JP4 Engine??

1. BezzaB Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Telford Posts: 225 Posi Blue Saxo VTS ;)

   #1 1st February 2010, 11:50

   Ive seen and heard about these JP4 engines!! ... Could someone tell what they are? What there out of? How good are they? .. General info ...
   
   Cheers
2. gaz4399 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Chester Posts: 2850 1275 mini

   #2 1st February 2010, 11:54

   they come from mainly c2s. from what i know they run bigger valves. also they are fitted to newer cars so they tend to have a lot less miles and be in much better condition than j4 saxo engines and cheeper in some cases.
   
   ive heard putting saxo vts cams in a jp4 engine is a good combo
3. Jo3fish Established Member Joined: Jul 2009 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 1267 03 EP3

   #3 1st February 2010, 12:02

   Do the same rule's apply when fitting a jp4 engine?
   
   e.g. 3 plug with 3 plug etc.
   
   is the wiring the same, unplug and plug the new one in?
   
   Joe
4. Aron Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic

   #4 1st February 2010, 12:03

   They are just the newer version of the J4 engine with bigger valves and slightly different cam profile.
   
   You can get them from C2, 307 couple of others
5. gaz4399 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Chester Posts: 2850 1275 mini

   #5 1st February 2010, 12:09

   i know they just bolt in like the j4 lumps, not too sure on the looms etc
6. Jo3fish Established Member Joined: Jul 2009 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 1267 03 EP3

   #6 1st February 2010, 12:26

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by gaz4399 i know they just bolt in like the j4 lumps, not too sure on the looms etc

   Ahh i see, is there anyone on here who has done this conversion?
   
   Theres a 106 gti with one in on 106owners (link)
   
   Im just playing with things to do with some savings.
   
   Joe
7. gaz4399 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Chester Posts: 2850 1275 mini

   #7 1st February 2010, 12:28

   its been done a lot, someone one here will give you definitive advice. i think it may be a striaght swop for your car as its a 2002 and will be 3plug i think
8. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #8 1st February 2010, 12:30

   You change the loom to a J4 one and swap all the J4 sensors over ircc.
   
   Have a search there will be plenty of info on them.
9. leighk18 Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 stafford (hixon) Posts: 743 red mk1 vts

   #9 1st February 2010, 12:52

   i no a lad who running one in a 106 too so sure it it straight forward mate
10. Daniel09 Established Member Joined: Jul 2009 N.wales! Posts: 1024 slammed VTS

    #10 1st February 2010, 12:57

    speak to steffrallye, hes building a monster of and engine jp4, 708's throttle boddies
11. Sandy309 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Cornwall Posts: 349 106 XSi

    #11 1st February 2010, 13:56

    It's not straight forward, you need most of the J4 parts to run it in a Saxo/106. Yes newer, lower mileage engines, but that's about it, the bigger valves aren't really worth squat in reality, I still think the J4 engine produces a better engine overall for most people.
12. ryanmt Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5

    #12 1st February 2010, 14:00

    You just use the block and head off the JP4 usually. then alot of the orginal vts bits.. sump, ecu, loom, manifolds etc. Some people put the vts springs, lifters and cams in too as the standard ones in the JP4 are quite mild.
13. Jo3fish Established Member Joined: Jul 2009 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 1267 03 EP3

    #13 1st February 2010, 14:48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ryanmt You just use the block and head off the JP4 usually. then alot of the orginal vts bits.. sump, ecu, loom, manifolds etc. Some people put the vts springs, lifters and cams in too as the standard ones in the JP4 are quite mild.

    ahhh i see... what i wanted to hear
14. user_16990 Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 810 2001 VTS

    #14 1st February 2010, 18:44

    Be good to see some back to back testing of the J4 head and the JP4 head with the same cams etc!
15. TomVtr389 Regular Poster Joined: Dec 2008 Holbeach Posts: 357 S2 Rallye

    #15 1st February 2010, 18:55

    I got a jp4 in mine, cams, lifters, inlet, mani, starter, alternator from my gti. And she was away, kept the same wiring loom and ecu. And to be fair, its a damn sight quicker than any gti's in my town.
16. Sandy309 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Cornwall Posts: 349 106 XSi

    #16 1st February 2010, 19:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Finchowned Be good to see some back to back testing of the J4 head and the JP4 head with the same cams etc!

    Charlie Saville did just that and posted the results on 106RR a few years back. The JP4 head was slightly better numbers wise with standard cams,but bear in mind, you won't feel a difference in power of less than 5-7bhp! I've built several medium and high spec engines with both heads, modified obviously; but the theme is the same throughout, JP4 slightly better for peak power, but spec for spec the J4 has better mid range, driving manners and throttle response. Hence my assertion that the J4 is better overall for most people. The peakier nature of JP4 head based engines tends to make them seem faster I find.
17. BezzaB Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Telford Posts: 225 Posi Blue Saxo VTS ;)

    #17 2nd February 2010, 19:22

    So what is the J4 engine out of? ... and where would i get one from?
18. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #18 2nd February 2010, 19:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bezzab so what is the j4 engine out of? ... And where would i get one from?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aron they are just the newer version of the j4 engine with bigger valves and slightly different cam profile. You can get them from c2, 307 couple of others

    . .
19. dans_vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 100 2000 Black Citroen Saxo VTS

    #19 2nd February 2010, 20:45

    There are different power outputs dependant on the car its from - i.e. with the 207 xsi its 209 hp even though its the TU5JP4. What restricts the power from different TU5JP4 blocks?
20. user_16990 Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 810 2001 VTS

    #20 2nd February 2010, 21:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BezzaB So what is the J4 engine out of? ... and where would i get one from?

    J4 engine is from the GTi/VTS. JP4 engine can be found in the Citroen C2, Pug 307 and Pug 207 as well as others (206 and Xsara spring to mind).
    
    Different power will be dictated by different cams, maps and internals I'd imagine.
    
    When funds allow think I'll go down the route of a JP4 head on a J4 bottom end. Might get it rolling roaded too to see how much of increase in power there is
21. Docsamty Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Oxfordshire - Banbury Posts: 713 S1 Rallye

    #21 2nd February 2010, 21:21

    Is the JP4 Head a direct fit onto the J4 Block then?
22. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #22 2nd February 2010, 21:23

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Docsamty Is the JP4 Head a direct fit onto the J4 Block then?

    it bolts down - then you have to try and get the compression ratio you want and watch valve clearances if running cams. Can get around these with a thicker HG, or hi comp pistons
23. BezzaB Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Telford Posts: 225 Posi Blue Saxo VTS ;)

    #23 3rd February 2010, 19:36

    This all sounds like alot of fun =]
    ... i may do this when the money starts rolling =]
24. boz Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2005 somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea Posts: 8774 Mk2 VTS track mk1 turbo vts scooby engined 2CV

    #24 5th February 2010, 13:54

    im sure you need to drill and tap a few holes to run the vts inlet setup??