Help car not starting after lowering :S

17th November 2009, 13:27

well im mega confused by my frenchie , fitted a gearbox new crank everything u should do when doing a box , drove it to my new house fine.

anyways car sat for about a month or 2 and i decided to lower it all round.

obviously the battery died hard so i charged it over night just been down to try turn it over and she wont start.

i can still hear the pump prime on iginition battery is full so its trying quite hard to start but i dont think shes sparking ? but i dont really know how to check the sparks on a coil pack , is it just a case of taking the pack out with the plugs in and firing them against the rockers ? like u would with leads ? but it may not be a spark issue as i cant tell if im wrong or not , it could be something ive over looked , i thought perhaps there could be a rocking vavle or something silly ive upset the balance of from lowering. really stumped any help would be much appreciated cuz ive got a deadline to move her before shes towed

17th November 2009, 13:29

its a vts (well gti) same ting

17th November 2009, 14:01

anyone ? its gotta be something stupid >.<

17th November 2009, 14:24

take the spark plug out and if you got big ball plug it into the HT cap and turn the car over whils holding it you will be in for a nice shock if they are working lol

17th November 2009, 14:53

Been back outside playing around got some jump leads on it which made it try alot harder but still no joy.

dont fancy sparking myself with the plug tbh.

17th November 2009, 17:31

have you hit the cut of switch that sits next to the passenger top mount

17th November 2009, 18:14

nope unfortunatly not did check that it wasnt pushed in just out of curiosity is it just like an on off switch ?

17th November 2009, 18:59

That is strange, Very strange Everything I'd of checked you've checked... Are your plugs wet? If they're Wet then you have no spark because if it was sparking it'd have started... If they're Dry you have a fuel problem.

17th November 2009, 19:02

is it turning over??

17th November 2009, 19:30

Yeah shes turns over fine. im thinking maybe my batterys toast as when jumping the car it tried really hard to start alot more solid turnover than without (obviously more power etc) could be an earth maybe ? but dont see why that would stop a spark but still dont know if spark is problem or not. Had a gurantee on my battery so just got a new calcuim battery which ill try in the morning but still clueless.

17th November 2009, 19:33

Are your plugs wet with Petrol?

17th November 2009, 19:41

had a similar prob with a furio, was dodgy connection to crank sensor, may have not gone back on properly after box change and worked loose?

17th November 2009, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandyslover70

had a similar prob with a furio, was dodgy connection to crank sensor, may have not gone back on properly after box change and worked loose?

That's a good idea it could be that, If plugs are wet things point to this.

17th November 2009, 19:47

loool nothing to do with the lowering
this happend to me it would turn over but not start
you need a new battery

17th November 2009, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoiRacer

loool nothing to do with the lowering
this happend to me it would turn over but not start
you need a new battery

If it dosen't start with Jump Leads it won't be due to the Battrey.

17th November 2009, 19:53

yeah i have checked the crank new sensor ,bracket and bolt all in place

i have a new battery now but going to wait till morning to try that but i dont really think thats the issue as if its a grounding problem dont want it to nail this battery lol will defo check the plugs arent wet with water or petrol in morning and will update here im pretty sure there gonna be dry tho , my fuel isnt exactly high but it just out the red , was thinking maybe lowering has changed angle of the tank and might not be picking up? but then surely the needle would reflect that ?

ill love saxp u guys actually reply w00t !

17th November 2009, 19:57

i know nothing ive done in lowering would affect engine starting but thats just when it happened

gonna check the fuel pressure, plugs and grounds in the morning scrtaching my head hard >.<

17th November 2009, 19:57

i should say tripple check

as i have already but there ya go

17th November 2009, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

yeah i have checked the crank new sensor ,bracket and bolt all in place

i have a new battery now but going to wait till morning to try that but i dont really think thats the issue as if its a grounding problem dont want it to nail this battery lol will defo check the plugs arent wet with water or petrol in morning and will update here im pretty sure there gonna be dry tho , my fuel isnt exactly high but it just out the red , was thinking maybe lowering has changed angle of the tank and might not be picking up? but then surely the needle would reflect that ?

ill love saxp u guys actually reply w00t !

