Not allowed a vts lump... :(

  1. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Suffolk Posts: 7551 N/A 200bhp+ per ton 106 gti
    #1
    got a renewal quote from my insurance, £1100 tpf+t all mods (yes fucking everything) declared. 1 years no claims 3 points 18 years old. Then a quote i denticle with 16v's £2900!

    so was thinking about cams, s1 gear box, s1 inlet... what else you think? will i need a remap? guesstimate of bhp?

    car already has:

    green cotton pannel filter
    green cotton breather filter
    cold air feed from slam pannel
    supersprint s/s manifold
    supersprint race decat pipe
    piper 3" back box

    will be getting it rolling roaded today to see what that gives
  2. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #2
    surely the quote would be similar after informing them about cams, inlet etc.
    I found a loop hole when declaring my engine. I gave them the engine number and said it was another 1.6 insurance documents state its had an engine change and they have the engine number.
    Cost £40 more a year for the engine
    It's fully legit
    20 with 0 NCB living in a shit area for insurance
    1 user thanked this post:
  3. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2008 Rotherham Posts: 4614 Black mk2 vts
    #3
    Put a vtr engine in

    It still look's like a furio engine
  4. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Chorley Posts: 149 saxo vtr 2 nova rally cars quikky and xsi 106
    #4
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom View Post
    surely the quote would be similar after informing them about cams, inlet etc.
    I found a loop hole when declaring my engine. I gave them the engine number and said it was another 1.6 insurance documents state its had an engine change and they have the engine number.
    Cost £40 more a year for the engine
    It's fully legit
    20 with 0 NCB living in a shit area for insurance
    thats quality ,how did you get away with that
  5. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #5
    gave them the required information without metioning number of valves or power output.

    So on paper everything is legit, engine number matches up with chasis number etc
  6. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Chorley Posts: 149 saxo vtr 2 nova rally cars quikky and xsi 106
    #6
    thats ace,the cheapest way for a 16v declared ever hahaha
  7. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #7
    yup thats with ecar insurance
  8. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Suffolk Posts: 7551 N/A 200bhp+ per ton 106 gti
    #8
    will give it a try
  9. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #9
    You have a furio dont you? Do the S1s fit them

    I thought it was only the silver top VTR's
  10. Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341
    #10
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saxo_vtr View Post

    I thought it was only the silver top VTR's
    What?

    No Id imagine if a S1 Gearbox fit a Silvertop VTR it would fit a furio
  11. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Suffolk Posts: 7551 N/A 200bhp+ per ton 106 gti
    #11
    can make anything fit and made 81bhp.
  12. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aly051 View Post
    What?

    No Id imagine if a S1 Gearbox fit a Silvertop VTR it would fit a furio
    What - What?

    I thougt the S1 Rallye inlets could only be fitted to Silter top 90bhp VTR engines, whats so hard to understand
  13. Established Member Joined: Oct 2007 Watford Posts: 1636 2001 VTR ... silver S
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saxo_vtr View Post
    What - What?

    I thougt the S1 Rallye inlets could only be fitted to Silter top 90bhp VTR engines, whats so hard to understand
    they can only be fitted to them mate yes
  14. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2006 Suffolk Posts: 7551 N/A 200bhp+ per ton 106 gti
    #14
    why can't they be fitted to my lump ?
  15. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by one_nation04 View Post
    they can only be fitted to them mate yes
    I know that, but aly051 seemed to doubt me when i said it
  16. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #16
    i think he thought you were talking about the gearbox
  17. Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR
    #17
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom View Post
    i think he thought you were talking about the gearbox
    I hope for his sake that he did
  18. Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 810 2001 VTS
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom View Post
    gave them the required information without metioning number of valves or power output.

    So on paper everything is legit, engine number matches up with chasis number etc
    So what you mean is the numbers match up but it's not legit at all!?

    Well done
  19. L-plater Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 96
    #19
    its blacktop vtr engines that accept the S1 rally inlets, this is down to inlet port spacing

    if you imagine this 0-0-0-0 as the port spacing for the blacktop VTR engine and the s1 rally then THIS is 0-0--0-0 how the inlets look on the new furio engines, so they ports wouldnt match up mate
  20. L-plater Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 96
    #20
    you can change your head to a s1 rally head and swap the management

    heres a quick set up to see you some cheap power.

    S1 rallye inlet
    S1 Rallye head
    s1 Rallye Cam
    Furio bottom end

    then the usual breather mods
    exhaust,manifold,induciton kit

    should see you around 115bhp - 120 bhp easily, and with a lightweight aluminum block from the furio you will be alot faster than most modd'ed vtrs and it will handle better as the VTR lump is quite heavy due to it being made from cast iron
  21. Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saxo_vtr View Post
    What - What?

    I thougt the S1 Rallye inlets could only be fitted to Silter top 90bhp VTR engines, whats so hard to understand
    Oh I thought we were talking about gearboxes here
  22. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #22
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Finchowned View Post
    So what you mean is the numbers match up but it's not legit at all!?

    Well done
    my engine number and chasis number is printed on my insurance document along with all my other mods. So yer its all legal
  23. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Finchowned View Post
    So what you mean is the numbers match up but it's not legit at all!?

