Advice please - 1.1 to 1.4 conversion??

11th January 2010, 22:34

Hi guys,

Just looking for some advice really, im going to convert my 1.1i saxo to a 1400 soon and was wondering whether I would need to change the whole wiring loom for the conversion or just the ECU?? (or netheir!!)

I also want to use the clocks from a VTR/VTS/Furio, would I need any additional wiring if I were to use the loom from the 1.1

Thanks in advance!

Andy

12th January 2010, 10:11

Have a search.
You will need the ecu unlocked and them loom to match. You may want to weld in a top engine mount from a VT

13th January 2010, 11:48

With the new clocks the rev counter probably wont work.
I put VTS clocks in my 1.1 east coast, and i had to run a wire from the ecu to the back of the clocks to get the revs to work.
There isn't much information out there regarding the wiring of the clocks either, so it's a bit of trial and error.
Unless you used the interior loom from the 1400 car too.

13th January 2010, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

Hi guys,

Just looking for some advice really, im going to convert my 1.1i saxo to a 1400 soon and was wondering whether I would need to change the whole wiring loom for the conversion or just the ECU?? (or netheir!!)

I also want to use the clocks from a VTR/VTS/Furio, would I need any additional wiring if I were to use the loom from the 1.1

Thanks in advance!

Andy

why bother? just sell up and buy a 1.4 and you will save money tbh the gains are quiet small unless your going to go to vt standard

13th January 2010, 12:09

if you want a furio mines for sale at the moment. havent got a progress thread but its up in piston heads. its the black one with white vtr wheels onit. only done 57k have a look and bell me if your interested.

13th January 2010, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel09

why bother? just sell up and buy a 1.4 and you will save money tbh the gains are quiet small unless your going to go to vt standard

Selling up and buying a 1.4 would be your best option tbh.
If you do the conversion yourself, there's all kinds of expensive problems you can come across, and getting someone else to do it for you would be lots of money...
Insurance isn't that much more over a 1.1 at all.
My insurance was 1500 for a 1.1, 1700 for a 1.4 and 1800 for a vtr.

And also you'll get the bodykit and better suspension/brakes setup.

13th January 2010, 17:48

Why not just put a VTR engine in there?

Makes more sense really, VTR engines are cheap compared to VTS ones and tbh VTS would be dangerous with 1.1 tiny front discs and rear drums.

13th January 2010, 20:43

thanks guys, the main reason I am transplanting the engine for a 1400cc is so that I can enter the 'upto 1400cc' class on National B stage rally's but I may just go for the 1600 option as it seems to be a good compromise.

A'll start looking for a 1600, will I need anything else apart from:

Wiring loom
ECU
Engine
VTR Clocks
How about the gearbox??

Cheers

13th January 2010, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveWC

Why not just put a VTR engine in there?

Makes more sense really, VTR engines are cheap compared to VTS ones and tbh VTS would be dangerous with 1.1 tiny front discs and rear drums.

Oh...and the 1.1 disc's wont be staying, will probably be something like 206gti calipers & disc on the front....also there will hopefully be a rear disc conversion on the back

13th January 2010, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

thanks guys, the main reason I am transplanting the engine for a 1400cc is so that I can enter the 'upto 1400cc' class on National B stage rally's but I may just go for the 1600 option as it seems to be a good compromise.

A'll start looking for a 1600, will I need anything else apart from:

Wiring loom
ECU
Engine
VTR Clocks
How about the gearbox??

Cheers

PS....if anyone has a complete VTR engine for sale (cheap ish) can you PM me please? Im in the Bristol area

14th January 2010, 18:26

Right...found a VTR engine complete, do I need different engine mounts?

14th January 2010, 19:41

You'll need the top engine mount that comes with the engine, and i think you have to do some cutting or welding to get that mount to fit.
It should be apparent when you try and fit the mount i'd imagine.

Edit: If you're going to be doing 1600 competition, a vts engine would be a much better base for mods.. and you can normally pick up everything you need for around 300 quid.

14th January 2010, 22:57

I had a chat with someone on another forum earlier, and he said that I would need to weld in an engine cradle from another higher spec model than mine in addition to the engine mounts. Is this correct?

14th January 2010, 23:10

whats a engine cradle? as far as i know its just the left hand side engine mount that needs to be welded on, apart from that try and get an engine from the same year as yours as if you've got a single plug ecu you will need to use an engine that uses a single plug ecu and if you've got a three plug ecu then you need to use an engine that uses the three plug ecu apart from that it should be plug and play

14th January 2010, 23:17

OK, thanks well the engine im buying is a single plug but the engine in it is a 1.1i and the car is 2001. Dont know which would be which plug?? Although im getting the loom with the engine.