Always here to help!

You want the Plugs to be wet (With Petrol) that's good it means you're getting fuel through, there for should start if you have sparks

17th November 2009, 20:05

ah i see what u mean lol yeah thats true wet means spark problem / dry means fuel

i just remebered last time i gunked my engine the plugs didnt like the water around the top of them lol thought thats what u were getting at

17th November 2009, 20:11

Ohhh right lol, Well it'll be intresting to find out what the problem actually is. My Money's on fuel problem from what you've Explaind.

Take your plugs out, if they're dry fill the tank a bit then see what happens for a start

As long as your fuel pump is buzzing and priming then you know your Fues hasn't blown.

17th November 2009, 20:18

yeah i still hear her prime

its wierd when i was powering her off the beema shes turned so muich better but after like 2 seconds of turning and pumping the pedal it starts to struggle and the lights dim , is this just cuz my batterys mega low ? i thought whilst connected to another car the state of my battery wasnt really important as the other motor was supplying the juice ? im so tempted to go fit this battery now lol but its boltic outside.

17th November 2009, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

yeah i still hear her prime

its wierd when i was powering her off the beema shes turned so muich better but after like 2 seconds of turning and pumping the pedal it starts to struggle and the lights dim , is this just cuz my batterys mega low ? i thought whilst connected to another car the state of my battery wasnt really important as the other motor was supplying the juice ? im so tempted to go fit this battery now lol but its boltic outside.

Yeah your battrey dosen't matter as the other car is acting as the Battrey, have you checked your oil? Dose it have enough oil?

Bit strange it struggles after a few seconds

17th November 2009, 20:25

yeah plenty of oil did all fluids recently yeah stranges that it sturggles which makes me think ground

i might make a vid to post so u can all see whats happening properly

17th November 2009, 20:25

struggling sounds like its trying to start like fuel starvation on no spark. check your injectors mate. take the injectors out but leave plugged in and turn it over and see if there actually letting fuel out

17th November 2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Yeah your battrey dosen't matter as the other car is acting as the Battrey, have you checked your oil? Dose it have enough oil?

Bit strange it struggles after a few seconds

not entirely true, if the battery on the car is really low then it will drain charge out of the jump battery when you try and crank it.

17th November 2009, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandyslover70

not entirely true, if the battery on the car is really low then it will drain charge out of the jump battery when you try and crank it.

Not if the other car is running though surely?

I've never had that if the other car is running thus putting power straight to the car

17th November 2009, 20:48

you dont need to have a battery to jump and run the car tho u can just put jumpers onto the ground cabling and live on the starter and fire it off the other car with no battery

and if cranking with a low batt does drain the jumping vechile then surely when i start up and try it the jumping vechiles headlights would dim ?

17th November 2009, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

you dont need to have a battery to jump and run the car tho u can just put jumpers onto the ground cabling and live on the starter and fire it off the other car with no battery

and if cranking with a low batt does drain the jumping vechile then surely when i start up and try it the jumping vechiles headlights would dim ?

As long as the car you're jumping from is running you're fine in that aspect

17th November 2009, 20:54

yeah i thought so well ill be back in the morning with updates

17th November 2009, 20:54

cheers guys

17th November 2009, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

cheers guys

You're Welcome

17th November 2009, 22:27

sounds imobilised to me..

17th November 2009, 22:45

let us know if it was the battery

18th November 2009, 12:39

Right fitted the new battery which is a hell of alot better than the one i had no more dimming or anything so that pretty much rules out the electrical/earth fault i thought it was.

so then i decided to get the plug out

Which was dry as a bone smelt slightly of fuel in the cylinders , im thinking maybe my fuel gauge is speaking shit and doesnt actually have enough fuel but gotta wait till friday now to get paid so i can get some and see grrrr.

