Differences: 1.1 vs. VTR + MK1 vs MK2.. Help?

17th December 2009, 22:08

Hey guys, been looking into getting a VTR for a while.. Just found out the insurance is only about £300 a year more than my 1.1 atm (as a first car, tats not bad only paying £1300 for first car on a VTR with 6 points.. :o!

Whats the true difference? As in will it actually be a massive jump between driving 1.1 to VTR? Also would it be a massive difference between a MK1 VTR and MK2? Currently driving 1.1 MK1 Eastcoast..

Also what you guys think I could get for the mango 1.1? No problems with it as such although i think the idle control valve could do with a clean, Haven't done myself as of yet though. Would sell with approx 6months tax and around 12 months MOT most likely.. All help appreciated

Thanks

Also what price for my car at current state? (6mnths tax, 4mnths MOT)

Cheers

17th December 2009, 22:17

Mate ive put a VTR in my 1.1 amd there is quite a big jump ye. Acceleration well better and pulls to top end better to. Go for it

17th December 2009, 22:18

iv never driven a vtr myself but id expect the diffrence to be largley noticeable tbh.

And i think you would be looking at around 600-800 for the 1.1 mate.

17th December 2009, 22:19

I mean..Ive hit probably 95 top on my 1.1 but most likely me being a pussy.. Could probably hit 100, maybe 105 (but would take hours to get there) Also 0-60 in around 1-2 weeks? Whats the stats for a VTR? Another attraction to the VTR MK2 is that parts are so much easier to get (Mods) and you dont have to make allowances for them, But I do like the mango and cant afford a respray

lol!

17th December 2009, 22:19

Because the VTR has a rubbish final drive the difference that you feel between the 1.1 and VTR at first is a bit underwhelming IMO, but as you know by driving a 1.1 there are lots of occasions when you find yourself with a very real lack of grunt. This is where you will notice the extra horses from the VTR, as well as greater pulling power from 3rd onwards etc. Throughout 1st, and between 2000-2500rpm in 2nd there is barely any difference IMO, after this the VTR will start to pick up the revs a lot faster and you will also feel the power as it pulls.

From a standing start, the 1.1 will probably beat the heavier VTR off the line (over say 50m) but after that (as soon as you hit 2nd pretty much) it will pull away at a fair old rate.

The difference between the MK1 and Mk2 I can't comment on because I've never driven any MK1's.

17th December 2009, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by banke

iv never driven a vtr myself but id expect the diffrence to be largley noticeable tbh.

And i think you would be looking at around 600-800 for the 1.1 mate.

I was thinking maybe around £800.. Payed £1000 for it, now realising I most likely got conned.. Is the £600-£800 with a full MOT? I Bought at 70k miles with 6months MOT and 1 Year Tax. Now on around 84K miles (around 10k motorway miles, not that it matters)

17th December 2009, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Dan-

Because the VTR has a rubbish final drive the difference that you feel between the 1.1 and VTR at first is a bit underwhelming IMO, but as you know by driving a 1.1 there are lots of occasions when you find yourself with a very real lack of grunt. This is where you will notice the extra horses from the VTR, as well as greater pulling power from 3rd onwards etc.

The difference between the MK1 and Mk2 I can't comment on because I've never driven any MK1's.

Thanks, this is the sort of info I was after.. Would it still be a case of dropping to 4th to overtake on the motorway? (Embarrasing, I know. Especially when the car ahead is doing 70).. What other cars could you compare the VTR to, Its a 1.4 iirc? (Sorry I actually do suck that much idk wat engine size a VTR is), And whats it like on top end? Could it be compared to the 1.4 astra?

17th December 2009, 22:24

vtr 0-60 10.9. top end 120ish. i noticed quite a big differemce tbh.

17th December 2009, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

I was thinking maybe around £800.. Payed £1000 for it, now realising I most likely got conned.. Is the £600-£800 with a full MOT? I Bought at 70k miles with 6months MOT and 1 Year Tax. Now on around 84K miles (around 10k motorway miles, not that it matters)

Id say full tax and mot , , have a look in the saxo's for sale thread mate and see what they ussualy go for.

