Gearbox: Stiff Gearing and Whining

1. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

   #1 19th November 2009, 08:43

   Hi all.
   
   Had a "rebuilt" S1 Rallye box fitted to my car this weekend. Initially it felt very tight but was going wel..
   
   However of late, its become very hard to put into all gears. Also when you put it into reverse it sometimes doesnt "catch". When it eventually does and I want to get it out of reverse its MEGA stiff and really really hard to get out of reverse.
   
   Also it whines quite bad in most gears.
   
   AND! When the clutch is depressed its quite notchy and noisy. This noise goes when the clutch is pressed.
   
   
   Any ideas where I should be looking? I think that the box is a dud, but could it be anything else? Just to note. I've had new gear linkages fitted and a new clutch.
2. Predator_R32p Super Moderator Joined: Mar 2003 Durham (England) Posts: 37932 1. AX 2. Mk2 Saxo VTR 3. MK4 R32 DBP

   #2 19th November 2009, 08:46

   Could be a dodgy release bearing mate, they tend to make a noise when the clutch is up and a dont when the clutch is depressed
   
   sometimes the plastic melts around the bearing, did you get a new one in if so what make??
3. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

   #3 19th November 2009, 08:50

   Yep its a new one Pred. Came with the new clutch. The clutch is a LUX one.
4. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

   #4 19th November 2009, 08:51

   You mean LUK clutch, basically a Valeo.
5. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

   #5 19th November 2009, 08:52

   Sorry typo.
6. Predator_R32p Super Moderator Joined: Mar 2003 Durham (England) Posts: 37932 1. AX 2. Mk2 Saxo VTR 3. MK4 R32 DBP

   #6 19th November 2009, 08:54

   get the car up and rotate the driveshaft on passenger side and listen for any whining noises
7. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

   #7 19th November 2009, 08:56

   The release bearing may not be rattling just, being a bit noisy some sometimes that can happen.
   
   The box, its hard to tell, has it been whining since you put it on? What sort of mileage have you done?
   
   Could be the clutch needs a little adjusting, where's the pedal sat atm in relation to the brake pedal?
8. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

   #8 19th November 2009, 08:57

   Will do. I was hoping this box and clutch would cure my transmission issues.
9. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

   #9 19th November 2009, 08:59

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by bytor The release bearing may not be rattling just, being a bit noisy some sometimes that can happen. The box, its hard to tell, has it been whining since you put it on? What sort of mileage have you done? Could be the clutch needs a little adjusting, where's the pedal sat atm in relation to the brake pedal?

   Cool.
   
   Well the box has only seen 100 miles if that upon fitting.
   
   The clutch pedal sits in line I think, but its very soft compared to before.
10. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #10 19th November 2009, 09:02

    Sounds very similar to my box before Pug1Off fixed it. Input shaft bearing was pooped.
11. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #11 19th November 2009, 09:06

    The box's seem to have a slight whine regardless. However if its excessive then that could point to a problem.
    
    In terms of it being hard to change gear, its unlikely its anything to do with inside the box (properly rebuilt ), with new syncro's etc. Its hard to tell without seeing it.
    
    I'd try and take it for some long drives, back roads and motorways and see how it all is after a few hundred miles.
12. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #12 19th November 2009, 09:12

    Im guessing the input shaft is what feeds into engine? Darn.
    
    I need this fixing asap really
    
    Cheers for the insight guys.
13. Predator_R32p Super Moderator Joined: Mar 2003 Durham (England) Posts: 37932 1. AX 2. Mk2 Saxo VTR 3. MK4 R32 DBP

    #13 19th November 2009, 09:22

    yeah mae the input shaft is what you see when the box is off the car with the splines, basiclly transfers the engine power into the gear box and then into the driveshaft
    
    could well be weak but id as said wait for a few more hundred miles and see what its like then
14. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #14 19th November 2009, 09:26

    Cool. Will do just that. Thing is I come to junctions and the box refuses to go into gear. So I have to really force it which feels terrible. Also holding up traffic lol. Not a good thing at all.
15. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #15 19th November 2009, 10:00

    I found with mine it would stick in gear, like 1st or reverse when left for a few hours.
16. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #16 19th November 2009, 10:04

    Dave how much did Pug1off charge to look at and sort the input shaft bearing issue?
17. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #17 19th November 2009, 10:46

    Tricky one Rush, as the car was in bits at the time, so labour was dramatically reduced. You need to bell them for a quote.
18. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #18 19th November 2009, 16:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 Dave how much did Pug1off charge to look at and sort the input shaft bearing issue?