18th November 2009, 14:41

bump

18th November 2009, 14:57

why are you bumping mate? like you said, you have to get some fuel put in her and then see what happens from there

18th November 2009, 17:04

I found i had a blown fuse but i cant find my hand book to actually tell what it does. its a 20amp tho anyways when i was trying to start her earlier i couldnt remember hearing the pump so tryied again and had no noise , but am i right in saying if its already primed u turn the car off then on again it doesnt always reprime if u do it quickly?

and i did replace the fuse.

18th November 2009, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

I found i had a blown fuse but i cant find my hand book to actually tell what it does. its a 20amp tho anyways when i was trying to start her earlier i couldnt remember hearing the pump so tryied again and had no noise , but am i right in saying if its already primed u turn the car off then on again it doesnt always reprime if u do it quickly?

and i did replace the fuse.

Fuel pumps are normaly 15/20amp, Fuel pump fuel will be on the right hand line of fuses under the Bonet.

But if you replaced it anyways it don't matter

Did you get it running in the end then?

18th November 2009, 18:15

No still not running i need to go down and try again but was waiting to see if anyone new about

Quote:

if its already primed u turn the car off then on again it doesnt always reprime if u do it quickly and the car will still start?

18th November 2009, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

No still not running i need to go down and try again but was waiting to see if anyone new about

If you turn the key on and it primes, then you turn it off and straight on it won't prime. After about 5-10 seconds of turning the key off it should prime when you turn it on.

18th November 2009, 18:26

ahwell it not priming now i better check the fuses under the hood. damn car

18th November 2009, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

ahwell it not priming now i better check the fuses under the hood. damn car

Yeah check all them fuses, make sure they're seated right then see what happens, does your fuel guage change a lot? Mine seems to go down when I put my foot down, like 1/4 of a tank... I know my car runs rich but now that rich surely.... I'm thinking yours might not be right and you might have no petrol in your tank

... Along with a dodgy Fuse.

18th November 2009, 18:46

just want to say you dont have to electrocute your self to test the spark plug jsut dangle it near some where metal and you will see the spark

18th November 2009, 20:32

well i finally found my owners manual and found out the fuse that blew is for : Radio/Central Locking/Engine immobiliser/alarm/instrutment panel clock/courtsey light.

But i didnt notice any of the other things listed unfunctional but i do not have a stereo anyway. But this must have been a recent blowing of the fuses as it worked before , i just tried to start the car again but no joy.

As it was the immobiliser fuse does this mean i need to disconnect the battery for 30 mins and try again ? or is that not a cure for this ?

18th November 2009, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

well i finally found my owners manual and found out the fuse that blew is for : Radio/Central Locking/Engine immobiliser/alarm/instrutment panel clock/courtsey light.

But i didnt notice any of the other things listed unfunctional but i do not have a stereo anyway. But this must have been a recent blowing of the fuses as it worked before , i just tried to start the car again but no joy.

As it was the immobiliser fuse does this mean i need to disconnect the battery for 30 mins and try again ? or is that not a cure for this ?

You can do that, but turn your key and see at the bottom of your dash, does a little orange key flash or come at at all? That'll tell you in the Immobiliser is on or not

18th November 2009, 20:39

no unfortuantly not its in a 97 106 gti

18th November 2009, 20:39

well if it does ive never senn it >.>

18th November 2009, 20:41

did you ever try putting more fuel in it ?

18th November 2009, 20:41

Haha well, top your tank up and see if it starts then, if not take the negetive off your Battrey for 10mins, then try. If your fuel pump primes, you might be in luck then mate

18th November 2009, 21:08

Will try disconnecting for 10 mins in the morning but the pump primed maybe ecu needs a reset will be putting more fuel in her friday morning im just mega broke waiting for payday >.<

18th November 2009, 21:33

Awww Damn, few days 'til the end of the month too. O well keep us updated if it starts mate, I'm intrested haha

19th November 2009, 13:53

update

well managed to get more fuel, can hear the pump priming again now but shes still wont start, so im still at square one lol , have disconnected the battery again thinking maybe the immobiliser could be the issue ? but no one can tell me how the car immobilises itself >.<

19th November 2009, 15:47

right another update some kind man gave me a can of easy start which we sprayed into the inlet which gave us a few pumps and it made like it wanted to start, which i believe means i do have a fuel related issue. The tank is half full and the pump primes but no start ?