And go for the vtr mate , , the only way is up imo

17th December 2009, 22:26

and the vtr is a 1.6 8 valve mate , ,

17th December 2009, 22:36

I was looking at getting a VTR to replace the 1.1 a couple of months back, but after driving one, I decided it's not really worth it unless you are adamant to buy a new car. I decided If I'm going to buy another Saxo I will go straight to a VTS, but you'll struggle with running costs and Insurance at a young age.

I'm not saying I'd take the 1.1 OVER a VTR because I definately wouldn't but in my position it wasn't enough of an upgrade to warrant selling my car and buying a new one. I do have a VT Kit and VTR alloys on my 1.1 though so If it's looks your comparing too then obviously the VTR looks meaner etc. Also it has better brakes, better interior and more scope for tuning.

It's a hard decision at the end of the day, and one that only you can make really but I hope I helped a bit.

17th December 2009, 22:44

it an easy decision mate i had a 1.1 & have just upgraded to a vtr & the difference is huge it handles loads better & has the obvious boost in acceleration it really is so much faster. Imo the mk2 looks loads better than the mk1 & there is also an 8bhp differential between the two vtrs! go for it you wont regret it its not alot more money and you'll enjoy driving it everyday.

17th December 2009, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by banke

and the vtr is a 1.6 8 valve mate , ,

1.6? :o Im pretty impressed in that low a price being 18 Years old with 0 NCB on a 1.6 :o Hehe! Id be chuffed if i could upgrade to the VTR within the £600 mark, as in sell the 1.1 for £800, Get the VTR for £1,400..Whats the chances? Can you get a decent VTR for around the £1,000 - £1,400 mark? so whats the BHP on a VTR? And a 1.1 is about 60bhp iirc? Also what sort of affect do the subtle mods on a VTR have for speed? (Induction, exhaust system, etc?)

Thanks again

17th December 2009, 22:47

Thanks guys for te comments, Keep em coming! Relaly considering this, Just need to warrant the approx. £600 difference in car cost and approx £300-£400 difference per year in insurance, If its gonna mean I can stop being bullied by the likes of KAs on the road :lol: Then its worth it IMO

17th December 2009, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

1.6? :o Im pretty impressed in that low a price being 18 Years old with 0 NCB on a 1.6 :o Hehe! Id be chuffed if i could upgrade to the VTR within the £600 mark, as in sell the 1.1 for £800, Get the VTR for £1,400..Whats the chances? Can you get a decent VTR for around the £1,000 - £1,400 mark? so whats the BHP on a VTR? And a 1.1 is about 60bhp iirc? Also what sort of affect do the subtle mods on a VTR have for speed? (Induction, exhaust system, etc?)

Thanks again

MK2 VTR is 98bhp MK1 VTR is 90bhp.

Can pick up a pretty good condition VTR for circa £1400 these days for that your looking at part-full history, 70k miles, good condition body with maybe a few dinks etc. If you want mint your looking at more like £1800. Anything over that isn't worth it IMO, for £2k+ you can get a fairly average condition VTS.

MK2 VTR with decent breathing mods (Enclosed Induction, 4-2-1, Decatted etc) will see maybe 110-115bhp. But the shit gearbox will mean it's a hella lot slower through the gears than a VTS would be so consider getting a better box.

17th December 2009, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

If its gonna mean I can stop being bullied by the likes of KAs on the road :lol: Then its worth it IMO

it is fun actually being able to win some battles on the road lol i love seeing poeples face when they cant get past me in my saxo haha its gotta be worth it just for that

17th December 2009, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnc88

it is fun actually being able to win some battles on the road lol i love seeing poeples face when they cant get past me in my saxo haha its gotta be worth it just for that

Haha thats what im looking for

Just got the same price on a 1.6 astra sxi.. Comparisons? Whats the best car you can get for between £1000 - £1500 in a 1.6 or below? I wanna look for some quotes, this got me interested now :o:o

17th December 2009, 23:08

I went from 1.4 to 1.6 and i noticed the difference. go for it mate

17th December 2009, 23:09

save up and get a decent vtr if you are going get one.
try to get one with full service history as one with full service history has more chance that the previous owner looked after it.

some people say it doesnt matter but i must have test drove 6 cars before i brought mine and 3 of my friends had mk2 vtr's aswell and u can 100% tell the difference in performance between a car that has been looked after and one that hasnt.

you will really notice the difference form your 1.1. you would notice a difference going from the 1.4 furio to the vtr. people go on bwt the gearbox having long ratios and it making the vtr slower than it could be and this is true but unless ur going be trying race the 1.6 106 rallye it doesnt really matter and i dnt think its noticeable as when u put ur foot down it will still race up the revs through every gear except 5th.

its better for motorway driving,better on petrol and if you are worried bwt performance well think of it this way. the mk2 vtr box will hit 100mph in 4th gear so what an extra box gives u in acceleration u loose in the extra gear shifts.

just make shure you get one with full service history it is well well worth the extra money.