Does anyone have an example of the left hand side engine mount welded on?

Thanks

I will attatch a pic of the cradle that he sent me!

14th January 2010, 23:22

well a 2001 saxo would use a three plug loom, it can be done but from what ive heard changing your car from a one plug to a three plug is hard

14th January 2010, 23:23

oh bollocks!

14th January 2010, 23:26

Unless you get a single plug interior loom, then its a lot easier.

You can get single > three plug loom adaptors iirc

14th January 2010, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rey

Unless you get a single plug interior loom, then its a lot easier.

You can get single > three plug loom adaptors iirc

Loom adaptors are really expensive though

15th January 2010, 00:02

it might be easier to get the interior loom from a single plug car, but you might have to use the analogue clocks out of a mk1 instead of your digital clocks as they will need the loom from a three plug car, why did citroen make this sooooo confusing lol

15th January 2010, 00:06

basically if your fitting a single plug enigne in to a three plug car you will need to fit the interior loom out of a single plug car so the two looms match up, simple

15th January 2010, 00:07

and the only difference between the two interior looms are the clocks (mk1 use analogue, mk2 use digital)

15th January 2010, 12:30

Would it be possible to obtain a 3 plug ecu and engine loom and use that with the engine?? Although the engine comes with the 1 plug ECU?

15th January 2010, 13:26

Yes it would, some sensors would require changing to suit the three plug loom

15th January 2010, 14:18

Dear forum members,
i need some help regarding a 1.6 saxo vts

to be more exact my friend needs some help
but he doesnt speak any english

PRobLem: only 3 cylinders are running. (sometimes) the case was good at the beginning when all four worked before it was reved but now only 3 cylinders work all the time)
the car is not used due to the problem. (publictransp. :'( )
we tryed changing the spark plugs but the problem persisted we changed the thing that you put onto the sparkplugs with the rubber nipples (sorry dont know what it is called in english) it didnt fix the problem
we are going to measure the compression ratio to see if intake outlet valves are good. no data yet.
the engine header was upgraded a little i think
if we take it off again the engine will be trash and its fastened up real tight with god knows how much Nm

im thinking there is a problem with the cables feeding the the black thing that gives electricity to the spark plugs or the computer. can this be the problem?
has anybody had this problem.
we dont know anything about the electronics , we put the car together with much care!

15th January 2010, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rey

Yes it would, some sensors would require changing to suit the three plug loom

Do you know which sensors in particular?

15th January 2010, 18:54

Not a clue I'm afraid buddy

16th January 2010, 01:35

sorry mate im not sure either, like i said its always easier to get an engine from a car the same year as yours lol there are people on here that have done it keep researching you'll find out in the end

16th January 2010, 12:45

Problem solved now, im not buying the engine. Im going to take the advice given on here and look for an appropriate 3 plus ECU engine. Anyone know of etheir a VTR engine or a 1400 (prefer the latter)

Cheers

16th January 2010, 13:08

pm S8TTG - I think he's got a 3 plug 1400 8v loom and unlocked Ecu to match it.

He's got the inlet, engine etc. to go with it - not sure what condition the engine is in though. Worth a pm though

16th January 2010, 13:20

Thanks mate, sent him a PM. Definately interested if he has got one. If anyone else has/knows of anyone who has a 1400 TU engine please PM me

thanks

16th January 2010, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

Thanks mate, sent him a PM. Definately interested if he has got one. If anyone else has/knows of anyone who has a 1400 TU engine please PM me

thanks

where abouts are you located? I'll be home next week (S8TTG is my brother) and can pick any thing reasonable sized and bring it upto Loughborough.

He's not on here hugely so feel free to pm if you want me to pass anything on etc.

16th January 2010, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

Hi guys,

Just looking for some advice really, im going to convert my 1.1i saxo to a 1400 soon and was wondering whether I would need to change the whole wiring loom for the conversion or just the ECU?? (or netheir!!)

I also want to use the clocks from a VTR/VTS/Furio, would I need any additional wiring if I were to use the loom from the 1.1

Thanks in advance!

Andy

you do relise that if you put the engine in your self its actually now illegal?
its goto be done by a garage with receipts or the insurers wont accept it, unless your using it for private use x. Just thought id let you know.

