.

For next year I will budget for great tyres and do the lowering thing properly with good springs and dampers. Its the last track day of the year with nothing till next year plus I have another track car which is fairly insane but its a soft top kit car, its almost bound to rain and the last two track days I have ended up swapping up halfway through the day to the saxo as the kit car still needs a bit more work to make it perfect.

Great on the battery front to help the handling to extend some wires through for track days if I could do it fairly tidily.

Also, when on track days, the oil temp does seem to go right up to the top line- can i go for fully synthetic and ignore the temp, trusting the oil will be ok (good quality oil should withstand the grief and still work well)?

9th November 2009, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaXo_vtr123

Nice weight saving plans

Brakes will take a pounding on track mate, might be worth getting some better pads at the very least.

Somehow, the worst brake fade I ever had was being late, going up towards Northampton from the M40 where there are lots of high speed roundabouts and dual carriageways- making for long heavy braking- when I did this track I am going to in a week, they seemed ok (when I did it before), its shortish firm braking.

Sadly the only friend I am going with has a supercharged ariel atom, so however many changes I make I won't quite keep up.

9th November 2009, 21:45

Sorry, didnt really respond to your brakes there- yes, would help- anything you would advise from experience?

9th November 2009, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_Doe

Sorry, didnt really respond to your brakes there- yes, would help- anything you would advise from experience?

Havnt been on track myself (yet) but there are plenty of things you can do depending on how much your willing to spend - From just better pads to a full on 4 or 6 pot conversion costing £1000s

9th November 2009, 21:49

As said improve the brakeing.
I can supply braided lines.
Along with new fluid and uprated pads you will c a big differance

9th November 2009, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by natvts

great ideas there might give few o these ago my self
wat way u remove the cat and how u go about moving the battery

So the cat had failed MOT- so I got the old pipe with the cat intact,
hammered a long steel bar all the way through the honeycomb, did it again and again. After a while the holes were joining up and large chunks were falling out.

If I did it again I would do it outside with a dust mask on- the stuff coming out of there was terrible (it swore at a pensioner before crapping on the pavement).

Oh yes- any reccomendations for cheap springs- Kam racing sells Apex -50mm and Spax -40 within a similar price bracket- this is bearing in mind that better springs and shocks may well be put on next year.

9th November 2009, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampy

As said improve the brakeing.
I can supply braided lines.
Along with new fluid and uprated pads you will c a big differance

Ok, I can imagine how fluid and pads would change braking, are braided lines just 'nice' or are they functional too?

(Enters the potential minefield of spending 000's on a track car)

9th November 2009, 22:02

Braided lines are practical.
Due to the construction of them they improve the feel of the pedal.
Makeing it firmer and requiring less effort to get the same force exerted at the caliper.
This is done by reducing the balloning of the hose.

9th November 2009, 22:29

and finally- (just a wild thought which could be way off and I know nothing about spraying water systems)

many intercoolers have spray water jets to help keep the temp down for a denser air intake.

Could there be any benefit in spraying (using the wiper jets) water intentionally onto:
a) the filter, so that some water vapour was added to the intake- partly for cooling and partly for the water vapour system style bhp cheat

(i need somebody with some knowledge of how spray systems are used..?? is that as the water cant be compressed or that it helps the fuel in some way with drawing in more air with cooling... you can see how I have a knowledge gap there!! lol)

b) the induction tubing- purely for a bit of cooling as that pipe is gradually increasing to being 'warm' which cant be good when you are trying to get a cold air feed.

Not talking about a constant spray here, just something to 'aid' the temp slightly.

It also draws into question the temp of that induction pipe- could it be wrapped/ shielded?

9th November 2009, 22:33

(p.ps- could forced air induction at high speed be a pain in the arse as if you whacked 90mph air into a scoop direct into the manifold, the MAP sensor would read hardly any drop in pressure as the throttle is open and thus not deliver enough fuel... or maybe the lamda sensor would correct this)

Also- everybody should go on track days- they are lots of fun- you will understand when you do one!

9th November 2009, 22:53

Water injection on a n/a engine will give little or no benfit.
Certainly wont be as noticable as the way the car picks on a cold autmn day.
Cryo cooling the fuel lines may help but then your talking silly money, know a chap that has it on his skyline and has graphs with it turnd on and off.

9th November 2009, 22:57

some very useful tips here for a cheap track car ta guys

9th November 2009, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamer

some very useful tips here for a cheap track car ta guys

Yes, I cant stress enough havin been to a track day and damaged an engine on a more expensive car (not an expensive engine but i put an expensive car out of action) and having seen an M3 bmw do its clutch in... the saxo- especially cheap slightly dented mk1 vts are great bang for buck track day cars and at around £1000 (any mods can go on the next one!) you cant loose too much value by thrashing them around or you migt as well pick up another one!

Lots of fun- no cars coming the other way, only overtaking on straights, plenty of run off on the airfield days- well worth it. So far, I have been taking mine out almost totally standard just as a fill in for my other car and had more fun and less worry.

9th November 2009, 23:09

yes as soon as I have the money im going to et myself on a track day! i see how they get addictive

10th November 2009, 00:05

go on a diet yourself? If you have no harnesses what about this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...STRK:MEWAX:VRI

10th November 2009, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_Doe

So the cat had failed MOT- so I got the old pipe with the cat intact,
hammered a long steel bar all the way through the honeycomb, did it again and again. After a while the holes were joining up and large chunks were falling out.

