cat cam 708's

1. Blxck Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2009 Middlesbrough Posts: 296 MKV Golf GTi

   #1 16th February 2010, 00:55

   hello there, can get a set of cat cam 708's for the saxo vts, but just wondering how do they idle like? are they heavy? and whats the power gain like from them. thanks
2. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

   #2 16th February 2010, 04:20

   They don't idle that heavy, especially after being mapped for them
   
   Expect 140-150 with the standard mods
3. BandyQuill Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Pontefract Posts: 3 Citroen C4 By Loeb

   #3 16th February 2010, 11:30

   im going on a long shot here, been looking at improving the power on my current car, unfortunatly its a C4 1.6, i understand this is the same engine as the Saxo VTS/106 Rallye other than heads and cams, what benefits would some PH3/4 or 708's have on my car, the C4 forums dont really delve into the power side of things more support...
   
   thanks for the help
4. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

   #4 16th February 2010, 15:38

   you've got a TU5JP4 engine and I think that the equivalent 708 cam for this engine has less lift to combat the JP4 head not liking high lift.
   
   Also worth looking at the Newmans PH3 camshaft for your engine (same as c2 1.6 16v)
   
   Might be worth sticking to a cam for your engine as opposed to a vts/gti engine.
   
   You'll have bigger inlet valves than a vts/gti
5. Steffrallye Established Member Joined: Aug 2008 Bodelwyddan , N.Wales Posts: 1252 Peugeot S2 106 GTi 1.6 16v

   #5 16th February 2010, 16:26

   if you was to run 708's or ph3 you would need your pistons pocketing, and gti valve springs,
   
   as above it would be better to find cams for your engine
6. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #6 17th February 2010, 08:41

   What about the poor OP guys? lol. Thread steal!
7. Aron Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic

   #7 17th February 2010, 08:48

   Back to the orignal question... the idle will be fine if mapped correctly. With the normal breathing mods you will be looking around the 145 mark
8. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

   #8 17th February 2010, 08:57

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by BandyQuill im going on a long shot here, been looking at improving the power on my current car, unfortunatly its a C4 1.6, i understand this is the same engine as the Saxo VTS/106 Rallye other than heads and cams, what benefits would some PH3/4 or 708's have on my car, the C4 forums dont really delve into the power side of things more support... thanks for the help

   
   
   no you cannot fit 708,s to any of the later series engines that use elctronic throttle ,as it will not idle well and maybe not at all .
   you definately need to change springs and caps due to lift .
   vlave clash can be got round by altering timing .
   there is no simple way to get big power gains from cars made with fly by wire throttle .
   yes it can be done but not cheaply.
   you would need a stand alone fitted in tandem with std ecu and cable operted t/body or t/bodies to make it work well .then you can have all same mods as a saxo .
   we have done this to c2,s which are basic same engine + ecu system
9. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

   #9 3rd April 2010, 15:45

   What are 708/ph3 cams like unmapped?? How do they idle, etc.
10. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #10 3rd April 2010, 16:11

    Fine when timed up
11. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #11 3rd April 2010, 16:51

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz Fine when timed up

    So when the belt is done right it should idle ok? What difference would there be not mapped to being mapped? Is it just more power?
12. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #12 3rd April 2010, 18:37

    my ph3 with the inlet retarded 2 degrees and exhaust cam at standard mark didnt ilde too bad at all!
    
    did cut out a few times!!
    
    andy
13. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #13 3rd April 2010, 18:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jsdvtr So when the belt is done right it should idle ok? What difference would there be not mapped to being mapped? Is it just more power?

    just means you can optimise the fueling and ignition settings to make full advantage of the cams
14. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #14 3rd April 2010, 18:43

    yer mappping they can fine tweek the cam timing as the timing stated might not the be the timing that will get the most out of the cams in YOUR engine!
    
    also tweek the fueling and ignition settings like stated, but the cat cam cam timing will not always be the best timing on YOUR car, the mapper will check it and adjusted to suit.
    
    andy
15. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #15 3rd April 2010, 18:48

    Well im wanting to get the pred ecu as mapping costs like £3-500 but then the pred is like £600 inc mapping so may aswell pay that bit extra and with the thought of getting bodies later on in the year it will be a worthwhile investment.
16. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #16 3rd April 2010, 20:45

    yer the pred good mate i have one!
    
    good luck, andy will do a good job!
    
    andy
17. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #17 4th April 2010, 10:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AndySAXO yer the pred good mate i have one! good luck, andy will do a good job! andy

    Just waiting for the 3plug to be made lol.
18. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #18 4th April 2010, 12:39

    moving/closing ex cam will biggest dif to idle and move bhp dwon rpm range a little
19. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #19 4th April 2010, 13:06

    that good input, newman cams themself told me unmapped, that the inlet cam retarded 2 degrees will help ilde abit, but only for unmapped just to get it to mapping that all.
    
    andy
20. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #20 4th April 2010, 14:44

    So when you go for mapping they inc the timing, etc inc in the price i pressume? They just charge for how many hours it takes?

    1 user thanked this post: Saxovch22
21. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #21 4th April 2010, 15:16

    yer most mappers will set the timing check it!
    
    andy
22. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #22 4th April 2010, 15:23

    Think i may buy some cams next month. Which are better 708 or ph3??
23. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #23 4th April 2010, 15:25

    both basiclly the same!
    
    newman cams are not as expensive as cat cams though.
    
    andy
24. jsdvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 morecambe Posts: 4286 2003 vtr/s

    #24 4th April 2010, 15:28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AndySAXO both basiclly the same! newman cams are not as expensive as cat cams though. andy

    So neither are better or worse than each other?
    
    Theyre only about £20 difference new though isnt there.