how stiff?

22nd November 2009, 13:32

currently got the faulkner springs from kam racing, and b8s on front and back... i just don't think there stiff enough i want them alot stiffer tbh! what do you reconmend? also find my car oversteers slightly what does that mean ? i need stiffer front or rear?

cheers guys!

22nd November 2009, 13:48

iirc oversteer would broadly mean the rear is stiffer than the front.

So you currently have 155lb up front - if it oversteers slightly then could maybe try some 180lbx250mm faulkners upfront?

22nd November 2009, 13:50

ok raunch whats the max you would reccomend on the b8s on the front if i need to go stiffer on front? i also want to stay at - 45mm

22nd November 2009, 13:50

I would probably say it's oversteering because it's wet and you don't know how to drive

22nd November 2009, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy-Boy

ok raunch whats the max you would reccomend on the b8s on the front if i need to go stiffer on front? i also want to stay at - 45mm

I'm not sure what B8's would handle really, I'd guess that maybe 180lb would be getting close to it? Could try 200lb? Remember it'll be hard to try and retain a 45mm drop if going very stiff as the springs need to be shorter so can lead to the springs unseating - can wire then onto the strut but IMO it's too much hassle for most people.

Any stiffer than 155lb and I dont think you'll be able to keep the 45mm drop IMO

Could try and change the ARB size to help? Smaller on the rear to reduce oversteer?! Im sure someone will correct me if im wrong !

22nd November 2009, 14:06

160lbs is the limit fro B8's from what ive read

it's not easy to get a saxo to oversteer, so maybe try different driving styles before blaming the car

22nd November 2009, 14:09

Lowering wise, this is my car having just fitted the GMC 40mm springs. 25mm spring length and rumored 160-180lb. They have settled around 5mm more since then. I would say the wheel sits central in the arch now

From reading a lot on suspension over on ssc I think the general conclusion that anything under 240mm spring length would be very close as to the spring unseating and would need to be tied into the springpans.

22nd November 2009, 14:10

thats correct ross, kam told me 240mm is the very limit, and people have failed MOT's with shorter lengths

22nd November 2009, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleyp

thats correct ross, kam told me 240mm is the very limit, and people have failed MOT's with shorter lengths

Good job I've gone with 240mm springs

I think at the top of my list when modifying/fitted uprated parts is to keep it safe.

22nd November 2009, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Good job I've gone with 240mm springs

I think at the top of my list when modifying/fitted uprated parts is to keep it safe.

yeah, i need to get my springs made up soon, was told 240mm will be fine, but any shorter and it's really not going to be safe

22nd November 2009, 14:31

240mm unseats but is just about acceptable.

Tieing the springs is useless. The spring has weight, it will stay in the bottom spring pan no problem. Look at the top, no use tieing it to the top spring pan as that just sits there, it is held in place by spring tension...

And you can go up to 165 maybe a little more with sprints. They are ideal for 140-160lb though really.

You should be getting understeer if pushing hard enough in the dry even with the standard suspension. You will only ever get oversteer if the back end is too low/you're lifting off/dodgy brakes/shit rear tyres/wet weather/turning in far too aggressively/turning in more mid corner etc etc etc.

So none of those really require harder front springs...

22nd November 2009, 17:08

ok cheers, yeah its only one corner that i have experianced this... maybe im just wanting to much from the car... if i can't go much harder and keep the lowered stance - coilovers prehaps

22nd November 2009, 17:19

trying to get the right setup on coilovers will take some searching on the various forums to see what people are running with regards to length, helper spring length and poundage of both springs.

22nd November 2009, 17:28

this track or road?

depends on how you drive as stated. id consider trying diffirent arb's.

every car has its limits!

22nd November 2009, 19:17

road atm, but is slowly being transformed to track. will be used as a track toy next year as well as getting to and from work (about 2miles)

22nd November 2009, 19:18

I have the same setup and find its a nice balance

Slightly softer then some other cars but its nice I think as when you hit a bump mid corner the car can cope rather then just skipping over it and sliding etc I am happy to sacrafice a bit of latral movement for this

To get more oversteer stiffen the rear ie pug gti beam etc

to get more understeer Stiffen the front ie thicker arb

I have bilstiens, gmc springs, lower omp brace and torsion bar set to match and think its a nice drive neatrual and will just understeer on the limit unless provocted

22nd November 2009, 19:22

as alex said, theres a number of things that could cause it

youve got to find why it's doing it, a lot of people run B8's on track and have no trouble

remember, it's all well and good having a stiff chassis, but it makes it less useable on the roads,

you should do a few track days then decide, not just make assumptions on road use

22nd November 2009, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavin_t

I have the same setup and find its a nice balance

Slightly softer then some other cars but its nice I think as when you hit a bump mid corner the car can cope rather then just skipping over it and sliding etc I am happy to sacrafice a bit of latral movement for this

To get more oversteer stiffen the rear ie pug gti beam etc

to get more understeer Stiffen the front ie thicker arb

I have bilstiens, gmc springs, lower omp brace and torsion bar set to match and think its a nice drive neatrual and will just understeer on the limit unless provocted

ok cheers mate! will experiment in the early hours when weather improves a tad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleyp

as alex said, theres a number of things that could cause it

youve got to find why it's doing it, a lot of people run B8's on track and have no trouble

remember, it's all well and good having a stiff chassis, but it makes it less useable on the roads,

you should do a few track days then decide, not just make assumptions on road use

doing a few tracks next year, including a couple of days.

23rd November 2009, 14:56

If you have not upgraded the rear torsion bars then the setup is not causing more oversteer. There are two things I'd be looking at. Tyre pressures and tyre condition.
Going stiffer will raise the car higher and give more understeer unless you fit an uprated torsion bar to match the spring rates.
Under braking and deceleration you will get weight transfer forward and you will notice the loss of traction at the rear more in the wet. Coming off the throttle mid corner is a big no no too. You will get lift off oversteer and its a sure fire way to enter a hedge backwards.

Kev

23rd November 2009, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

240mm unseats but is just about acceptable.

slightly miss leading to people not fully in the know.

The free length before unseating is totally dependant upon damper extended length. I beleive the 240mm free length you quote is with a bilstein group n damper. With a longer damper such as a sprintline and a 240mm spring, it will unseat. And vica versa, with a shorted damper (pug sport tarmac for example) you could probably get away with a 220mm damper before unseating becomes an issue.

23rd November 2009, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by yr51ocw

With a longer damper such as a sprintline and a 240mm spring, it will unseat. And vica versa, with a shorted damper (pug sport tarmac for example) you could probably get away with a 220mm damper before unseating becomes an issue.

Would it depend on which sprintline damper your talking about? By this i mean the difference between the B6 and the B8. One being shorter than the other.