If I did it again I would do it outside with a dust mask on- the stuff coming out of there was terrible (it swore at a pensioner before crapping on the pavement).

Oh yes- any reccomendations for cheap springs- Kam racing sells Apex -50mm and Spax -40 within a similar price bracket- this is bearing in mind that better springs and shocks may well be put on next year.

Whilst it will reduce exhaust restriction the hollow box may do some strange things to the pulse tuning of the exhaust and could actually decrease power if it has a negative effect on things, a bit of pipe in place of the box would be better.

Theres plenty of sound deadening under the carpet etc that can go in the bin.

Upper and lower strut braces

Good brand tyres Goodyear Eagle GDS-3s and Toyo R888 etc.

4 branch manifold, toyed with ecu, cams etc will gain a few bhp.

Standard vts brakes are pretty naff, if youve not cooked em on track your not driving it hard enough

uprated pads will help but to take some serious abuse gti-6 286mm ones are a good upgrade.

Polybush wishbones give a nice upgrade in feel.

Roll cage, decent saftey item and improves the stiffness of the shell no end.

Buckets and harnesses, its surprising how much easier it tis to drive on the limit when your not roaming around the standard seats on every corner.

Water jets cool the intercoolers but the water doesnt get into the inlet, Spraying it into the airfilter wouldnt see any performance gains

Depending on your driving style uprated shocks and a 24mm arb are nice addons.

10th November 2009, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanmt

Roll cage, decent saftey item and improves the stiffness of the shell no end.

Buckets and harnesses, its surprising how much easier it tis to drive on the limit when your not roaming around the standard seats on every corner.

best advice in here
i never have a standard drivers seat in my car for that very reason

and the cage well once youve hit a gravel trap sideways at 80mph you wont think twice about shelling out a few hundred quid on something as often overlooked as this
'oh i dont need a cage i wont be pushing that hard' is a misconception
i wasnt pushing it and i still manager 1 1/2 rolls and a piroette on the bonnet lol

saftey first then look at handeling good shocks and springs some sticky rubber and even as little as good discs/pads and fluid will gain performance

engine wise maybe look at an oil cooler if its overheating but the standard vts cooler is very good tbh
its only on highly strung engines you need coolers ect (mine overcools horribly atm i need to sort it and thats only with a 13 row cooler)

10th November 2009, 01:15

no need to chase power improvements.... only look for handling improvements as this allows you to carry more speed though the corners.....
24mm rear arb, rear dampers, faulkner 155lb front springs, mintex 1144 pads for std. VTS caliper should be fine, r888's, cage, buckets and harnesses..... DONE

10th November 2009, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_Doe

I have some reasonable tyres on the front and rubbish on the back.

I'd recommend swapping them round, if you've got good tyres on the front, you're more likely to end up pushing more than the backs can grip, meaning you're more likely to spin. Whereas if the good tyres are on the back, and you push to the limits of the rubbish ones, you can back off a bit to counter the understeer, knowing you're still within the limits of the rears.

And a decent brake upgrade is something else i'd recommend, I managed to cook a set of VTS calipers within a few laps at Cadwell, but the 266mm setup fairs much better.

What track are you heading off to?

10th November 2009, 09:22

It really does depend on how much your willing to spend mate.

10th November 2009, 09:23

Its an airfield circuit called Colerne- been there before, the circuit is pretty smooth (for an airfield) (only £99 and its on Monday).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGDDqevZiRc

Titchster, I see you point but there is so much more weight and work going on at the front- if the car was much more evenly balanced then that might be an idea- of course, much more sensible to get great tyres all round. Thats where the 'no budget as its one track day at the end of the year' thing comes in.

Ryanmt- Yes, will be interesting to see about the dodgy exhaust mod there!! As long as its better than having a cat then it will fit the bill on this occassion.

Piggy, indeed, mine is currently standard and looks like its on stilts, even if it were just sat down a bit and on good rubber then it would be a great improvement.

Overall, the next things after my cheepy odd mods are R888's on front (switch my good fronts to rear). Do something useful to brakes (discs are a bit worn, rear pads will just survive, so in need of upgrade anyway). Get a bit more serious about the ride/springs, dampers etc. The biggest mod is my driving as I got some instruction near the end of the last day I went on. I have learnt a lot but not got it into practice yet. The most interesting thing was the instructor had 'launched' the saxo when it came out (dont know what that means) anyway, he knew lots about the car including its passive steering at the rear and in high speed long corners he carried loads of speed accelerating to use the rear wheels more which turned the car... or rather it made the car turn itself. It was a real eye opener- accelerate to put rear down to help in the corner... so it was cornering better and faster! You have to have a bit of road width to really get using that (well, when learning anyway) so really looking forward to more track time.

There has been some really useful comments on here for anybody with a road car which could get a bit tracky- keep em coming.

10th November 2009, 09:28

i go through bathford everyday, thats atleast an extra 1hp.

theres a few saxo in ransomes trowbridge, you maybe able to find some parts there ie brakes, lowering springs (where they'll be any good is anyones guess)

10th November 2009, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie

i go through bathford everyday, thats atleast an extra 1hp.

theres a few saxo in ransomes trowbridge, you maybe able to find some parts there ie brakes, lowering springs (where they'll be any good is anyones guess)

Ooh- asbo saxo's! I will go and have a look.