17th December 2009, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

Haha thats what im looking for

Just got the same price on a 1.6 astra sxi.. Comparisons?

well i beat one at the lights the other day lol theres loads of them round near me i think its probably a weight thing as much as anything though what sort of things you want comparing?

17th December 2009, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingray1987

just make shure you get one with full service history it is well well worth the extra money.

+1million lol its the main thing i looked for when i got mine cost me nearly 500 notes more but i think of it as ill be saving that money in not having to repair it all the time

17th December 2009, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnc88

well i beat one at the lights the other day lol theres loads of them round near me i think its probably a weight thing as much as anything though what sort of things you want comparing?

its also to do with the restrictive inlet manifold.
i have a 1.6 16v corsa b and they have the same engine as the astra sxi (not the new astras tho) and the inlet is made to go to the front right of the enigne where the tb faces the back of the car and then a pipe goes round the back of the enigne to the airbox on the left hand side of the engine bay.

if you went up against one with a powerbox which gets rid of this as the inlet on the astra/corsa splits in two and the powerbox replaces the top half of the manifold sending it straight to the airbox moving the tb in the process. it shortens the inlet by over 1 metre.
a powerbox on that enigne would put it up to about 120ish bhp frm 100ish.

17th December 2009, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnc88

well i beat one at the lights the other day lol theres loads of them round near me i think its probably a weight thing as much as anything though what sort of things you want comparing?

My brother drives one, And it feels like a fucking rocket from the passanger seat.. Top end, acceleration? I am quite sure the saxo > astra in handling, but i'm a n00b tbh.. Im getting more and more drawn in! :O

17th December 2009, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingray1987

its also to do with the restrictive inlet manifold.
i have a 1.6 16v corsa b and they have the same engine as the astra sxi (not the new astras tho) and the inlet is made to go to the front right of the enigne where the tb faces the back of the car and then a pipe goes round the back of the enigne to the airbox on the left hand side of the engine bay.

if you went up against one with a powerbox which gets rid of this as the inlet on the astra/corsa splits in two and the powerbox replaces the top half of the manifold sending it straight to the airbox moving the tb in the process. it shortens the inlet by over 1 metre.
a powerbox on that enigne would put it up to about 120ish bhp frm 100ish.

WOW. That was like reading arabic to me :O lmao damn I need some of my friends to do some serious ground work on their cars (engine conversion etc.) As I really gotta learn about motors

I love my 1.1 atm and I big it up wherever I can because I think its the dogs, But I'm always finding myself having to justify its downfalls e.g why I cant take over my friend in his '55 fiesta 1.2 when his car is about double my size :/

17th December 2009, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

My brother drives one, And it feels like a fucking rocket from the passanger seat.. Top end, acceleration? I am quite sure the saxo > astra in handling, but i'm a n00b tbh.. Im getting more and more drawn in! :O

like i said mate i did one at the lights so in terms of acceleration the saxo probably just has the edge. your right with the handling saxo is alot of fun in the turns. top end probably the astra but we dont speed do we

lol look on the parkers website it'll give you all the stats you want

17th December 2009, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnc88

like i said mate i did one at the lights so in terms of acceleration the saxo probably just has the edge. your right with the handling saxo is alot of fun in the turns. top end probably the astra but we dont speed do we

lol look on the parkers website it'll give you all the stats you want

Yeah, I do alot of motorway driving to work etc, but TBH i'd probably pussy out at 110 in a car as frail as the sax :/ lolz! what about a focus 1.6 vs the VTR? Whats the opinions? Im getting really intrigued

haha sorry if im asking stupid questions etc, the 1.1 is my first car and im a total froob when it comes to under the bonnet, love to get my hands dirty but all I can do atm is what has been done to my car by me so far (Headlamp conversion, Smoke back lights, T-Cut badges, Meshed grill) :/ lolz! Help ftw!

