Master cylinder

1. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

   #1 1st January 2010, 00:57

   Im after a larger master cylinder to help with my 4 pots, i was going to get one from a gti but none of my local breakers seem to have any
   
   does anyone know what other cars master cylinders will fit 106's or saxos?
   
   Thanks
2. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

   #2 1st January 2010, 10:51

   bump...
3. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

   #3 1st January 2010, 11:05

   406 non abs is 23.8mm (iirc) its what willsy runs with his 6 post
   
   and moved to the brakes section
4. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

   #4 1st January 2010, 15:49

   is it just the 406? will a 206 or C2 non abs work?
5. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

   #5 1st January 2010, 21:53

   last time i wnt there was a 406 4 port m/c at beales, near desborough dude, Never heard of 206 or c2 m/c being used, but they will almost certainly be smaller cylinder and 2 port....
   
   What 4 pots have you got?
6. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

   #6 2nd January 2010, 01:31

   AP Racing 270mm
   
   cheers will have a ring 2moz
7. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

   #7 5th January 2010, 19:02

   Thanks Olly i picked up that 406 master cylinder yest and fitted it yest too, i was quite pround of myself tbh lol ive never bled brakes before
   
   But yh all went well, however the pedal travel is now lees but i still have to press really hard to brake propely :s
   
   New pads have now been ordered tho as the old ones were shit apparently so hopefully that might solve the problem - or am i completely wrong and the pads dont adjust how hard you need to press?
8. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

   #8 5th January 2010, 19:59

   KL, He's a bit pikey looking isnt he! Aha.
   
   Pads and discs will be the main thing! Along with properly bled system.
   
   Should look into Carbon lorraine rc5, Mintex m1144, ferodo ds 2500 pads, And some Good quality discs.
   
   Bigger m/c Will make it harder to brake, But reduce the pedal travel.
   
   
   On a side note, What Ap calipers and how much?
9. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

   #9 5th January 2010, 20:16

   Yh but as scrapyards go that was defo the best - had loads of stuff and they dont treat u like a twat - defo worth the distance
   
   My m1144s should be coming tomoz - ordered last week so im hoping that sorts it if not i dono what to do
   
   i think my disks should be ok, i hope so cus i really like em
   
   and there the AP's that came on the 106 Maxi cars
   
   
10. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #10 5th January 2010, 20:38

    Indeed, There always helpful.
    
    Think you will be impressed, when the pads are on. Clean the discs with soem brake cleaner before hand, just to make sure there free of oil!
    
    Surely if youve spent so much on your brakes a new m/c wasnt out of the question?
    
    Whats the car/spec?
11. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #11 5th January 2010, 20:54

    yh master cylinder was always on teh cars, but i always had something more imporant i wanted, but got a bit of cash for xmas and decided to sort it now
    
    Dont get to exited bout spec, heres what i copied of my prog blog:
    Exterior
    
    Green Peugeot Front Badge
    Green Double Pinstripe
    GTi Spoiler
    Black Side Repeaters
    Black Lexus Rear Lights
    Black FK Angel Eyes - with green halo's
    Black Sunstrip - with Double Pinstripe
    Wind Deflectors
    Punto Washer Jets
    Sparco Aero Wiper Blades
    De-wipered Rear
    106 Rallye Aerial Bung
    Carbon Fibre Door Handle Covers
    Colour Coded Mirror Caps
    Custom made Green Rear Peugeot Badge
    Bonnet Raisers
    
    Interior
    
    Sparco Fighter Fibreglass Bucket Seats with sliding subframes
    Green TRS Clubman Harnesses
    Stripped
    Momo Steering Wheel
    B&M Gearknob
    Rallye Doorcards Retrimmed in Alcantara
    GTi Alloy Door Handles
    Green Floor Matts
    JVC DVD Headunit
    Alpine Speakers and Tweeters
    Richbrook Engine Start Button
    Peugeot Interior Badge
    Green Fluffy Dice
    
    Chassis
    
    OMP Lower Strut Brace
    Green 205 GTi Alloys
    Goodyear Eagle F1's
    AP Racing 270mm 4 Pot Calipers with Drilled, Grooved and Vented Disks
    Goodridge Braided Brake Lines
    40mm Lowering Springs
    
    Engine + Transmission
    
    GE Quickshift
    B&M Quickshift
    Supersprint Straight through Centre Pipe
    Piper 3" Saxo Backbox
    Raceland Induction Kit with Green Air Filter
    Colour Coded Rocker Cover with Green Double Pinstripe
    
    since then i now have:
    23mm master cylinder
    2 gauge pillar pod with plazma dials for oil temp and rev counter
    and a HID kit 8k
    
    all this oon a 1.1- i have a 98hp vtr engine in my garage that i want to put in but tbh all my mods where done ready for when i get a GTi hopefully later on this year, which should make quite a nice car wehn all these mods are on
12. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #12 5th January 2010, 21:20

    kl! Should make a very tidy GTI!!
    
