Pro's & Con's of Converting a VTR to a VTS.

  1. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #1
    So what are they for the people who have done this. What should i think about before i go ahead and do this?

    First things first ive rang the insurance company and everything is good to go. Next thing is, is to find a decent enough engine, which ive got my eyes on one. But because im converting from a VTR to a VTS (T reg engines, '98) the cambelt needs to be changed, wheres the water pump held? When i had my cambelt changed they said to do the water pump aswell to make things easier... so do i need to do the VTS's engine's water pump to? How do i check just to make sure im not buying a faulty engine? Obviously ill need proof of service history.

    What about ECU? Wiring Looms? And the Immobiliser? What else am i missing that i should be aware of?

    Sorry just comming out in one hit here... as youve probably guess i know sod all about engines, i just read up on here and take notes.

    If any of you have done your conversion id like to hear what you thought about it.

    Thanks
  2. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #2
    havnt done the conversion personally, but:

    PROS:

    More power
    Double the valves
    More tuning potential

    CONS:

    Less MPG
    Higher insurance
    Purchasing actual engine and loom etc?


    There are plenty of threads with more info on the actual conversion if searched for
  3. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #3
    Yea ive searched many of times mate. I know what i need its just what happens if i put everything in then the engine doesnt turn on, or the ECU needs unlocking or the engines got to come out to replace something. Just want to make things right in my head before i go splashing money on a engine and getting someone to fit it.

    I gather what i do need is:

    Engine 1998 MK1
    Ecu 1998 MK1
    MK1 engine Loom
    Manifold? Would my exhaust have to be customized to fit a VTS manifold?
    Something to do with immobiliser?
    Anything else im missing?

    Cheers
  4. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #4
    pros its no longer a girly 8v.



    read the FAQ for a conversion guide
  5. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #5
    you would need to run a fuel return line, manifold and need a new throttle cable. its piss easy to fit the engine though
  6. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 Liverpool Posts: 7393 Black Corsa C SRi
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom View Post
    you would need to run a fuel return line, manifold and need a new throttle cable. its piss easy to fit the engine though
    i thought early blacktops already had a return line? either way it really is an easy conversion, all the mounts are in place and current exhaust will fit vts mani fine
  7. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LeeM View Post
    i thought early blacktops already had a return line? either way it really is an easy conversion, all the mounts are in place and current exhaust will fit vts mani fine
    t reg isnt black top though
  8. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 Liverpool Posts: 7393 Black Corsa C SRi
    #8
    ah sorry, i read 98 reg
  9. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #9
    the big pro for me was that I knew I had a sound car to start with and had looked after things! And that it taught me about the car a lot and meant that I now had confidence to fix things as a when they broke/before. Saving me A LOT of labour costs !!

    Plus mine began to need a clutch, and cambelt doing etc. So worked out would be easier to upgrade the engine at the same time!!
  10. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #10
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    the big pro for me was that I knew I had a sound car to start with and had looked after things! And that it taught me about the car a lot and meant that I now had confidence to fix things as a when they broke/before. Saving me A LOT of labour costs !!

    Plus mine began to need a clutch, and cambelt doing etc. So worked out would be easier to upgrade the engine at the same time!!
    Yea mate i agree 100%, its getting to know that the engine ill be putting in is a sound engine, the guy says the owner looked after it and had it serviced when it was supposed to be, plus cambelt changed etc. But who knows until i actually fire it up. I just want this done right.
  11. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by machevelli7777 View Post
    Yea mate i agree 100%, its getting to know that the engine ill be putting in is a sound engine, the guy says the owner looked after it and had it serviced when it was supposed to be, plus cambelt changed etc. But who knows until i actually fire it up. I just want this done right.
    Yeh, looking back one thing I wish I did was change the headgasket. I changed the following whilst I had the engine on the stand and fitting:

    Cambelt,
    Idlers,
    WaterPump
    Alternator Belt,
    Thermostat,
    Spark Plugs
    Fuel Filter
    Oil Filter
    Oil
    Fresh coolant
    New gearbox fluid
    Gearbox oil seals
    Clutch
    New throttle cable
    New engine mounts

    Doing this means there's very little to go wrong - just wish I'd have added a headgasket to that. Car's done me reasonably well over the past 10-15k (only the waterpump seizing causing the cambelt to slip a couple of teeth)

    Just means you know it's healthy and won;t need major attention for a little while + a lot of the above parts are so much easier to replace with the engine out !!
  12. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2003 United Kingdom (England) Posts: 7064
    #12
    A good idea is to fit a S box.

    Also consider resale, selling a converted car can be more difficult.

    It could work out easier/cheaper to buy a Vts.
  13. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    Yeh, looking back one thing I wish I did was change the headgasket. I changed the following whilst I had the engine on the stand and fitting:

    Cambelt,
    Idlers,
    WaterPump
    Alternator Belt,
    Thermostat,
    Spark Plugs
    Fuel Filter
    Oil Filter
    Oil
    Fresh coolant
    New gearbox fluid
    Gearbox oil seals
    Clutch
    New throttle cable
    New engine mounts

    Doing this means there's very little to go wrong - just wish I'd have added a headgasket to that. Car's done me reasonably well over the past 10-15k (only the waterpump seizing causing the cambelt to slip a couple of teeth)

    Just means you know it's healthy and won;t need major attention for a little while + a lot of the above parts are so much easier to replace with the engine out !!
    Are the parts expensive? I was hoping not to spend more than 500 to be honest. Is the headgasket expensive to do?

