No Power Steering, grrr!

1. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

   #1 23rd February 2010, 20:28

   Just gone out for a drive and power steering has stopped working!
   
   Done a bit of research on the boards and can narrow it down to a few possible causes:
   
   1. Fuse has blown
   2. Relay on the pump has blown
   3. No power steering fluid
   4. Power steering pump is knackered
   
   I don't think the fuse has blown because my heater blower and rear demister still work. I will check the relay in the morning; The haynes manual mentions listening for a "click" upon energising. Any idea at what stage the relay is energised? If no click then its likely the relay has blown. Annoying but not an expensive fix. Does anyone know whether I'd lose the function of my heaters etc if the relay had gone? (I read this somewhere else). I've checked the power steering fluid reservoir; The fluid level is low but there is some remaining - surely not likely to cause a total loss of power steering?! (especially when it was driving fine earlier today). I will top fluids up tomorrow when it has stopped snowing.
   
   Finally, option 4, the one I am totally dreading as it is the most expensive to fix. Ironically, I was at citroen earlier ordering some parts and upon leaving found we were boxed in. It took a lot of steering at very low speeds to get out - I'm wondering if this was the straw that broke the camels back for my power steering pump?!
   
   I'm reluctant to replace the pump until I am sure it isn't any other problem. If anyone has some advice on other checks I could do then that would be very much appreciated .
   
   Thanks
   Keelz
2. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

   #2 23rd February 2010, 21:25

   check the belt on the bottom end pulley, its on the left of the engine, if the pulley has failed then the alternator wont be charging, i think the heating and demister dont work off the alternator on a vtr and do on a vts
3. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

   #3 23rd February 2010, 21:36

   Thanks mate, will check this tomorrow. If the alternator is not charging (e.g. because of pulley failure) will there be any other indicators? For example, a warning light on the dash? or will that only come on once my battery runs down?
4. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

   #4 23rd February 2010, 21:40

   i no on a vts the battery light comes on, but i think the vtr is different and will only be noticeable when the battery runs down. so i think the only sign is pas failure.
5. willsy West Midlands Joined: Nov 2005 Nuneaton (West Mids) Posts: 13835 '64 Volvo V40 R’Design, '89 Ph1 309 GTi, ‘97 Mk1 S

   #5 23rd February 2010, 21:41

   It would be unusual for the pump to pack up without warning- everything perfectly normal up unyil now?
   
   by the sounds of it you've already looked into the basic checks so hopefully itll just be something simple.
   
   Also check for any fluid leaks, maybe one of the pipes have cracked and fluid has been lost.
6. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

   #6 23rd February 2010, 21:47

   when the pas went did you smell burning. thats usually the sign that a belt has sliped
7. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

   #7 23rd February 2010, 21:49

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by willsy It would be unusual for the pump to pack up without warning- everything perfectly normal up unyil now? by the sounds of it you've already looked into the basic checks so hopefully itll just be something simple. Also check for any fluid leaks, maybe one of the pipes have cracked and fluid has been lost.

   Yea, it seems to have just gone (the PAS) without warning...no whining from the pump or anything like that. I do have some steering wheel play that I hadn't got round to investigating yet (only had the car a few weeks)...I don't suppose the steering rack affects the PAS? The first thing I did was look for leaks and couldn't see any. Will check again once I have some daylight.
   
   Interestingly the PAS didnt fail during driving, it was like that from the moment I turned the engine on again since going out in it earlier today.
8. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

   #8 23rd February 2010, 21:51

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by 666saxo666 when the pas went did you smell burning. thats usually the sign that a belt has sliped

   No, didn't notice any smells. It is possible that it is something to do with the alternator/drive belt assembly as only the other day I was working in this area after replacing my cambelt. Literally ordered a new alternator belt today upon noticing the poor condition of my current belt. Will inspect the alternator belt/pulleys tomorrow when I can see what I'm doing .
9. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

   #9 23rd February 2010, 21:57

   the alternator charges the pas so yes..
10. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

    #10 23rd February 2010, 22:36

    Just been out to look under the bonnet and whilst I was there I decided to start the engine to see if I had any indication of low battery (indicating alternator problems). My car was really difficult to start! It was difficult to start just before the PAS failed as well. I let the car warm up and was playing with the heaters etc but still no sign of low battery charge, so I'm pretty sure it's not the alternator...... Incidently, on both occassions (when the car has been difficult to start) it has been sitting unused for a while. Successive starts are fine!
    
    I'm failing to see how PAS is related to how well my car starts....maybe this is another problem! Just a bit of background, the cambelt has recently been changed, but the car started fine after changing the belt, and has driven fine. Also changed the spark plugs...could the engine start problems be related to the spark plugs? Maybe it is just the cold weather...
11. saxotourdecorse Regular Poster Joined: May 2008 Posts: 448 Not a drop of halfords anywhere....