    Was there many tiny bubbles when you were bleeding the ap's? The bleed screw looks quite low.. probably me looking at it funny.
13. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #13 5th January 2010, 21:25

    yh i fully bled it used nearly all of the 5 litre bottle of fluid i gt just to make sure - and i used a hydrolic bleeder kit to be even more sure - useses the pressre from a spare tyre to pump the fluid through, also handy when ur on ur own
14. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #14 5th January 2010, 22:14

    5 litres? I hope it wasnt expensive stuff!
15. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #15 6th January 2010, 17:32

    another update* just went to fit my new pads and my old pads have a wonky wear to them :s its worn loads at the top and not much at all at the bottom
    I then looked at the actuall pistons and only the top 2 on both calipers were sticking out - which leads me to think that the bottom pistons arnt/ wernt working
    
    i then tried a rebleed and strangly enough a couple of bubbles came out - no many but the pedal feels much better, but i didnt but my new pads in incase they worn funny again so will have a drive tonite with some nice heavy braking and see what the pistons look like 2moz
    here are some pics to help explain
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
16. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #16 6th January 2010, 17:57

    maybe the pistons are sticking? Causing the uneven wear?
17. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #17 6th January 2010, 18:01

    how can u fix that lol - but it defo sounds expensive
    
    it just seems weird that its the exact same on both calipers
    
    ive put the pads in the opposite way to how that were so hopefully the lower pistons will work themselves out
18. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #18 6th January 2010, 18:04

    Would be kind of explainable if the wear on the pad was the other way around, so the leading edge was worn... As raunchs says....
    
    Did you try moving the other 2 pistons?
19. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #19 6th January 2010, 18:07

    no i didnt, i didnt know how to as they are kinda flush against the caliper :s
20. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #20 6th January 2010, 18:08

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 how can u fix that lol - but it defo sounds expensive it just seems weird that its the exact same on both calipers ive put the pads in the opposite way to how that were so hopefully the lower pistons will work themselves out

    Basically a caliper rebuild ideally tbh. They might need free'ing which you can do with an airline but I wouldn't try it personally.
    
    If they are AP 4 pots I'd send them off to get refurbished, new seals etc. They look like they aren't externally dust sealed (might have some internal dust seals like the Tar.Ox calipers) which might explain why its the same on the other side. Could just be the pads being fitted wrong?
    
    Bigg Redd might be able to help out, worth a phone call at least ?
21. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #21 6th January 2010, 18:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 no i didnt, i didnt know how to as they are kinda flush against the caliper :s

    try and lock off the other 2 pistons then push the brake pedal, the 2 should start to come out now.
22. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #22 6th January 2010, 18:21

    cheers mate
    whos big red?
    and how can you lock off the pistons?
    i know that they have dust seals dono if its internal or external but defo has em
    
    but at the mo the top to pistons are quite tight against the meaty half of the pad but the lower ones now have loads of room to move against the skinny part of the pad - im gona go for a drive and try and brake a bit - might this pop the lower pistons out, ill have a check 2moz and see
23. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #23 6th January 2010, 18:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 cheers mate whos big red? and how can you lock off the pistons? i know that they have dust seals dono if its internal or external but defo has em but at the mo the top to pistons are quite tight against the meaty half of the pad but the lower ones now have loads of room to move against the skinny part of the pad - im gona go for a drive and try and brake a bit - might this pop the lower pistons out, ill have a check 2moz and see

    they definitely don't have external dust seals by the look of the pictures.
    
    well it looks like the top two opposing cylinders are fine, so maybe put something in between them, maybe the pads and the disc, but leaving the other 2 opposing pistons free to move.
    
    When you press the pedal the free 2 pistons should move out. If they don't then there's your answer.
    
    If the pads have worn like that then giving them a little drive won't pop them out I wouldn't have thought - I'd expect them to be used in anger before you've fitted them.
    
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bigg+red
24. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #24 6th January 2010, 18:27

    Put something solid inbetween the top two pistons, and flat so that they dont get damaged, and then push the brake pedal...
    
    Dont go slamming into corners if youve turned the pads around, as they probably wont work too well
25. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #25 6th January 2010, 18:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Olly Put something solid inbetween the top two pistons, and flat so that they dont get damaged, and then push the brake pedal... Dont go slamming into corners if youve turned the pads around, as they probably wont work too well

    Don't think they'll work at all I'd imagine looking at the angle of them, plus they are greenstuff I think. . . .
26. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #26 6th January 2010, 19:09

    I have 4 Pots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've meen doing mega heavy braking on quite roads and all of a sudden the whole braking system felt completely different, it now brakes amazingly, it doesn't lock up the rear anymore, I get a bit of brake squeel and drumming cus it's vented!!! The brakes have never worked this well I think I've been running 2 pots ever sinse I I bought them and now I've freed up the other 4
    I am so happy I finally have the brake I wanted but I've had to pull over abot as I can smell burnin brakes which is another new one for me
    
    thanks everyone for ur help
27. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #27 6th January 2010, 19:10

    LOL not heard good things about greenstuff, I have never tried them though.
    