    Well done
    its only the same as mine
    1587 on logbook its got the engine number of the motor in the car on and my insureance know its a non standard engine

    fully legal

    theres no mention of valves ect on the logbook
    just means have to get the emissions test on an mot when the cars literally just been thrashed so
  24. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #24
    Alex your telling me you dont have a blind mot man?
  25. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #25
    haha tom my mot man is allright tbh

    but a 16v will pass if you do it right as far as im aware
  26. Newbie Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1
    #26
    <a> href="http://www.airsoftgames.com/bull-xm204hp-grenade-shell-p-529.html">grenade</a>
  27. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #27
    i have lower emissions on a 16v than on my old 8v lump. Although that hadnt been looked after
  28. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #28
    mine needed a bit of warming up
    but its cammed so wont be easy lol
    not a chance currently its well rich
  29. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #29
    i got a custom mot exhaust uses 2 cats welded together. in a furio centre pipe. Car drives like dog shit but emission are an easy pass
  30. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #30
    hahaha legend!
  31. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #31
    hmm jeremy clarkson moment, what it i weld 10 cats together does that mean i wont have any CO2 emissons?
  32. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #32
    hahahaha the green house trailer!!
  33. Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 810 2001 VTS
    #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sparco_Tom View Post
    my engine number and chasis number is printed on my insurance document along with all my other mods. So yer its all legal
    I'd be very suprised if it is legal. Granted the documents may all match up but the DVLA are working on the assumption that it's another 1.6 8v engine as you have failed to tell them that it has twice as many valves, outputs different emissions and has more torque and more bhp.

    I struggle to see how it can be legal when it has an engine about 20% more powerful than what it should!?

    Say you get a MK1 VTR (90Bhp) and fit a TU5JPS from a C2 VTS to it and do what you've done. That means you've added 35Bhp (38% power increase over standard). No way in hell an insurance company or the Police or DVLA would class that as legit.

    Hate to sound like a bore dude but your little loophole sounds nothing more than deciet and could get you in a world of shit.
  34. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Finchowned View Post
    Think you'll find it isn't. Granted the documents may all match up but the DVLA are working on the assumption that it's another 1.6 8v engine as you have failed to tell them that it has twice as many valves, outputs different emissions and has more torque and more bhp.

    You really believe that your car is legal when it has an engine about 20% more powerful than what it should?

    Say you get a MK1 VTR (90Bhp) and fit a TU5JPS from a C2 VTS to it and do what you've done. That means you've added 35Bhp (38% power increase over standard). No way in hell an insurance company or the Police or DVLA would class that as legal.

    Hate to sound like a bore dude but your little loophole sounds nothing more than deciet and could get you in a world of shit.
    however there is nowere to tell them the amount of valves or the power output

    the how every 16v vtr is as short or redeclairing the car as a vts (its still missing half the vts spec abs interior ect) then you cant tell them its a 16v

    even ryans 200bhp throttle bodied track toy is a vtr on logbook

    as long as numbers match documents and the words non standard engine are in yout mods on insureance your fine
  35. Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 810 2001 VTS
    #35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
    however there is nowere to tell them the amount of valves or the power output

    the how every 16v vtr is as short or redeclairing the car as a vts (its still missing half the vts spec abs interior ect) then you cant tell them its a 16v

    even ryans 200bhp throttle bodied track toy is a vtr on logbook

    as long as numbers match documents and the words non standard engine are in yout mods on insureance your fine
    Hmm just sounds crazy and hard to believe to me.
  36. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #36
    look on your logbook for power outputs or number of valves
    then tell us how were supposed to tell the dvla

    as long as the insureance covers it i havent heard of any issues
  37. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #37
    lifted from a thread on the subject the other day about the inspection but mentions logbooks and changes

    willsy is a copper so knows the score

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willsy View Post
    The only think that will visibly change on your logbook will be the engine number with yours Alex

    The model of the car remains unchanged so itll always say VTR, and with yours already saying 1587cc from the VTR thatll be the same as theres no note to include 16v although DVLA would keep a further record of it.

    When i did mine all they required was a letter of confirmation from a recognised garage on headed paper which included all the obvious things like reg, chassis number, new engine number and when the work was completed and then got it stamped

    At the time this was fine and it didnt matter who had actually done the work.

    You'll probably find that yours comes back and you'll have to sweet talk someone into doing a letter stating that they did the work for you

    Ultimately its a pain in the ass
  38. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2007 bromley Posts: 2728 Nissan S13, Saxo Furio
    #38
    my furio is runnin 87hp but its runnin lean do the s1 inlets make much diffrence? and cant you just get a mk2 vtr inlet??
  39. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #39
    try 1.1 tubro overfuelling to the point ti was spittign flames on idle

    3 CAT super exhaust passed like it was a new car haha reminds me need to make another. Good bit of kit ain't it Tom lol
  40. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #40
    The DVLA and the insurers are two different issues.
    Just because the DVLA is not interested does not mean the insurance company isnt either.
    You are not taxed on how many valves are on your engine, only the capacity.
  41. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KamRacing View Post
    The DVLA and the insurers are two different issues.
    Just because the DVLA is not interested does not mean the insurance company isnt either.
    You are not taxed on how many valves are on your engine, only the capacity.
    hence mine declaired as a non standard engine on the insureance docs

    as far as im aware its 100% legal
    dvla know the number
    insureance know its not the 8v
  42. Established Member Joined: Jul 2008 Taunton, Somerset Posts: 1182 Millenium Falcon
    #42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
    hence mine declaired as a non standard engine on the insureance docs

    as far as im aware its 100% legal
    dvla know the number
    insureance know its not the 8v
    This has really confused me now.

    I get the DVLA bit, that you've changed your engine number but the capacity is the same, fine all well and dandy.

    With the insurance though, surely they want to know exactly what engine, what power, what capacity? How can you possibly get around this without either

    a) The Insurance company being completely incompetant and not realising that not every 1587cc is the same power etc.

    b) Lying to them and saying it's a same-spec replacement engine when it isn't.

    THe DVLA don't give a fuck about the engine other than for tax and emissions etc, but I'm pretty damn sure the insurers would want to know your running around 150-160bhp with a cammed 16v engine, not some 90 or 98bhp 8v engine?