    Is a gearbox apart job to replace the bearing unfortunately.
19. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #19 19th November 2009, 16:23

    
    
    
20. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #20 19th November 2009, 16:31

    NP Dave.
    
    Cool snaps Ross. Hmmm, I personally feel its the box causing the problems. But thats an assumption. Feel like getting the whole lot redone when Im back after this work trip
21. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #21 19th November 2009, 16:33

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 NP Dave. Cool snaps Ross. Hmmm, I personally feel its the box causing the problems. But thats an assumption. Feel like getting the whole lot redone when Im back after this work trip

    No problemo - just helps to try and show what potentially is wrong and what your getting for your ££££ if you get it swapped over.

    1 user thanked this post: rushy_23
22. Predator_R32p Super Moderator Joined: Mar 2003 Durham (England) Posts: 37932 1. AX 2. Mk2 Saxo VTR 3. MK4 R32 DBP

    #22 19th November 2009, 16:45

    Mines a bit of a bugger to get into first gear rushy mate, tbh i think its a bit like reverse have to wait tilrevs drop and 5 seconds before putting it in, bit of a pain but i think its normal on any 106/saxo
23. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #23 19th November 2009, 16:51

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Predator_VTR Mines a bit of a bugger to get into first gear rushy mate, tbh i think its a bit like reverse have to wait tilrevs drop and 5 seconds before putting it in, bit of a pain but i think its normal on any 106/saxo

    Stationary all gears refuse my might hand
    
    My original GTI box from the car was "perfect" not even crunching in reverse. I was a fool to sell it.
    
    The way the car is I wouldnt dare take it on track as I will totally miss downshifts and end up braking with the engine coasting.
    
    Cant stress how bad it is atm Pred
24. Krys_23 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6543

    #24 19th November 2009, 17:02

    My vtr box is the same there has been a strange whine coming from the car for a while, Not affecting the power but kind of annoying. Must drop a 1400 box in it
25. gavin_t Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Southend, essex Posts: 2079 1999 mk2 VTS EP3 2004 civic type r

    #25 19th November 2009, 18:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 NP Dave. Cool snaps Ross. Hmmm, I personally feel its the box causing the problems. But thats an assumption. Feel like getting the whole lot redone when Im back after this work trip

    
    
    
    I share your pain mate
    
    
    Just bought a "rebuilt" S2 rallye box with a quaife and it whines like fuck
    
    Paying good money for it and then forking out to get it fitted is not a good thing
26. user_30728 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2009 st.austell Posts: 2549 106 quiksilver

    #26 19th November 2009, 19:32

    how much would it roughly cost to get a new input shaft bearing put in? i've been quoted around 200 quid!!!
27. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #27 19th November 2009, 19:44

    I'd say £100 to £200 depending on if your getting anything else fitted/if parts are included in the price.
28. hitman_bridger Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2009 gillingham Posts: 286 punto hgt & vts

    #28 19th November 2009, 21:11

    im having similar problems too. mine is in the garage now gettin sorted. gonna cost me around £300 for parts and labour
29. gavin_t Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Southend, essex Posts: 2079 1999 mk2 VTS EP3 2004 civic type r

    #29 19th November 2009, 21:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jambmx91 how much would it roughly cost to get a new input shaft bearing put in? i've been quoted around 200 quid!!!

    
    That include removing and refitting the box? Id say thats pritty good
30. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #30 22nd November 2009, 19:54

    Just to update, the box now 90% refuses to go into 1st gear
    
    Need to whole setup relooking at..
31. Predator_R32p Super Moderator Joined: Mar 2003 Durham (England) Posts: 37932 1. AX 2. Mk2 Saxo VTR 3. MK4 R32 DBP

    #31 22nd November 2009, 19:57

    Not having much look tbh, who did you buy it off??
32. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #32 22nd November 2009, 20:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 Just to update, the box now 90% refuses to go into 1st gear Need to whole setup relooking at..

    If the other gears shift fine I think it's safe to rule out the clutch.
    
    1st and 2nd are on the same synchro so how is shifting into 2nd? It Could be the 1st gear synchro ring, or maybe something selector fork related/linkage related?
33. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #33 22nd November 2009, 20:18

    Its actually all gears saying that. Its just much worse with 1st and second. Reverse is hard to get in then so stiff to get it out.
34. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #34 22nd November 2009, 20:19

    Could be a clutch problem?
    