16th January 2010, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

where abouts are you located? I'll be home next week (S8TTG is my brother) and can pick any thing reasonable sized and bring it upto Loughborough.

He's not on here hugely so feel free to pm if you want me to pass anything on etc.

Im in Bristol mate, do you know how much he would want for it and what kind of condition its in?

16th January 2010, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

Im in Bristol mate, do you know how much he would want for it and what kind of condition its in?

the whole lot?

The engine has been sat for a year, all the loom, inlet, sensors, Ecu etc. have been sat inside the house so are all good to go. I'm just not 100% about the engine, the head would be fine to use but would need to check the bottom end.

Not sure about price tbh - that'd be his call really. I've told him your interested so i'm sure he'll be on shortly !

16th January 2010, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

the whole lot?

The engine has been sat for a year, all the loom, inlet, sensors, Ecu etc. have been sat inside the house so are all good to go. I'm just not 100% about the engine, the head would be fine to use but would need to check the bottom end.

Not sure about price tbh - that'd be his call really. I've told him your interested so i'm sure he'll be on shortly !

Ok nice one, well I would need the whole lot. Only thing I need to check is if it is a 3 plug loom as mine is at the moment and I would need the new engine to be 3 plug loom also.

If he has any pics, could he send them to andy_faulkner@hotmail.com

Cheers

16th January 2010, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

Ok nice one, well I would need the whole lot. Only thing I need to check is if it is a 3 plug loom as mine is at the moment and I would need the new engine to be 3 plug loom also.

If he has any pics, could he send them to andy_faulkner@hotmail.com

Cheers

I'll see what he can do, if not i'll send you some pictures over next Thursday when I get home.

Not 100% about engine tbh (just trying to be honest), would need new cambelt, waterpump, tensioner pulley, good service, new filter, plugs etc. and might be worth doing headgasket at the same time before fitting just due to it being sat up for a bit. He'll give you details and i'll send some pics across next week if he hasnt

16th January 2010, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

I'll see what he can do, if not i'll send you some pictures over next Thursday when I get home.

Not 100% about engine tbh (just trying to be honest), would need new cambelt, waterpump, tensioner pulley, good service, new filter, plugs etc. and might be worth doing headgasket at the same time before fitting just due to it being sat up for a bit. He'll give you details and i'll send some pics across next week if he hasnt

Hopefully will be cheap then!

I would be doing the cambelt anyways just to be safe!

16th January 2010, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniacmart

you do relise that if you put the engine in your self its actually now illegal?
its goto be done by a garage with receipts or the insurers wont accept it, unless your using it for private use x. Just thought id let you know.

I'm pretty certain that's not true.
I just changed the engine in my car, rang the insurers up just to make sure it was ok, and they just noted it down on my documents.
I think some companies do ask for a report from the garage, and when declaring it with the DVLA, they can also ask for a report.

If you're looking for 1.4 engines, there are always loads around on ebay. I saw one the other day that had been made up from brand new parts, but had never been put in a car.

16th January 2010, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsavill90

I'm pretty certain that's not true.
I just changed the engine in my car, rang the insurers up just to make sure it was ok, and they just noted it down on my documents.
I think some companies do ask for a report from the garage, and when declaring it with the DVLA, they can also ask for a report.

If you're looking for 1.4 engines, there are always loads around on ebay. I saw one the other day that had been made up from brand new parts, but had never been put in a car.

Im sure thats not right as well. There may be a stipulation on some insurance policies, and by the DVLA that it must be certified as 'safe' by a garage but im not sure. Loads of people change engines, and its just a case of notifying the DVLA with the relevant engine numbers and the change in capacity

16th January 2010, 16:03

further to my last message, and to clarify. From the DVLA direct.gov website:

Change to engine and cylinder capacity (engine size)

DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:

a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

16th January 2010, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

further to my last message, and to clarify. From the DVLA direct.gov website:

Change to engine and cylinder capacity (engine size)

DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:

a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

That's interesting.
I'd better get a letter from my garage before i send off my registration document then

17th January 2010, 22:52

After a Pug 106 XSi head as well if anyone has one lying about they wanna sell me??

19th January 2010, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkers

further to my last message, and to clarify. From the DVLA direct.gov website:

Change to engine and cylinder capacity (engine size)

DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:

a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

ooh sorry if i got it wrong, i swore i read it was made illegal, and it had t be done by a garage somewhere, probs maxpower haha x