Bettering my handling? What set up do you have??

1. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

   #1 5th December 2009, 12:40

   Im looking at bettering my handling. Atm ive got apex -50mm kit with rear the same but not yet fitted front dampers, Omp lower strut brace.
   Im looking at getting polyrace bushes front and rear also in need of new rear beam as drivers side pins gone and wheel facing in at the top. Might get a gti one over vtr/s one.
   Should i stick with the apex kit or maybe get harder springs? Or maybe dampers too in the future?
   To me it handles well but know that too alot of people on here it can be a hell of alot better.
2. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

   #2 5th December 2009, 12:45

   depends on what surface you want it to handle better
   as normal roads are pretty shite quality, so you dont wana go too hard. whereas on the track its another story . . .
3. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

   #3 5th December 2009, 12:53

   my car on an apex kit behaves very well i think
   ive got it set up with
   
   polyrace rear beam mounts
   pugsport group n rear beam mounts
   powerflex front wishbone mounts
   powerflex arb buses
   24mm arb
   
   little lively on the rear but all saxos will be tbh
   i think for rast road and maybe a little track use it would be fine
   allthough on track i would be changine my tyres to r888s tbh
4. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

   #4 5th December 2009, 13:00

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by AlexB my car on an apex kit behaves very well i think ive got it set up with polyrace rear beam mounts pugsport group n rear beam mounts powerflex front wishbone mounts powerflex arb buses 24mm arb little lively on the rear but all saxos will be tbh i think for rast road and maybe a little track use it would be fine allthough on track i would be changine my tyres to r888s tbh

   Where have I heard that before
5. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

   #5 5th December 2009, 15:54

   is it the thicker torsion bar or arb that the gti rear beam has? Cant remember which? I wouldnt mind slightly harder dampers maybe but not sure its needed tbh.
6. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

   #6 5th December 2009, 16:05

   Thicker ARB mate
   
   Get the front dampers fitted and you should feel a decent difference in handling
7. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

   #7 5th December 2009, 17:18

   Thought it was the arb as alot of people get the bigger torsion bars. Some uprated bushes should make alot of difference too.
8. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

   #8 13th December 2009, 16:07

   What springs should i go for?
   I want 50mm ones also tbh as know likes of faulkners are 40mm. Cars used everyday also so cant have anything too hard but would like something abit stiffer.
9. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

   #9 13th December 2009, 22:06

   well you want better handling so dont go any lower than 40mm. 30mm is my tried and tested favourite height. Just feels much more planted than 40mm or lower
10. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #10 13th December 2009, 22:11

    I agree with 30-40mm
    
    IMO the best fast road setup is bilstein group n, gmc 40mm springs with 24mm arb (and polybushed) - It just feels so planted soaking up the bumps but doesn't wallow around - I'd run this setup without a doubt on a fast road saxo
11. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #11 14th December 2009, 07:18

    What springs you think i should go for? Well the front of car looks alot lower now with the vts in.
12. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #12 14th December 2009, 10:25

    faulkner customs or gmc. ideally 35mm lowering at around 180lbs but all depends what faulkner can make you
13. titchster Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2008 Down't road from Sheffield Posts: 4641 Was:16v 106 XS ..... Now: Import 1.8 MX5

    #13 14th December 2009, 10:28

    Tom, any idea on how much Faulkner would be charging for that spec spring?
    
    
    Sorry about the hijack.
14. Sparco_Tom Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta

    #14 14th December 2009, 10:35

    ive only ever consulted them about coilover springs, so wouldnt have a clue
15. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #15 14th December 2009, 12:09

    What bushes should i go for? I need a new beam too, Vtr/s or gti?
16. Aron Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic

    #16 14th December 2009, 12:33

    Makes no difference on beam apart from the ARB in the GTI is bigger.
17. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #17 14th December 2009, 13:30

    fitting the front dampers is quick and will make a big difference. Smaller benefits can be had from an upper strut brace (usually traction benefits when camber on the road changes)
    Hard rubber top mounts are good too (we can get these - roughly £79+vat off the top of my head.)
    Tyre quality will make a big difference too so check your tread condition and they are all pumped up to the right pressure.
18. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #18 14th December 2009, 15:31

    Well tire pressure i usually do to 35psi.
    Im looking at getting upper brace soon although people sake doesnt make any difference but may aswell and looks good.
19. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #19 14th December 2009, 15:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by titchster tom, any idea on how much faulkner would be charging for that spec spring? Sorry about the hijack.

    £111.52
20. titchster Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2008 Down't road from Sheffield Posts: 4641 Was:16v 106 XS ..... Now: Import 1.8 MX5

    #20 14th December 2009, 17:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ashleyp £111.52

    Merci beaucoup.
21. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #21 28th December 2009, 09:43

    Which front bushes should i get for suspension? Looking at the powerflex and the polyrace off kam. Ive heard the polyraces are harder and stiffer too.
22. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #22 28th December 2009, 10:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsdvtr Which front bushes should i get for suspension? Looking at the powerflex and the polyrace off kam. Ive heard the polyraces are harder and stiffer too.