    When you turned the pads rounds did you push the brake pedal? Did the bottom pistons move out?
28. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #28 6th January 2010, 19:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 I have 4 Pots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've meen doing mega heavy braking on quite roads and all of a sudden the whole braking system felt completely different, it now brakes amazingly, it doesn't lock up the rear anymore, I get a bit of brake squeel and drumming cus it's vented!!! The brakes have never worked this well I think I've been running 2 pots ever sinse I I bought them and now I've freed up the other 4 I am so happy I finally have the brake I wanted but I've had to pull over abot as I can smell burnin brakes which is another new one for me thanks everyone for ur help

    So you just gave them hell and they free'd up ?
    
    Whoever owned them before you must have been light on the brake pedal, or they might have got stiff in storage !
    
    Get those 1144's on !!!
29. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #29 6th January 2010, 19:11

    Also, now they are free, might be worth a quick final bleed just to make sure it's AOK
30. Olly Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Meerkat Harborough Posts: 2638 Saxo vtr mk 2

    #30 6th January 2010, 19:13

    + 1 on the 1444, Good news anyway dude, If your feeling fush anytime and dont need your car for a few days, I would look into getting them re-furbed, or at least checked.
31. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #31 6th January 2010, 19:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz Also, now they are free, might be worth a quick final bleed just to make sure it's AOK

    oh I'm so happy, 2moz is gona b a gd day, I'll give it anothe lr bleed and put the new pads on, then I got some new apex rear shocks to go on too!
    
    The car has just instanly changed, i just gave the brakes he'll and after bout tenn mins sumit happened and freed up the others and it doesn't pull to a side so there defo both sorted
    give the greenstuffs a bit more he'll til 2moz lol
    
    
32. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #32 6th January 2010, 19:20

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 oh I'm so happy, 2moz is gona b a gd day, I'll give it anothe lr bleed and put the new pads on, then I got some new apex rear shocks to go on too! The car has just instanly changed, i just gave the brakes he'll and after bout tenn mins sumit happened and freed up the others and it doesn't pull to a side so there defo both sorted give the greenstuffs a bit more he'll til 2moz lol

    you'll kill those greestuffs !!!
    
    Olly is right though, I'd budget for a refurb in the next few months, or start putting a bit of money aside maybe and just clean them regularly, especially around the pistons to stop the dirt and shite getting in.
    
    When you change the pads over, might be worth pumping the pistons out a bit, cleaning the outside of them up with some brake cleaner before pushing them back in for the new pads
33. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #33 7th January 2010, 11:54

    just went to swap the pads over again and it still seem as if ther lower pistons arnt working :s does anyone know of places that rebuild brakes? big red says they cant do AP's they need to see the caliper to see if they can do it
34. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #34 7th January 2010, 12:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 just went to swap the pads over again and it still seem as if ther lower pistons arnt working :s does anyone know of places that rebuild brakes? big red says they cant do AP's they need to see the caliper to see if they can do it

    Bigg red is the only large company I know that would have the facilities to make/buy the right parts.
    
    Maybe worth trying Ap themselves to try and get a rebuild kit and send the calipers to them or bigg red.
35. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #35 7th January 2010, 18:29

    ive left the car on stands now as i now have a temp company car only gt 2k on the clock lol, and on sat im gona take all the pistons out and give them a thourough clean
36. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #36 7th January 2010, 18:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 ive left the car on stands now as i now have a temp company car only gt 2k on the clock lol, and on sat im gona take all the pistons out and give them a thourough clean

    yeh sounds like the bottom two pistons aren't happy!
37. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #37 10th January 2010, 17:21

    all pistons were removed, cleaned, lubricated anas well as the piston bores, the new pads were fitted and fully bled twice to make sure
    and the final result is amazing, just feels so responsive and powerful
38. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #38 10th January 2010, 18:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Forrest72 all pistons were removed, cleaned, lubricated anas well as the piston bores, the new pads were fitted and fully bled twice to make sure and the final result is amazing, just feels so responsive and powerful

    Good work !! Must feel great now you've got 4 pots working
39. Forrest72 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2008 Leicestershire Posts: 422 106 1.1 (Green Machine), £90 106 1.1 (Track Car)

    #39 10th January 2010, 23:36

    im loving it just waiting for the new pads to bed in before i give it some proper action