    Where's the biting point? Right at the bottom?
35. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #35 22nd November 2009, 20:25

    rushy, you should of txt me your issues.
    
    you "might" need the clutch cable adjusting. also, it sounds like the input bearing is not well, ive had this problem with my gearbox. then they fitted an "uprated" one and it was fine.
    
    if you want i can have a look and help you diagnose the problem?
36. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #36 22nd November 2009, 20:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dannygti rushy, you should of txt me your issues. you "might" need the clutch cable adjusting. also, it sounds like the input bearing is not well, ive had this problem with my gearbox. then they fitted an "uprated" one and it was fine. if you want i can have a look and help you diagnose the problem?

    Hey Danny.
    
    This thread isnt a dig at your work mate you know me better than this!.. Anyhow I did text you on the night you texted me but you didnt reply?
    
    I feel the box is funked as the clutch and linkages feel fine.
37. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #37 22nd November 2009, 20:41

    SUppose either way it's a box off job if it's clutch or gearbox - could have a look at the clutch cable adjustment?
    
    When I fitted my box with a new clutch it shredded the release bearing within about 20mins, nothing I could have done. It made selecting gears near impossible as just meant clutch cable was out of being 'adjusted' properly
    
    Feel bad for you mate if it's the box
38. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #38 22nd November 2009, 20:46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Predator_VTR Not having much look tbh, who did you buy it off??

    Some dude off Rallye Reg. He threw up pics of the build with reciepts. Risky as every 2nd buy out there I guess.
    
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz Could be a clutch problem? Where's the biting point? Right at the bottom?

    The clutch bites fairly low, but pretty much the same as it did on the old box. The clutch is quite light however.
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz SUppose either way it's a box off job if it's clutch or gearbox - could have a look at the clutch cable adjustment? When I fitted my box with a new clutch it shredded the release bearing within about 20mins, nothing I could have done. It made selecting gears near impossible as just meant clutch cable was out off being 'adjusted' properly Feel bad for you mate if it's the box

    Do you just tighten/loosen the nut on the end of the clutch arm for this?
    
    Hmm. Cheers for all the insight Ross. Ouch, sounds a nightmare!
39. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #39 22nd November 2009, 20:51

    Yeh you loosen/tighten the nut on the end to adjust the clutch.
    
    Yeh, clutch and a release bearing went straight back to eurocarparts for a full refund, was a Luk one. I ordered a Valeo one and they sent me a Luk :s won't make that mistake again! Helix for me next
40. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #40 22nd November 2009, 20:52

    Cool, will give that a go now.
    
    Damn man, possibly my LUK one was a bad buy? Helix one worth it you reckon?
41. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #41 22nd November 2009, 20:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 Hey Danny. This thread isnt a dig at your work mate you know me better than this!.. Anyhow I did text you on the night you texted me but you didnt reply? I feel the box is funked as the clutch and linkages feel fine.

    i know mate, dont worry bout that.
    
    well like i said, if you want me to have a look i dont mind. i will probably have more of a clue with whats wrong also, with no disrespect to of course..
42. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #42 22nd November 2009, 20:58

    Will drop you a text dude. Im going away in 2 weeks thats the main issue.
43. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #43 22nd November 2009, 21:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 Cool, will give that a go now. Damn man, possibly my LUK one was a bad buy? Helix one worth it you reckon?

    I dno bout LUK not really heard about anyone else fitting one.
    
    I'm only looking at a helix one for some reliability once I've got the new engine built, it should have a few more torques
44. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #44 22nd November 2009, 22:52

    Will read up on them and see peoples views.
45. user_38198 Established Member Joined: Oct 2009 West Mids Posts: 1847 Peugeot 106 1.1

    #45 23rd November 2009, 18:25

    My 106 1.1 is really difficult to get into 1st and reverse. In reverse, the lights come on but its just resting on the outside of the gear because if you bring the clutch up it grinds. Takes about 3 or 4 goes to get in reverse. Pain in the arse tbh back to neutral clutch out then in again. 1st also takes the piss-have to be doing about 0.1mph before it will go in.
    
    Dont know whether it needs a new linkage or gearbox oil. Only done 30k on 03 plate as well
46. hitman_bridger Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2009 gillingham Posts: 286 punto hgt & vts

    #46 25th December 2009, 21:34

    if you want a reconditioned box have look for black diamond. cost me £225 plus my old box