19th November 2009, 16:02

Is the pump delivering a high enough pressure?

19th November 2009, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoFurio1988

Is the pump delivering a high enough pressure?

i think that is the issue with my vtr mate, sometimes i have to engage the starter a couple of times to make the pump prime a couple of times before my car will start

is this down to the pump?

19th November 2009, 16:16

im not really sure how id go about testing the pressume tbh is it easy todo ?

19th November 2009, 16:17

pressure would mean a split hose possibly ? ive checked around the fuel filter and felt around the tank but havent felt anything but again not 100% sure were im looking never had to learn about fuel issues before

19th November 2009, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-C

i think that is the issue with my vtr mate, sometimes i have to engage the starter a couple of times to make the pump prime a couple of times before my car will start is this down to the pump?

It could well be. The pump needs to maintain constant pressure, so if the pressure drops then you got problems. Get a hold of a multimeter and test the readin across the pump.

19th November 2009, 16:26

it sounds like the immobiliser is cutting in IMO

19th November 2009, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoFurio1988

It could well be. The pump needs to maintain constant pressure, so if the pressure drops then you got problems. Get a hold of a multimeter and test the readin across the pump.

(sorry to hi-jack thread) is it supposed to be a constant 12v feed mate? when i turn my car over it starts then cuts out... and i have to engage the starter then stop then do it again so it primes a couple of times then i start the car and it will run fine it stays started once it is started

also last night there was 1 point where i couldnt rev up to more than 4k it went fast up untill 4k then would struggle to go any further... but seems fine now?

19th November 2009, 16:38

Sounds like urs has a intermitant fault with the pump.

How do i turn off the immobilisers then ive pissed around with the found and the button by the ignition.

i was told the immobiliser works by cutting the coilpack. tho and if that is the case surely it wouldnt of tried to fire up on the easy start ?

19th November 2009, 16:51

immobiliser cuts off fuel pump but if you hear it then the immobiliser is off

also yeah even if it was coil pack it wouldnt have fired

19th November 2009, 17:04

Just phoned my local pug as they love my problems lol they said immo cuts spark.

Pump wont arm twice in a row u have to wait like 15 seconds or so.

19th November 2009, 17:11

yeah they all do that mate once it has primed it wont prime again straight away

with my car i have to engage the starter motor then stop then do the same again 2 or 3 times then turn the key to start the car

when you disengage the starter it primes again then once i turn the key after that it will start

thats why i think my problem is that its not pressurising properly

19th November 2009, 17:28

yeah i think u got a pressure problem too mate.

doesnt matter how many times i unlock lock turn keys it just dosnt start.

19th November 2009, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

yeah i think u got a pressure problem too mate.

doesnt matter how many times i unlock lock turn keys it just dosnt start.

O dear, still not starting ay?

A quick easy way to see if it wants to start is to get a bottle, one you can squeese and out some Petrol in it... Then take your air filter off and squirt some petrol into the air intake... Then turn her over, if you do have spark it will start for a few seconds... That way you know you definetly have a fuel problem.

19th November 2009, 18:04

Yeah thats a good idea saves buying easy start

but nope still no joy.

im thinking of ripping out the immo black box and transponder ring and fitting an unlocked ecu. but concerned about making things worse lol

19th November 2009, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

Yeah thats a good idea saves buying easy start

but nope still no joy.

im thinking of ripping out the immo black box and transponder ring and fitting an unlocked ecu. but concerned about making things worse lol

Your car should work, Unless there's something you haven't seen or explained I can't think why it's not starting. If it dosen't start with pertol in the intake then you obviously have a spark problem, but you say it's fired a few times?