Your comments are really helping guys keep em coming

17th December 2009, 23:50

well the main reason ur friends 55plate fiesta is quiker is it has 8 more valves. also a car looses bhp over the years.

yeah parkers is a good guide for standard cars but remember all info given on that website is "as new" so it could say a car is faster than an other on parkers but if one has been looked after and the other abused then it mite not be the case.
and yes a lowerd saxo will beat most things round the bends and is alot more fun to drive and the 8valves are good on petrol

.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs that site will tell the the bhp of most cars on the road and tell u the weight and the 0-60 times.

17th December 2009, 23:52

get a mk2 vtr as its got them 8 more horses

Difference will be insane...

I did have a 1.4 westcoast (dropping into 4th to overtake I know how you feel)

upgraded to a VTS

the difference scared the shit out of me, having that habbit of dropping the gear to overtake is still there.... doing 80, drop to 4th and then im doing a tonne its mad...

so mate, definatley 1.1 to VTR jump is gonna be a smart move

17th December 2009, 23:56

hehe im getting tempted

Would the fact the 1.6 Astra SXi being a 16v make a big deifference? I mean, personally, I got a grudge against puntos and KAs myself..Best mate got a 1.1 punto sport, Misses got a 1.3 KA and I smoke them both, purely because they both drive like steven hawkins, Fearing the day they find the acceleration pedal and all the abuse blows up in my face

but i mean, Is it worth paying upto £1k extra for the first year, then between 200 and 400 extra each year (obviously decreasing as my age increases) to get the vtr? It really seems like i'd be stupid NOT to atm as I have a shit car, But dont have the money to upgrade right now, Wish one of you guys could come with me to pick a VTR coz I SUCK! Hehe

17th December 2009, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Dan-

MK2 VTR is 98bhp MK1 VTR is 90bhp.

Can pick up a pretty good condition VTR for circa £1400 these days for that your looking at part-full history, 70k miles, good condition body with maybe a few dinks etc. If you want mint your looking at more like £1800. Anything over that isn't worth it IMO, for £2k+ you can get a fairly average condition VTS.

MK2 VTR with decent breathing mods (Enclosed Induction, 4-2-1, Decatted etc) will see maybe 110-115bhp. But the shit gearbox will mean it's a hella lot slower through the gears than a VTS would be so consider getting a better box.

Early MK2's are 90bhp.

After 2000> there 98bhp i belivie.

Also someone said the top end for a vtr is 120? If your top speed is 120 then theres something wrong lol

17th December 2009, 23:57

Also slugs, Notice you're a cardiff boy! Where abouts?

17th December 2009, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwilson

Early MK2's are 90bhp.

After 2000> there 98bhp i belivie.

Also someone said the top end for a vtr is 120? If your top speed is 120 then theres something wrong lol

Thats mint, Compared to my 4th gear, Over revving, Long ass stretch to get to 80, Then my lame shift to 5th gets me 95tops.. Haha! is a Mk1 1.1 67bhp? or did u dream that up?

18th December 2009, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

Thats mint, Compared to my 4th gear, Over revving, Long ass stretch to get to 80, Then my lame shift to 5th gets me 95tops.. Haha! is a Mk1 1.1 67bhp? or did u dream that up?

sorry dude its on 60bhp and that if it was new

.
id keep the 1.1 for a while and get a few no claims before you go ahead and get the 1.6 vtr as everyone and i mean everyone has at least a small bump in there first 2 years of driving even if its only with a kerb.
make all ur mistakes on ur 1.1 so when you get your 1.6 you can handle it and dont end up smashing it.

i cnrt say much id been driving almost 3 years when i smashed my vtr

.
trust me when i say the saxo just falls bits in a crash.

18th December 2009, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingray1987

sorry dude its on 60bhp and that if it was new

.
id keep the 1.1 for a while and get a few no claims before you go ahead and get the 1.6 vtr as everyone and i mean everyone has at least a small bump in there first 2 years of driving even if its only with a kerb.
make all ur mistakes on ur 1.1 so when you get your 1.6 you can handle it and dont end up smashing it.

i cnrt say much id been driving almost 3 years when i smashed my vtr

.
trust me when i say the saxo just falls bits in a crash.