    Cheers
  14. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quick View Post
    A good idea is to fit a S box.

    Also consider resale, selling a converted car can be more difficult.

    It could work out easier/cheaper to buy a Vts.
    Its not cheaper mate, i know what your saying but its not. Ive done so much modding to the car, id hate to do it all again.

    Plus ill just keep the car until she dies tbh, plus i gota look to the future, never know what lays ahead.
  15. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by machevelli7777 View Post
    Are the parts expensive? I was hoping not to spend more than 500 to be honest. Is the headgasket expensive to do?

    Cheers
    Parts aren't too bad if you buy sensibly.

    Like headgasket and headbolts from Citroen are £45 and £22 respectively.
    And is easy to do whilst your changing the cambelt and new alternator belt. (non oem kit around £70 & alt belt around £10)

    So for about £150 you've got a new cambelt & idlers on there and new headgasket.

    Fluids come to around £50 maybe.

    Waterpump £60 from Citroen - and you're almost there tbh.

    Ass in an engine, loom etc. and maybe clutch and you're at your £500.
    1 user thanked this post:
  16. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #16
    Thanks for your help mate.

    I have a mechanic in mind at the moment, just makes me wonder... if i knew someone had done this before they could tell me what would need replacing or what would be good to replace. I could just give them the car and give them the go ahead to do what needed to be done, meaning ordering bits from citroen etc etc. That would be the easiest and make problems less after things are done.

    Best thing i could do is just buy everything i need over a period and go from there, what ya think?

    Cheers
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 Liverpool Posts: 7393 Black Corsa C SRi
    #17
    if youre paying someone to do it youre gonna end up spending more than it'll cost to just sell up and buy a vts
  18. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LeeM View Post
    if youre paying someone to do it youre gonna end up spending more than it'll cost to just sell up and buy a vts
    Well i certainly wont be spending 2k on fitting engine lol Its cheaper not to buy a VTS thats why im doing it.
  19. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 Liverpool Posts: 7393 Black Corsa C SRi
    #19
    yeah but when you buy a vts you can sell your vtr for a similar price
  20. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #20
    Yeh, I'd keep your eye out for bits. Like I've seem brand new bits going on here and eBay for half the price. I'd try and fit as many new bits as you can afford. New radiator, clutch etc

    If you need and advice feel free to pm me - I'm by no means and expert but have done engine conversions for people so got a bit of an idea.
  21. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504
    #21
    pro's: you now have a real engine
  22. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #22
    Taking everything out of the car isnt what i want to do mate, id have to find a standard exhaust, id have to get the lowering done on the new car, take lights out and find standard ones, plus i can sell my 44k VTR engine (if all goes well) and get good dough for it. In the outcome i think it will be alot cheaper.
  23. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    Yeh, I'd keep your eye out for bits. Like I've seem brand new bits going on here and eBay for half the price. I'd try and fit as many new bits as you can afford. New radiator, clutch etc

    If you need and advice feel free to pm me - I'm by no means and expert but have done engine conversions for people so got a bit of an idea.
    I will do bud thanks, i dont think ill be doing it for a while yet, but i know VTS engines etc will be hard to buy sometime soons so hopefully in the next 6 months should all be done.

    Dont fancy doing mine do ya? Heh!
  24. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ashleyp View Post
    pro's: you now have a real engine
    When i get a scooby then ill be saying i have a real engine
  25. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by machevelli7777 View Post
    I will do bud thanks, i dont think ill be doing it for a while yet, but i know VTS engines etc will be hard to buy sometime soons so hopefully in the next 6 months should all be done.

    Dont fancy doing mine do ya? Heh!
    If you were closer I'd give you a hand doing it - I'm not free until July really.

    Just search on here for any questions, if no luck then pop a thread up.
  26. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #26
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    If you were closer I'd give you a hand doing it - I'm not free until July really.

    Just search on here for any questions, if no luck then pop a thread up.
    Yea i will do, need a printer to print all this. Bookmarking each page too.

    Thanks again
  27. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 Liverpool Posts: 7393 Black Corsa C SRi
    #27
    sparco_tom does conversions, i think he charges around £250.
  28. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2008 Southampton Posts: 4839 16v'd White Furio & MK5 Golf R32
    #28
    I had to think of the pro's and cons when doing this on my Furio. It makes more sense to sell up and buy a vts imo, but what made me do the conversion was due to how much I had already spent on my furio and the fact that I had it looking just how I wanted. This is what made the decision for me. I'm pleased now, looking back. Always expect things to go wrong, and then if they don't happy days. Also, make sure you do the fuel return the proper way - don't block it off!