How old are the plugs? Because if the immobeliser is actevated you will have a light on on your dash to tell you about it.

19th November 2009, 18:18

I consulted my handbook my models too early no key or light on dash for me.

Im gonna bite the bullet a rip my ecu out plug in the unlocked one and remove the box and ring and see what happens i guess fed up now. can see this getting expensive if this doesnt fix it.

19th November 2009, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

I consulted my handbook my models too early no key or light on dash for me.

Im gonna bite the bullet a rip my ecu out plug in the unlocked one and remove the box and ring and see what happens i guess fed up now. can see this getting expensive if this doesnt fix it.

Ehh, shame... Well good luck to ya mate, hope you get it working soon, post an update too if ya get the time

19th November 2009, 18:25

Yeah i will do mate been suspended from work too on full pay so got plenty of time 2mrw to get at it

19th November 2009, 18:26

That's the way forward lol

19th November 2009, 22:38

yeah praying im not getting fired lol

19th November 2009, 22:39

Haha lol You don't want that during these times mate!

20th November 2009, 09:43

typical its pissing it down today how longs it take to get that box ring and ecu out cuz im gonna get soaked lol

20th November 2009, 13:22

right ive taken out the black immo box removed the transponder ring from the barrel and fitted a unlocked ecu but no joy. sick to the teeth with this no one can work out whats wrong had a few peeps look at it now. starting to hate the car.

20th November 2009, 13:33

Got a mate bringing something from work he said he can plug it to the car and itll give him codes so hopefully this should identify the problem hopefully. but gotta get the damn car moved as housing association are trying to get it towed had to tell someone were to go this morning and im not even their tenant i rent private bastards.

ill update with fault codes later

20th November 2009, 16:24

if you have taken the gearbox off...isnt there an earth strap that you might have missed? was it working absolutely fine before you did it? check the crank and knock sensors you might have tapped one of them by accident

20th November 2009, 16:59

Ive driven it since hte gearbox change mate

20th November 2009, 17:00

She was a runner but after 2 months of sitting shes now no go.

20th November 2009, 17:39

I have one of them tools, it'll give you Fault codes but sometimes it'll say things are good when they're clearly not.

So it won't start after an ECU change? I thought it wasn't to do with that... Have you checked the plugs for sparks?

20th November 2009, 17:46

Well it tired to fire off the can of easy start so theres gotta be a spark there. yeah would be good if u have the codes etc he borrowed it from work think its a proper job. just gotta wait another hour booooooooo

20th November 2009, 17:47

Yeah i didnt think it was tod with ecu but atleast now i have a unlocked one fitted and have removed the black box and ring around the barrel

20th November 2009, 17:52

Yeah, If it fired from Easy Start then you obviously have a fuel problem it can't be getting through to your Cylinders.

Ummm try to start it, then take a plug out and see if it's wet, if it's dry like I've said before it's not getting through thus your problem.

If it's wet... stick some petrol in the intake and see if that fires it up... If not your car's got a ghost! Lol =/

20th November 2009, 17:55

Haha i think it has several ghost lol , plugs before easy start were dry , which suggested fuel

but pump primes and other than that i know shit all todo with fueling, any decent ways to check its flowin' ?

20th November 2009, 17:58

Well you can do what I did when I come across a problem like this... It's maybe not the best way but I took the fuel pipe from the Infector and then primed it... That will tell you if you have any blocks in your pipe going from your Tank to the Injection. And also it might be worth looking at your Fuel filter because that might be blocked

20th November 2009, 17:59

Been watching this thread, sorry to hear about your problem, I have no idea how to fix it but will be very intresting to find out

Good luck with it!!! Hope you fix it soon.

20th November 2009, 18:11

Cheers guys where abouts do i unplug the fuel then mate im guessing thats fuel rail and injectors under the throttlebodie housing.? a pipe of there ? but what one lol

20th November 2009, 18:13

That's a good question, it might be Different on your Engine to mine. How many pipes are there?

