bhp,?

14th February 2006, 02:39

can any1 tell me arround whot bhp im running at,its got a fourbranch,full stainless steel system,and a pipercross,

one day chip and camed

14th February 2006, 02:40

and one day it will be camed and chiped it was ment to say,sos

14th February 2006, 02:41

is it the 90 or 98bhp model vtr?

14th February 2006, 02:43

its the 98bhp, look at the headlights

at a guess, 300 bhp!

well not quite, but i would say with the cams and chipped, about 125-130bhp. only a guess though

14th February 2006, 02:45

probably about 104 bhp

14th February 2006, 02:46

you should get the bmc induction kit i had that pipersross sounded gooood but scraficed the sound for the performance i can felt the difference straight away

14th February 2006, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo26

its the 98bhp, look at the headlights

at a guess, 300 bhp!

well not quite, but i would say with the cams and chipped, about 125-130bhp. only a guess though

didnt realise headlights made it faster lol

some early 2000 mk2s had 90bhp engines, thats why i asked.

14th February 2006, 02:51

I'd say it was 90brake, so therefore its probably running just under 100brake at the moment

14th February 2006, 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick2403

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo26

its the 98bhp, look at the headlights

at a guess, 300 bhp!

well not quite, but i would say with the cams and chipped, about 125-130bhp. only a guess though

didnt realise headlights made it faster lol

some early 2000 mk2s had 90bhp engines, thats why i asked.

how can you tell if an early one has a 90bhp engine? i have a 2000 vtr

14th February 2006, 02:53

cant see his ecu to tell, engine looks a bit different to mine his oil dip stick is on other side

so possibly 90bhp

14th February 2006, 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo26

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick2403

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo26

its the 98bhp, look at the headlights

at a guess, 300 bhp!

well not quite, but i would say with the cams and chipped, about 125-130bhp. only a guess though

didnt realise headlights made it faster lol

some early 2000 mk2s had 90bhp engines, thats why i asked.

how can you tell if an early one has a 90bhp engine? i have a 2000 vtr

how many plugs are on your ecu 1 or 3

14th February 2006, 02:54

better not be 90bhp or they can take it back!

Edit:

how can i tell, i dont know much about the ecu

14th February 2006, 02:56

give em what for!!

14th February 2006, 02:58

does it look like this with 3 plugs

14th February 2006, 02:58

will do!

stupid question, but where is the ecu?

how can i check the 1 or 3 wire thingy!

EDIT: il check now

14th February 2006, 02:59

see above i answered your unasked question

14th February 2006, 03:00

so u saing its the 90bhp standard one

14th February 2006, 03:01

mine has one big connector

whats that mean?

14th February 2006, 03:02

its a v reg one if that helps

14th February 2006, 03:03

think your both on 90bhp

14th February 2006, 03:06

gutted

14th February 2006, 03:07

im really gutted!

if i was to get one of those later ecus would it make a difference of is it the internal stuff?

it is a X reg, late 2000

14th February 2006, 03:15

you would need more than just an ecu..i.e loom transponder...bla bla....

14th February 2006, 03:16

I think that is the 90bhp, I had a 98bhp VTR and after looking at that first picture there are some differences to mine...

14th February 2006, 03:17

get your self a Flux Capacitor

14th February 2006, 04:24

I agree with joe, your probably just under or around 100bhp.

15th February 2006, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by citroenaxgtr

probably about 104 bhp

if it was 98bhp id be pretty pissed if id bought a straight through stainless steel system, a 4 branch and a filter and only got 6bhp! id say with the mods you got your probs lookin at +10% power increase!

15th February 2006, 19:00

hint: 3 plugs dont have ecu covers, that one does so single plug ie 90bhp. But a manifold and open filter will not give 10% increase

15th February 2006, 21:19

i have the 90bhp vtr and a wouldn be so worred ave beat a good few 98bhp ones

15th February 2006, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

hint: 3 plugs dont have ecu covers, that one does so single plug ie 90bhp. But a manifold and open filter will not give 10% increase

i thought they had a stainless steel straight through aswell?

15th February 2006, 22:30

what does?

90bhp and 98 are pretty much the same on performance because of the emissions stuff

16th February 2006, 00:56

S4XO's vtr!