Im on my fathers insurance, Hes got 10yrs no claims and before you guys start hating me about "Fronting" I'm well aware, Now you gotta prove I use it over 50% of the time

Anyways, The NCB is protected as my dad cant live without his NCB as the nature of his employment, but tbh I wouldnt really be looking to claim on a £1400 car.. Would be better to bail myself out, would most likely be a write off with even 2 panels dented anyway :/ TPFT ftw!

18th December 2009, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColezeY

Im on my fathers insurance, Hes got 10yrs no claims and before you guys start hating me about "Fronting" I'm well aware, Now you gotta prove I use it over 50% of the time

Anyways, The NCB is protected as my dad cant live without his NCB as the nature of his employment, but tbh I wouldnt really be looking to claim on a £1400 car.. Would be better to bail myself out, would most likely be a write off with even 2 panels dented anyway :/ TPFT ftw!

be carefull tho as i went into the back of an astra funny enough in my saxo and i was 3rd party fire and theft and i offerd to apy all damages but the 3rd party insisted going through the insurance and they got 6,000 pay out and i only scractched her bumper as the toebar and my bumber took all the damage.

its all about whiplash claims not. everyone is doing it they dont care home much it affects a young lad loosing all his no claims.

18th December 2009, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingray1987

be carefull tho as i went into the back of an astra funny enough in my saxo and i was 3rd party fire and theft and i offerd to apy all damages but the 3rd party insisted going through the insurance and they got 6,000 pay out and i only scractched her bumper as the toebar and my bumber took all the damage.

its all about whiplash claims not. everyone is doing it they dont care home much it affects a young lad loosing all his no claims.

Yeahh I used to work in claims for admiral, I know the bullshit that goes on but at the end of the day i've made a few arsehole mistakes in my life (Hence 6 points at the age of 18, all accumilated BEFORE i had my licence) And i've come to realise, If I fuck up, Gotta pay the consequences, And if it wasnt my fault my NCB or claims wont be affected! But the insurance Isn't too much a problem, Just gotta find justification

Im just madly in love with my car because everyone recognises it! And even my mates parents give me a beep when they see me haa! I just dont wanna blend into the crowd if you get me

Wanna still stand out but havent got the funds for respray / Mad alloys etc

18th December 2009, 01:19

Bumpp

18th December 2009, 14:16

Big jump went from 1.1 > GTi alot more power will feel plenty quick enough for at least a few months possibly too quick.

18th December 2009, 18:08

if i was you mate id keep the 1.1 and save end of the day the vtr ya its a faster car but in the hole world of cars its nuthink that great at all i no what its like to be young and want to go fast i had a 1.2 clio as my first car and wanted to put a 2.0 in it etc think every young lad wants to go fast but then the down side is it costs lot more to run a bigger car ya 1.1 will be good on petrol your probs think its crap drive a vtr how u drive that you will notice, i had a 1.3 old fiesta as my little run around come into some money rushed out to get a new car found a vts cheap loved the power etc but now its kicking me in the balls as they drink petrol insurance is hight etc so just think bout is it all worth it to be able to get to 6 a few seconds quicker? etc

18th December 2009, 18:29

-DAN- the VTR you drove must of been fucked if you think a 1.1 could have it off the line and that there isn't any difference between them in 1st and 2nd as I went from a 1.1 to a VTR and the difference is massive - VTR's are rapid but the VTS is quicker obviously

18th December 2009, 19:34

Upto 30/40mph 1.1/VTR will be similar speed VTR may feel quicker but after this 1.1 drops off and takes forever to get to 60... Mates got a 1.1 after he'd shot off a car or so infront took me some time to catch him up down a long stretch of dual carriage way (1/4 or 1/2 mile) Very nippy cars to 40 then they die..

18th December 2009, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnc88

like i said mate i did one at the lights so in terms of acceleration the saxo probably just has the edge. your right with the handling saxo is alot of fun in the turns. top end probably the astra but we dont speed do we

lol look on the parkers website it'll give you all the stats you want

The figures off there are about as accurate as catatonic drunkard’s line of urine = not very accurate.

Take your car to santapod or a trackday and find out how fast it really is, don't rely on dodgy timing from your mate doing your 0-60, or resorting to Parkers.