    #11 23rd February 2010, 22:44

    it may be hard to start because the battery is running low, (because your alternator is goosed - and why your pas has gone) the alternator is not charging the battery.
12. coleman258 Established Member Joined: Nov 2008 Eastbourne Posts: 2474 Astra van daily Black Saxo VTR 16v'd kent PT51

    #12 23rd February 2010, 22:47

    By any chance is your car lowered? Have you got fluid all in your engine bay?
13. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

    #13 23rd February 2010, 22:47

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by saxotourdecorse it may be hard to start because the battery is running low, (because your alternator is goosed - and why your pas has gone) the alternator is not charging the battery.

    Wouldn't I have got a battery warning light by now? Plus, I don't have problems starting it when the engine is warm.... Excuse my ignorance, asking questions is how I learn
14. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

    #14 23rd February 2010, 22:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by coleman258 By any chance is your car lowered? Have you got fluid all in your engine bay?

    My car isn't lowered. Only fluid in engine bay is a build up of oil from a seepage from the rocker cover gasket...replacing that and cleaning off oil this weekend! My car was sat unused for two weeks until Saturday. Prior to this I had none of these problems...
15. stokelad84 L-plater Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 79 1.4 Furio 2000

    #15 24th February 2010, 00:43

    Hit the pump with a hammer trust me it worked for me when mine packed in. Had no trouble since.
16. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

    #16 24th February 2010, 00:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stokelad84 Hit the pump with a hammer trust me it worked for me when mine packed in. Had no trouble since.

    Will certainly give this a try
17. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

    #17 24th February 2010, 16:55

    Just a bit of an update:
    
    - No fuses are blown
    - PAS fluid levels are fine
    - No leaks anywhere in the engine
    - Bashing with a hammer didn't work
    - Measured the voltage across the terminals of the battery before and after turning engine on. Voltage increase seen upon turning on engine, so alternator appears to be working fine.
    
    - Relay does not appear to be energising - this might be buggered
    - The motor connected to the pump seems to be inactive, even when hot wiring it.
    
    I'm guessing first port of call would be to replace the relay and just hope it is that
18. Keeley Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2010 Leicestershire Posts: 128 Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR (Wicked red)

    #18 4th March 2010, 18:07

    Changing my relay hasn't fixed the problem so I think I'm looking at a new pump! I'm going to give it one last bash with a hammer; how hard do you guys hit your PAS pumps and where?
    
    Is it worth trying to recondition my pump or shall I just try and get one off the forums?
    
    Keelz
19. SmaxoVTR Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 2 mk1 saxo VT?

    #19 22nd August 2010, 21:47

    hi did you get it fixed ? mines done the same thing.. was on full lock and boom just got a whining sound so im guess the coupler or joint connecting the motor shaft the the pump has sheared :/ everything else is fine ive checked apart from the relay but the motor still whines when you shut the engine off indicating there is no load on it so the pump must not be connected :/
20. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

    #20 22nd August 2010, 21:54

    why don't people just drop a 12v supply to the plug on the pumps and try them? then they would stop suspecting relays,fuses,alternators etc. Its the easiest test for a dodgy pump.
21. VtrJ Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2009 spalding,lincolnshire Posts: 317 saxo vtr 98 C2 VTR 56

    #21 22nd August 2010, 22:05

    I'am in the process of stripping a 98 VTR if you need a pump let me know
22. citroen_saxo_vtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2006 Norwich Posts: 2823 Vectra sri 2.6 v6

    #22 23rd August 2010, 19:43

    Get one of them little alternator and battery testers, it should read 12v with engine off anf 14.2v running. Mine does, most cars will be 14v when charging to compensate for blowers etc. If its under 12v when running your alternator is weak........
23. JollyVTS Newbie Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 4

    #23 30th November 2010, 17:22

    hey guys ,,,
    
    having same problem with my 97 vts ...
    which relay is the PAS one ?
    i went to citreon and they gave a circular relay thing .. the rest of mine are square ?
    
    thanks
24. patt Newbie Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 9

    #24 1st December 2010, 09:51

    Yes, just measure the volts at the pump terminals, or use a 12v bulb! Remember the engine has to be going for the pump to operate. If the alternator doesn't work neither will the steering pump.
25. SidnySaxo Regular Poster Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 369 00 VTR Saxo

    #25 1st December 2010, 13:32

    Hey guys... Mt batt light is on,i have no heaters,no PAS,and no rear diemester! I have done the trick with the brown wires comeing from the ignition on saturday morning but this only lasted me untill yesterday morning? I have a feeling its mt altenater? Can anyone back me up on this asap..
    
    Thanks guys..