20th November 2009, 18:19

bahjesus i really dunno without looking man im clueless to the fuel lines etc. i know theres a pipe come from the end of the rail near the injector on the left but dunno if its fuel

20th November 2009, 18:22

Well take it off and turn the key to prime, it won't do any harm if it isn't the fuel pipe, as long as you don't try to start it. If fuel comes out it's obviously the right pipe. On the other hand it could be the right one but blocked haha but try that, then search Google. I'll look for you in a sec if you like.

20th November 2009, 18:37

Okey. You should have two pipes on your fuel Rail. One in and one out. The Top one should be in, but take Both off and Fuel can only come out of one.

20th November 2009, 18:40

when u say top do u mean either end of the rail ? so i dont need to crank it just let the pump prime and that should be enough to feed through.? any pics at all?

20th November 2009, 18:42

Yes, one either side... The thing I read said top and bottom but one either side sounds right. No don't crank it just turn it on so it primes and Fuel "Should" Come out of one pipe.

20th November 2009, 18:52

I'll be back later mate to see if you had any luck

20th November 2009, 20:13

Right pulled the fuel line off at the injector plenty there. still stumped and code machine aint working lol think possibly its a ignition relay anyone know where to locate it.?

21st November 2009, 11:42

Under the Fuse Box on the right of your Engine Bay.

22nd November 2009, 20:25

No luck yet then I take it?

24th January 2010, 09:58

Lost my internet for some time still havent got this car running. such joy lol

26th January 2010, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

Lost my internet for some time still havent got this car running. such joy lol

i had the same problem , put it in a garage and it was the fuel pump

stick it in a garage , i got stressed out over nothing in the end

26th January 2010, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLIE-SAXOVTS

i had the same problem , put it in a garage and it was the fuel pump

stick it in a garage , i got stressed out over nothing in the end

pumps been checked and is fine unfortunatly.

26th January 2010, 19:02

hi SpeedFreakGTi,

have you tryed a new crank sensor? i had the same problem with one i was working on for a friend and i worked out it was the crank sensor! soon as i put the new one on started right up

can you hear it try and fire mabe once or twice and mabe at the wrong times?

27th January 2010, 17:10

wierd

27th January 2010, 17:17

might actually be a lazy starter i had this prblem i tryed a starter and it started straight away

27th January 2010, 21:30

New starter please read thread before posting also crank checked aswell.

27th January 2010, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

New starter please read thread before posting also crank checked aswell.

so you did no replace it? how did you check it?

5th February 2010, 16:55

took one off my girls working gti....

5th February 2010, 21:31

Shame it's still not working mate....

6th February 2010, 00:33

Tried bumping it?

6th February 2010, 13:50

It would seem as though your jumping ahead of yourself mate. You need to remember the triangle, air - fuel - spark. If one these is missing it wont run and clearly that is the case.

So firstly have you checked you have a spark on all cylinders, you can check this by taking the plugs out, resting them on the rocker cover (so there earthed) then get someone to crank it while you watch.

Then you need to check that you have fuel, you can do this by cranking it then take the plugs out and see if there wet and is an obvious smell of fuel.

Its highly unlikely that you have a problem getting air in to your engine from what you've said.

Most problems are normaly quite simple but you need to find out exactly what is missing in the triange, at the moment your just having a stab in the dark.

Post your findings in detail and then we can go from there.

7th February 2010, 19:45

yeah done the triangle everythings there it trys to fire off easy start its either fuel or immo

im just gonna go down the new engine route

7th February 2010, 23:27

have you taken the rocker cover off to check the cam shaft is still intact? may sound very unlikely but i have seen a snapped cam shaft on a nova and that stoped it from starting as it was not opening the valves!

10th February 2010, 09:28

could a mod close this please.

11th February 2010, 00:09

nice to see you appreciate the suggestions