16th February 2006, 01:02

no saxos dont come with stainless steel exhaust as std

16th February 2006, 01:06

no i know that obviously. i wasn't in the plastercine class at school lol.

i thought he said it in the first post of this topic that its one of the mods hes got along with the manifold and piper-x

16th February 2006, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by s4xo

can any1 tell me arround whot bhp im running at,its got a fourbranch,full stainless steel system,and a pipercross,

one day chip and camed

Plastercine manyou are correct

16th February 2006, 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

hint: 3 plugs dont have ecu covers, that one does so single plug ie 90bhp. But a manifold and open filter will not give 10% increase

not true mate, my 2001 furio has 3 plugs no cover (as yet) and my mate has a vtr 2000 and his does have cover

16th February 2006, 16:41

cover could hav easily bn put on after the car woz bought tho?????

16th February 2006, 17:24

and is his a 3 plug though? as the 3 plugs didnt come with covers (and if its the same as the one above then hes put it on afterwards) as Welshsaxo said.

16th February 2006, 17:42

mines a 97 vtr one plug ecu not got a cover.....but enough about the cover the dip stick is in the wrong place for it to be a 98bhp model its 90bhp if the person that sold it to you said otherwise take it back and ask for an x reg that was made around november 2000 not just registered then

16th February 2006, 18:34

SPENCER6 WROTE.
if it was 98bhp id be pretty pissed if id bought a straight through stainless steel system, a 4 branch and a filter and only got 6bhp! id say with the mods you got your probs lookin at +10% power increase!

how much gains go you think you are gonna get from these silly little mods?...if you want a decent increase get a cam and re-map...maybe a turbo charger!..
you get what you pay for!.

16th February 2006, 23:41

ma vtr is a 51 plate and it has a ecu cover

17th February 2006, 00:56

the saxo in question is proberly running anywhere between 100bhp - 110bhp.

if the cat has been removed this will obviously increase the power to nearer the 110bhp.

17th February 2006, 00:59

^^obviously your wrong because a cat does not sap much power, so as for getting 10bhp its only a small engine, there isnt that much to gain by just swapping parts on standard cam.

17th February 2006, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

^^obviously your wrong because a cat does not sap much power, so as for getting 10bhp its only a small engine, there isnt that much to gain by just swapping parts on standard cam.

a VTR with an air filter & an exhaust system (possibly no cat) will be running between 100 - 110bhp... are you saying this statement is incorrect!?

mine was!? & shes a 90bhp model. given all results are individual & 10bhp is alot of scope... an 8v 1.6 engine will respond well to breathing mods...

17th February 2006, 13:35

yes im saying thats incorrect, 90bhp at the fly, your telling me you got 20bhp from an air filter and exhaust? are you mad? the std airbox on a car is not very restrictive, infact its better than any of this after market stuff (as it doesnt allow in hot air), the only downside to this system is it doesnt allow enough cold air in at speed, so getting a system that allows this gives gains (but not 10bhp)

And an exhaust, the standard exahust is almost impossible to improve on, only way around it is to get a one without the cat that has all the boxes in the right place ie BTB, without it the gas harmonics get screwed and you lose the scavanging effect, gain = 0. However the BTB bore is too large for a NA car, but will show a gain but not as much as if it was the right bore.

You will gain a little bit from a complete set of mods ie enclosed (good one) filter, decat (better replacing it with an expansion box but thats more than £50 and everyone wants power for little money which never happens) and 4-2-1 for acceleration, or 4-1 for top speed, but not 20bhp, if you got 10 for all of those you have done well.

17th February 2006, 13:36

oh and the rule of thumb is for every 10 degrees in temp drop you gain 3% in power (or something like that) so unless your inlet temps are sub zero your not gonna gain more than a few bhp.