    James.
  29. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s
    #29
    Do you need to ring blue haws before sending your ecu off to them??
  30. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #30
    Yes, or how will they know why it's on their doorstep!
  31. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 EDINBURGH Posts: 3143 BMW e36 328i sport
    #31
    It all depends on how well it's converted my pal and a mate did a 106 quicksilver to gti conversion and it turnned out horrible. They didn't change enough parts that should of been swapped and cut corners. I drove it and the clutch was pish and the accelerator was either open full or shut and the whole build quality fellt shoddy. It ended up breking a valve

    It didn't put me off though I got mine done properly by a reputable company last month and it has had a few wee niggling problems but the garage are sorting them out now and people that have seen the job say they wouldn't know it was a covnerted car. Maybe think about a jp4 engine though as it's getting harder to find low millage J4s
  32. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #32
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stupotvtr View Post
    It all depends on how well it's converted my pal and a mate did a 106 quicksilver to gti conversion and it turnned out horrible. They didn't change enough parts that should of been swapped and cut corners. I drove it and the clutch was pish and the accelerator was either open full or shut and the whole build quality fellt shoddy. It ended up breking a valve

    It didn't put me off though I got mine done properly by a reputable company last month and it has had a few wee niggling problems but the garage are sorting them out now and people that have seen the job say they wouldn't know it was a covnerted car. Maybe think about a jp4 engine though as it's getting harder to find low millage J4s
    Yea id rather get it done from a reputable company tbh mate, if anything goes wrong then i know where to go back. Did you have to pay any more extras for those problems you had? I mean i take it it was there doing and not yours? Plus where di you get your engine from? And is the J4's a VTS engine just in mechanical terms lol?

    Cheers
  33. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #33
    The thing is it'll cost you a lot of £££ getting it done at a company.

    If you do it yourself you'll have the knowledge to fix the little teething problems you'll have. I'm just anti paying £1k for getting the conversion done when You could probably do it in a day with an engine crane and a mate.
  34. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    The thing is it'll cost you a lot of £££ getting it done at a company.

    If you do it yourself you'll have the knowledge to fix the little teething problems you'll have. I'm just anti paying £1k for getting the conversion done when You could probably do it in a day with an engine crane and a mate.
    Yea i understand that mate thanks, just i have to give the insurance company confirmation that the engine was done by a garage, its swervable but...

    I want to get my mechanic who does my servicing like i said before but i dont know if hell do it right mate. Maybe im just worrying about it too much. I mean my car its absolutely spotless atm, nothing wrong with it whatsoever, then i go and throw and VTS engine in and i get lots of problems. Do you think a known mobile mechanic would know how to plum and fuel line in etc?
  35. Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 Doncaster Posts: 749 vtr - 16v conversion y0!
    #35
    i did mine myself and i dont claim to be a machanic......imho there are no cons,its easy mate,any machanicaly minded person can do this easy aslong as you get an engine from the same year etc,unless you buy a rubish abused engine you should have no problems,although i do need a new set of injectors as it turns out lol

    as for the return thats nice and easy too,if your close to me i could give you a hand.....
  36. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #36
    urm, should be able to. Someone off here could do it no problem at all.

    What insurance company you going with?

    I'm with Adrian Flux and all they needed was me to fill in a form detailing all the modifications and who fitted them (me) and the new engine number etc. and that was the last I heard of it.

    It depends really, as it would be nice to just drop it at a garage and pick it up all done - but £1k lighter.

    Whereas doing it yourself is a mission, but is rewarding when it's done and means you don't need to spend a fortune on it !
  37. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #37
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djadzvtr View Post
    i did mine myself and i dont claim to be a machanic......imho there are no cons,its easy mate,any machanicaly minded person can do this easy aslong as you get an engine from the same year etc,unless you buy a rubish abused engine you should have no problems,although i do need a new set of injectors as it turns out lol

    as for the return thats nice and easy too,if your close to me i could give you a hand.....
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    urm, should be able to. Someone off here could do it no problem at all.

    What insurance company you going with?

    I'm with Adrian Flux and all they needed was me to fill in a form detailing all the modifications and who fitted them (me) and the new engine number etc. and that was the last I heard of it.

    It depends really, as it would be nice to just drop it at a garage and pick it up all done - but £1k lighter.

    Whereas doing it yourself is a mission, but is rewarding when it's done and means you don't need to spend a fortune on it !
    Thanks guys and ouch dont think those injectors are cheap heh!

    I wouldnt do it tbh mate, i really dont have patience and i wouldnt know what im looking at or even where to start. Ill have a chat with my mechanic tomorrow see what he says. Does it cost much to get your ECU unlocked?

    Thanks again
  38. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #38
    £60 on here
  39. Established Member Joined: Jan 2007 Little Wymondley Posts: 1063 VTR MK1 (SOLD)
    #39
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    £60 on here
    Thats not bad. Just checked ebay, there was one on there just sold for 249 68k on clock, very clean, missed it...
  40. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s
    #40
    I fitted mine with a mate whos got a good knowledge and also put a new engine in his 1.8t golf mk4 himself. Its in just not connected up but someone i know has told me if i need any help to give him a buzz who seems to really know what hes doing.