    Upto you really - you are correct re: stiffness.
    
    If you're looking to buy now then might have trouble getting powerflex
23. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #23 13th March 2010, 07:17

    Looking at getting some group n top mounts, Get polyrace wishbone and powerflex arb bushes fitted, maybe upgrade to b8 suspension, omp top strut brace, rear polyrace bushes, lsd. What else can be done??
    
    I want it to handle as best as i can tbh.
    
    Is it worth upgrading to b8s over apex or should i stay with the apex kit?? Maybe stiffer springs too?
24. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #24 17th March 2010, 13:57

    What setup have you got and what do you think??
25. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #25 17th March 2010, 14:06

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsdvtr Looking at getting some group n top mounts, Get polyrace wishbone and powerflex arb bushes fitted, maybe upgrade to b8 suspension, omp top strut brace, rear polyrace bushes, lsd. What else can be done?? I want it to handle as best as i can tbh. Is it worth upgrading to b8s over apex or should i stay with the apex kit?? Maybe stiffer springs too?

    I've never used the Apex kit so can't speak for them, what I can say thought is that i've used a spax psx kit and the below kit (Group N's and GMC Springs); the later setup was a lot better !!
    
    I'd get a budget, and then chose a setup to suit your budget, the LSD alone will be close to £1k by the time it's fitted to your gearbox, and some parts are refurbed in your gearbox.
    
    What is your budget? As you can get some trick suspension but will be into the thousands
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsdvtr What setup have you got and what do you think??

    I've got Bilstein Group N Shocks
    GMC 40mm Front Springs
    Powerflex Bushes all-round
    24mm Rear ARB
    21mm Torsion Bars
    
    It feels great on the road for me, and I'll only be going with stiffer front springs when the car begins to be used as a weekend car for fun/track fun.
26. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

    #26 17th March 2010, 14:13

    ive got the apex -50mm kit and very impressed with it.
    also have:
    Polyrace bushes all round
    Upper and lower strut brace
    Group N spoox mounts
    
    handles superbly.
    
    although looking to upgrade to the PSF shizzle soon.
27. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #27 17th March 2010, 14:16

    Well im not too sure if to stick with the apex kit but havent yet fitted the front dampers and maybe stiffer springs or get b8's.
    Get polyrace rear bushes, Uprated engine mounts, Compbrake or group n top mounts.
    
    Well not too sure on a budget as i just usually buy what i want when i feel the need to but want it too handle well and want to sort out the handling and engine i.e cams and bodies this year.
28. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #28 17th March 2010, 14:18

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsdvtr Well im not too sure if to stick with the apex kit but havent yet fitted the front dampers and maybe stiffer springs or get b8's. Get polyrace rear bushes, Uprated engine mounts, Compbrake or group n top mounts. Well not too sure on a budget as i just usually buy what i want when i feel the need to but want it too handle well and want to sort out the handling and engine i.e cams and bodies this year.

    Bilstein B8's and Faulkner springs (155lb) seems to be a pretty tried and tested setup which people like - should be plenty on the road.
    
    You want your suspension to be able to absorb bumps etc. so the tyres are in contact with the road whilst cornering, so stiffer isn't necessarily better.
    
    Some stiffer bushes will be worth doing, as will engine mounts. The rest really is upto you tbh. Maybe try the b8/faulkner setup and go from there?
29. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #29 5th April 2010, 10:12

    I been thinking of replacing some parts while i get my dampers and bushes fitted, Ive got new droplinks that i got with the car but have never been fitted and may aswell get them fitted too. What other parts would be good to replace, may get some uprated top mounts like group n's.
30. user_26394 Saxperience Addict Joined: Aug 2008 Bedworth Posts: 10221 106 gti

    #30 5th April 2010, 10:22

    What tyres are you using?
31. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #31 5th April 2010, 10:25

    IMO I'd skip the group n top mounts and go straight to metal ones but you will 99% need to strengthen the top strut mounting with a plate to stop it bending.
32. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #32 5th April 2010, 12:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bickerton What tyres are you using?

    I have got toyo t1s on front and kuhmos on back. I will be swapping the rears sometime but i like the lip that the toyos have got on them make the tires look abit fatter too and gives the rim that protection.
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz IMO I'd skip the group n top mounts and go straight to metal ones but you will 99% need to strengthen the top strut mounting with a plate to stop it bending.

    Like the compbrake ones? Are they the ones you weld on?
33. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #33 5th April 2010, 12:56

    Im with Raunchz, the B8s with 155's will be a good setup.
    