17th February 2006, 15:13

+− General
Production: 19 Oct 1999 until 01 Dec 2003
Length: 3718 mm
Width: 1595 mm
Height: 1360 mm
Weight: 920 kg
Fuel Delivery: Multi point fuel injection
Transmission: Manual
Gears: 5 Speed

+− Performance
Engine Size: 1587 cc
Cylinders: 4
0-60 mph: 9.1 s
Power Output: 100 bhp
Valves: 8
Torque: 100 lb/ft
Top Speed: 120 mph

+− Practicality
Unbraked Towing Weight: 700 Kg
Braked Towing Weight: 700 Kg
Wheelbase: 2385 mm
Luggage Capacity: 280 litres
TurningCircle: 10 m
Fuel Capacity: 45 litres
Noise levels: 72 dB

+− Costs
MPG: 42
Insurance Group: 7
Euro Emissions Standard: 3
CO2 Emissions: 159 g/km

+− Road Tax (VED)
Full Year: £125
Half Year: £68
Band: B

all this spec from parkers for standard vtr 99 e spec till 2003 i know the spec can varey hope this can help

17th February 2006, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

yes im saying thats incorrect, 90bhp at the fly, your telling me you got 20bhp from an air filter and exhaust? are you mad? the std airbox on a car is not very restrictive, infact its better than any of this after market stuff (as it doesnt allow in hot air), the only downside to this system is it doesnt allow enough cold air in at speed, so getting a system that allows this gives gains (but not 10bhp)

And an exhaust, the standard exahust is almost impossible to improve on, only way around it is to get a one without the cat that has all the boxes in the right place ie BTB, without it the gas harmonics get screwed and you lose the scavanging effect, gain = 0. However the BTB bore is too large for a NA car, but will show a gain but not as much as if it was the right bore.

You will gain a little bit from a complete set of mods ie enclosed (good one) filter, decat (better replacing it with an expansion box but thats more than £50 and everyone wants power for little money which never happens) and 4-2-1 for acceleration, or 4-1 for top speed, but not 20bhp, if you got 10 for all of those you have done well.

At Power Engineering is stated 110bhp & 110lbs/ft.
mods were a Pipercrosss open filter with cold air feed, exhaust no cat & just a small booster + back box obviously, manifold was standard, that was on 195-45-15s. i have the print out laminated!

17th February 2006, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestyVTR

At Power Engineering is stated 110bhp & 110lbs/ft.
mods were a Pipercrosss open filter with cold air feed, exhaust no cat & just a small booster + back box obviously, manifold was standard, that was on 195-45-15s. i have the print out laminated!

then they are wrong there is just no way you can gain 20bhp from those mods

17th February 2006, 20:10

Im not saying ive gained 20bhp! thats just what the car was... it was proberly a lil more than 90bhp to start with anyhow, & on a cold day i really dont think those figures are far fetched! i had 4 runs in total, 3 & 4 were very closly matched.

Power Engineerings rollers are well known & very profesional. they have done alot of proper work on cars e.g the 1.8 focus that is Turbod, Supercharged with No2....! They set the whole thing up & finished it off.

17th February 2006, 20:15

ask for wheel figures or post your wheel figure, flywheel are guestimates by the machine and the RR operator, you cannot get an accurate fly figure without taking the engine out.

17th February 2006, 20:17

i will get a pic & try & get it up sum how... i cant get it onto the pc unless sum1 could do it for me...

17th February 2006, 20:27

does it mention wheel figures on your graph?

17th February 2006, 21:13

just the graph!

i dont have it to hand at the mo, i will check & report bk! lol

17th February 2006, 23:15

in recon im just arround 105bhp,

17th February 2006, 23:53

From those mods listed on pg1 i wouldnt say you were over 100bhp.

18th February 2006, 02:32

come on everyone knows you can gain at least 15-20bhp by just celotaping a 20p resistor in!

its even says so on the ebay ad! lol

18th February 2006, 02:39

COLOR=RED]if it was 98bhp id be pretty pissed if id bought a straight through stainless steel system, a 4 branch and a filter and only got 6bhp! id say with the mods you got your probs lookin at +10% power increase! </font>

yeah but its been found out its a 90bhp model, there for it hes got just under 100 then thats bout a 10% increase![

18th February 2006, 14:19

bang on matey!

18th February 2006, 16:54

why would you be pissed? your all living in a dream world if you think you get all this power from simple bolt on mods, 10% from taking out the cat and changing the filter, do you think the standard stuff is that bad? its better than this other stuff you replace it with lol

18th February 2006, 17:15

its questionable that the OE airbox, is better than a BMC!

10bhp can be done with no cat, full exhaust & a decent filter! Not on all engines tho as every1 is individual ie wear & tear etc etc... sum may see a 5bhp increase others a lil more....

its all down the the individual car!

18th February 2006, 19:58

no its not, your into the sales patter, the standard stuff is very well designed, the cat is the only place you will get a gain and that will be small, a decent panel filter and a better cold air ducting on the standard airbox will give more gains than any bolt on filter.

