Losing the back end...

1. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

   #1 9th February 2010, 00:20

   I've just bought a Saxo VTR and its getting to be abit dodgey to drive! The back end keeps coming round on me when i'm driving at any pace above normal traffic rate. It seems mainly to be on roundabouts and sharper corners but it has happened in other places. I'm not driving ridiculously fast or anything like that, just at a decent pace.
   I've lowered the rear about 60mm and i'm waiting for my FK coilovers to be delivered. It has 4 nexen tyres with less than 1000 miles on them. Any reason why it would be doing this? Are the tyres its come with that terrible? Or could it be to do with something else?
   
   Cheers for any help, don't want it in a hedge just over a week after i picked it up!
   
   Sam
2. Merrick L-plater Joined: Jan 2010 Wolverhampton Posts: 77 Posi VTR Mk2

   #2 9th February 2010, 00:35

   Check your rear tyre pressures, if they are very low that may cause oversteer, check the tread aswell, anything that might be resulting in loss of traction. Something is definately wrong, as you shouldn't be able to make the car oversteer under normal driving conditions unless you were really trying too.
3. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

   #3 9th February 2010, 00:37

   I'll check the pressures in the morning. The treads are fine, as i say the tyres are less than 1000 miles old, they still look new even!
4. user_7076 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 Milton Keynes Posts: 8504 Audi A1 S-Line, Mazda MX5 Kuro, Renault Clio 1.2,

   #4 9th February 2010, 00:49

   Well you've lowered it without putting correct shock absorbers. They are meant to work at the standard height so you're always going to have handling problems if they are stretched and bottoming out because you've lowered it.
   
   Get the right shock absorbers on there and you should be fine.
   
   Scott.
5. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

   #5 9th February 2010, 00:52

   Sorry my bad, i forgot to add that i've put bilstein rear shocks on it too. So thats not the problem :/
6. saxybitch Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Birmingham Posts: 29 None as of yet still lookin.....

   #6 9th February 2010, 00:58

   most probably tyre pressure mate i had serious traction problems then checked my tyre pressure and it way to high
7. impuLz L-plater Joined: Jul 2009 Milton Keynes Posts: 32 Peugeot 106 Independence 1.1L

   #7 9th February 2010, 01:00

   if its not the shocks or tread loss / crap tyres ..
   
   then it would most likely be the pressures as been said- normally too high gives some odd responses as i found out on my old wheels lol
8. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

   #8 9th February 2010, 01:20

   What should my pressures be?
9. Merrick L-plater Joined: Jan 2010 Wolverhampton Posts: 77 Posi VTR Mk2

   #9 9th February 2010, 01:22

   I think its 30psi on the rears, best to check in the manual though
10. saxybitch Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Birmingham Posts: 29 None as of yet still lookin.....

    #10 9th February 2010, 01:23

    you got standard sized wheels?
11. saxybitch Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Birmingham Posts: 29 None as of yet still lookin.....

    #11 9th February 2010, 01:23

    and have you got low profile tyers?
12. DannoVTR L-plater Joined: Jan 2010 Bangor/Bethesda Posts: 58 Billet 7175 Supra. Escort RS Turbo. Mk1 VTS White

    #12 9th February 2010, 01:23

    I'de leave it.. more fun
13. saxybitch Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Birmingham Posts: 29 None as of yet still lookin.....

    #13 9th February 2010, 01:25

    lmao could lead to an accident or rapid wear of tyres though, like the enthusiasm though
14. johnyh Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Shropshire Posts: 127 Corsa VXR Arctic

    #14 9th February 2010, 01:25

    pretty sure its 30 back 32 front?
15. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

    #15 9th February 2010, 01:26

    alright cheers i'll go and have a check in the morning and drag the compressor out..
16. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

    #16 9th February 2010, 01:27

    Yeah wheels are the standard ones and tyres are 185/55/14
17. saxybitch Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Birmingham Posts: 29 None as of yet still lookin.....

    #17 9th February 2010, 02:09

    >>29 rear<<
    >>32 front<<
18. user_39430 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2009 Northern Monkey Posts: 17064 Work van che.

    #18 9th February 2010, 08:10

    36 front
    32/34 in the rear - Its in the manual
19. liam-o Established Member Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 1346

    #19 9th February 2010, 09:19

    Its actually 2.2 bar front 2.0 bar in the back (as indicated by the sticker inside the drivers door) and its certainly not 36-32psi!
20. Ashleyp Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504

    #20 9th February 2010, 09:23

    2 thing's id suggest:
    
    - are the rear shocks bilstein groupN's? these can cause oversteer if on standard torsion bars
    
    - are you lifting your foor off the accelerator / braking when going round corners?
    
    the second would be the most obvious reason imo. nobodys mentioned it though.
21. Stevo123 Established Member Joined: Apr 2009 Redcar Posts: 1971 2000 Posi Blue vtr

    #21 9th February 2010, 14:14

    Agreed, back end is too stiff compared to the front. Also if you have low quality/less grippy tyres on the back it would cause this as well, speaking from experience.
    Hope you get it sorted, you must be a bag of nerves in this weather
22. citroen_saxo_vtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2006 Norwich Posts: 2823 Vectra sri 2.6 v6

    #22 9th February 2010, 18:20

    34psi fronts and 30psi on rears if your running standard vtr alloys with 185/55/R14, i have it in my door shut for that size tyre.
23. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

    #23 12th February 2010, 21:10

    Ashley, its not lift off oversteer mate, i've been involved in different car racing from about 14 so i know what the crack is with that Checked the pressures and the back was about 22 psi! So i've put them up to the recommended pressures and i'll see what its like now.
    