    Personally, this is how id go with budget wise (Brand new Price)
    
    £175 Spax VSX Non Adjustable
    £275 Spax PSX Adjustable
    £450 B8's with 155lb Faulkners
    £610ish GrpN Bilstein fronts B8s rear 175lb springs
    £715 AST coilovers B8s rear *But at that price theres alot more available worth looking at
    
    Im currently on:
    
    Pugsport France Grp Tarmac Inserts
    Faulker 275lb springs
    40lb helpers
    CompBrake TopMounts
    Coilover Kits
    24mm rear ARB
    Powerflex bushes
    No Front ARB
    £1050 (without rear dampers and the rear end to match so realisticly another £500)
    
    and tbh, its very comfortable despite what poeple have said about higher lb springs etc. Thing is though my mate had bilsteinGrpNs with bigger valves and inverted on 275lb springs and they felt horrible, then with pugsport dampers its really comfortable and not bad at all tbh, feel as though i could go up a few more lb. It gets more costly with playing about with different springs though tbh lol. Also getting things more precise, not just a lower 40mm to match the front n leave it, just constantly playing about.
34. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #34 5th April 2010, 13:07

    I have been thinking about getting a set of b8s. Not sure about springs though, i like my apex ones and like the way it sits on front but obviously it could handle better with different springs. So is it deffo worth upgrading the apex but the fronts havent been fitted yet but was hoping to soon.
    
    Ive also just bought a omp top strut brace and a baker bm gearbox mount. Just need a uprated top mount now as got a powerflex lower.
    
    Need to get a new rear beam as mine knacked and will be buying some polyrace bushes to go with.
35. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #35 5th April 2010, 13:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsdvtr I have been thinking about getting a set of b8s. Not sure about springs though, i like my apex ones and like the way it sits on front but obviously it could handle better with different springs. So is it deffo worth upgrading the apex but the fronts havent been fitted yet but was hoping to soon. Ive also just bought a omp top strut brace and a baker bm gearbox mount. Just need a uprated top mount now as got a powerflex lower. Need to get a new rear beam as mine knacked and will be buying some polyrace bushes to go with.

    I havnt been in or driven a car with Apex so cant comment, hense only spax stuff on there! However, i have heard that the Apex is a good kit, less harsh than the spax, and sometimes compared to the B8's.
    
    Engine mounts are good upgrades, good that you havnt overlooked them.
    
    For all the bushes etc try APS cars, theyre website dosent work anymore so youll have to phone and ask but they have "race spec" bushes for wishbone, ARB and beam at prices the same as powerflex etc if not cheaper. If you want good priced bushes buy these:
    
    http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...oducts_id=5112
36. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #36 5th April 2010, 13:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by db_sax I havnt been in or driven a car with Apex so cant comment, hense only spax stuff on there! However, i have heard that the Apex is a good kit, less harsh than the spax, and sometimes compared to the B8's. Engine mounts are good upgrades, good that you havnt overlooked them. For all the bushes etc try APS cars, theyre website dosent work anymore so youll have to phone and ask but they have "race spec" bushes for wishbone, ARB and beam at prices the same as powerflex etc if not cheaper. If you want good priced bushes buy these: http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...oducts_id=5112

    The bushes from theyre work out cheaper than kam. maybe worth me buying rear beam ones from them.
    Ive got front polyrace wishbone and powerflex arb bushes to be fitted.
    
    What top mounts should i get? Compbrake seem to be a good choice and are good priced.
37. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #37 6th April 2010, 18:23

    Anyone got these or used them, look better than just the plates you can buy-
    http://compbrake.co.uk/shop/product_...36411e01f5be56
    
    Also would it be worthwhile me buying coilover conversion kit like this-
    http://compbrake.co.uk/shop/product_...36411e01f5be56
38. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #38 6th April 2010, 18:29

    IMO yes, it is worth it.
    
    And theres a few of us on here running the compbrake 0234 topmounts as most of the other dont even line up properly.
39. E3D Established Member Joined: Aug 2007 Tunbridge Wells Posts: 1465 Furio 1.4 2002

    #39 6th April 2010, 18:47

    tbh 35mm is a low as its worth going before you get camber changes and make the handling worse. unless you adjust the camber the lower you go worse the handling also theres alot more strain on the suspension. It may have a lower centre of gravity certainly doesnt handle better. It just looks better thats the only reason to lower a saxo.
    
    had this set up on my gti and felt great road use, could be a little stiffer on the track..
    
    24mm rear arb
    b8s
    front and rear lowered 25mm
    floflex bushes for control arms, rear beams, engine mount,22mm front arb
    upper and lower strut braces.
40. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #40 6th April 2010, 23:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by db_sax IMO yes, it is worth it. And theres a few of us on here running the compbrake 0234 topmounts as most of the other dont even line up properly.

    
    Do they weld on or just replace the rubber?? They look like are alot better than like the solid ones that you just weld on but with those you can adjust by looks.
41. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #41 6th April 2010, 23:55

    Nah they dont weld in, just fit like a normal top mount, but you use bolts rather than the studs.
    
    On the ones i got they got 3 holes in each corner. 1degree of neg camber built in.
42. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #42 8th April 2010, 18:26

    Got my apex front dampers fitted yesterday and what a improvement, they are very good and very comfy compared to what they are. There stiff but not harsh at all over bumps, very good for road driving anyway.
43. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #43 21st April 2010, 19:04

    Thinking of building some custom coilovers using these-
    
    http://compbrake.co.uk/shop/product_...roducts_id=299
    
    and these top mounts-
    
    http://compbrake.co.uk/shop/product_...oducts_id=3673
    
    With the likes of bilstein group N dampers, not sure on the springs and helpers yet though.