18th February 2006, 22:09

that was a quote, i wasnt sayin id be pissed off if i didnt get good figures

18th February 2006, 22:17

take it to a rolling road and find out

but then people will argue that the figure is wrong

18th February 2006, 23:11

Generally what Ratty is saying is true, but the car manufacturers have to meet stringent emissions regs and ensure a decent engine life so sometimes (depending on the part in question) comprises have to be made - thus after market part manufacturers can ignore the the emissions stuff and engineer their parts for performance.

18th February 2006, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesslevtr

take it to a rolling road and find out

but then people will argue that the figure is wrong

if its quoted at the fly then it is wrong, quote at the wheels where the power is actually measured and used

19th February 2006, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

no its not, your into the sales patter, the standard stuff is very well designed, the cat is the only place you will get a gain and that will be small, a decent panel filter and a better cold air ducting on the standard airbox will give more gains than any bolt on filter.

I understand alot of Comapanys just have your pants down yes! The standard stuff is thought through, as youd expect there is a process of development, yes. The BMC is a better filter than the standard one though, open filters are questionable as they are open, heat soak etc etc but a decent enclosed filter is better than the standard OE filter system, changing the filter & the basic design yourself constitutes a different system, yes? thats wot the enclosed filters are! all vary in performance but on the whole you get wot u pay for.

i can see where your coming from, and alot of the OE is hard to improve on.

still looking for that dam RR print out lol

19th February 2006, 16:50

the std system is an enclosed system, the only downside as mentioned is the cold air feed and the filter element, change that for a high flow and a better cold air ducting and it will out perform the other enclosed (welcome to the world of modifying) unles the std stuff is REALLY restrictive which on a saxo its not.

carry out

19th February 2006, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

the std system is an enclosed system, the only downside as mentioned is the cold air feed and the filter element, change that for a high flow and a better cold air ducting and it will out perform the other enclosed (welcome to the world of modifying) unles the std stuff is REALLY restrictive which on a saxo its not.

carry out

thats what im sayin if you change the filter then the ducting, its a new system! revised sum may say.... thats y the BMC is better than the OE!

19th February 2006, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestyVTR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

the std system is an enclosed system, the only downside as mentioned is the cold air feed and the filter element, change that for a high flow and a better cold air ducting and it will out perform the other enclosed (welcome to the world of modifying) unles the std stuff is REALLY restrictive which on a saxo its not.

carry out

thats what im sayin if you change the filter then the ducting, its a new system! revised sum may say.... thats y the BMC is better than the OE!

yeah but why spend 150 quid or how ever much on a bmc when you can spend a few quid on some duct and a better filter element if your gonna get the same sort of results?

19th February 2006, 18:01

and by putting an open air filter on your car you are inafect loosing power due to the hot air being sucked in?

19th February 2006, 19:50

ching ching ten points SteVTR

19th February 2006, 23:23

how mutch do u think i can get for this car, its only done 44k

20th February 2006, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo26

and by putting an open air filter on your car you are inafect loosing power due to the hot air being sucked in?

cheers for that!

Ratty im still a fan of the BMC over the "revised OE" idea, sorry squire. I complety understand wot ur saying and its correct i know, but in this case id still rather have a BMC. I feel it makes sense that the flow of air goes straight through, excellerated on the way, into the engine asap. this is wot happends... before u go on about heat soak in the ductin

mine isnt just the usual crap you get

so that is kept to a minimum, the filter is as far away as possible from the engine too...

20th February 2006, 12:25

i wasnt saying the bmc is crap mate i was saying its not far better than the standard system, which is most peoples general perseption of these things, its easily the best aftermarket enclosed kit but with a few simple mods to the std stuff you can save yourself alot of dosh and have a system that is equal if not better.

20th February 2006, 14:25

The best way to modify is to see wot you got, as its not crap, the company has developed it for good reasons! see if you can improve wots there... if not, then look at wot you can buy to improve it, with out getting your pants pulled down & spanked! I agree wiv ur points totally.

20th February 2006, 14:45

the only problem with the bmc is its universal and not car specific

20th February 2006, 16:20

true! It was developed with Audo & VW for the lemans... but works well on the sax, by far the best filter ive aver bought.