    Stevo, see you're from Redcar, i'm only from Staithes! In Redcar pretty much every night of the week haha. Its a posi blue vtr, R reg, give us a flash if you see me about
24. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #24 12th February 2010, 21:16

    Are the rear wheels straight or does one or both have negative camber? Could be the beam is shot - very common thing. If you have any doubts, get it checked out by a reputable garage, i.e Manicmotors in Sunderland.
    
    If all seems straight, what is the rear ride height like relative to the front? Slamming it on its arse dials out oversteer to a point, but you then tend to get snap oversteer when pushing too hard. I prefer to keep the height near enough as Citroen intended, i.e the rear a tad higher than the front to account for loads in the boot, passengers etc. Prefer the feel too, but each to their own.
25. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

    #25 12th February 2010, 21:26

    The rear beam is fine mate, no camber or play on the arms or anything like that.
    
    The rear ride height is dropped about 55mm, front is standard as of yet, still waiting for coilovers to arrive! I'll wait and see what difference the tyre pressures make if any and if not, I'll see if fitting the coilies and leveling it out cures my problem, but i wouldn't think it should be this bad regardless of front height..
26. Saxo-Guy Regular Poster Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 477

    #26 13th February 2010, 12:03

    Did you adjust the brake bias thing ? after you lowered it ? Cant remember exactly what its called
27. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #27 13th February 2010, 18:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Saxo-Guy Did you adjust the brake bias thing ? after you lowered it ? Cant remember exactly what its called

    Brake bias valvecould the rear beam be bent & throwing the camber out just a thought?
    
    
    Steve.
28. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #28 13th February 2010, 19:01

    55mm on the back and standard height on the front? I think you've found your problem.
29. Stevo123 Established Member Joined: Apr 2009 Redcar Posts: 1971 2000 Posi Blue vtr

    #29 14th February 2010, 11:20

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crooksyVTR Ashley, its not lift off oversteer mate, i've been involved in different car racing from about 14 so i know what the crack is with that Checked the pressures and the back was about 22 psi! So i've put them up to the recommended pressures and i'll see what its like now. Stevo, see you're from Redcar, i'm only from Staithes! In Redcar pretty much every night of the week haha. Its a posi blue vtr, R reg, give us a flash if you see me about

    Will do mate, I got Posi X plate, lowered, standard looking.
30. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #30 14th February 2010, 15:55

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LeeumH 55mm on the back and standard height on the front? I think you've found your problem.

    Certainly won't help matters... but..
    
    Graeme
31. user_10473 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2006 Swansea Posts: 4946 Bianca White Peugeot 106 S2 Rallye, Saxo VTS

    #31 14th February 2010, 16:00

    Driving style if you ask me.
32. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #32 14th February 2010, 16:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crooksyVTR Ashley, its not lift off oversteer mate, i've been involved in different car racing from about 14 so i know what the crack is with that

    Personally I've never had the back step out in any peugeot while on the throttle. Its against the very nature of a FWD car. Have you left the Maccy D's trays under the rear wheels
    
    Graeme
33. crooksyVTR Newbie Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 16

    #33 16th February 2010, 03:55

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LeeumH 55mm on the back and standard height on the front? I think you've found your problem.

    No you haven't? You're assuming that its a problem but you clearly don't have much knowledge of how suspension works. The fact the rear is lowered and the front isn't shouldn't make enough difference to make the car dangerous to drive. I've altered the tyre pressures accordingly and i've not had a problem since. So thanks mate but try again next time yeah?
34. cavyrocks Newbie Joined: Oct 2008 hertfordshire Posts: 5 saxo vtr mk2 and a corsa b gsi

    #34 16th February 2010, 04:55

    if u let off ur iva an idiot or a bottle job just keep ur foot planted spend good muney on gud tyres and u wont have a problem common sense
35. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #35 16th February 2010, 08:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crooksyVTR No you haven't? You're assuming that its a problem but you clearly don't have much knowledge of how suspension works. The fact the rear is lowered and the front isn't shouldn't make enough difference to make the car dangerous to drive. I've altered the tyre pressures accordingly and i've not had a problem since. So thanks mate but try again next time yeah?

    Did I say it would be dangerous to drive? If that's what you believe then fair doos - I've pointed out what I think is the problem, or a major contributor.