Turbo VTS i need info

24th February 2010, 02:17

i have decided im going turbo

im ringing cituning up tomoro to gather some info and prices but would like you here from you guys on what to look out for what to get and what not to get or anything that would or would not be important.

i will not be ragging the guts off the turbo and it wud only see a track proberly once a year

also what are your throughts on the stage 3 turbo?

http://www.cituninguk.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=28511

24th February 2010, 03:20

Many people are using there kits and are happy with them. You would defiantly want a good clutch and twin head gaskets on top. If you keep the boost down and don't go mad will be fine.

24th February 2010, 07:58

It is alot of money. See if you can buy a kit in bits second hand. There are plenty of guys on here with turbo kits that come up forsale also over on 106 owners

24th February 2010, 10:11

I'm running there basic turbo kit on mine currently, I would recommend there setup but there customer service & delivery dates are debatable so you have warned.

There 'stage 3' setup has no forged pistons & rods, so its a disaster waiting to happen.

Bear in mind also there 'kits' do not have proper ignition/fueling management included, you will have to look at some sort of standalone ecu, i'd recommend the Predator ecu which can be found in the affliate section of this forum.

Hope the above helps.

Thanks.

24th February 2010, 12:15

cheers guys

so by the sounds of it the best kit is to get is the stage 1 and buy a predator ecu

think this sounds more reasonable

could you send me the link of the one you have from there site and any extras you may have got

24th February 2010, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by FisherVTS

cheers guys

so by the sounds of it the best kit is to get is the stage 1 and buy a predator ecu

think this sounds more reasonable

could you send me the link of the one you have from there site and any extras you may have got

This is the one I went for

Dont get me wrong, i'm sure the bigger turbo kit (stage 3) will be good also its just I couldnt get the finances to stretch to that & considering how quick mine is now I'm glad in a way I didnt lol

'You' need to choose what you want pal! but certainly the Predator ecu is a step in the right direction and considering there is a few turbo'd & supercharged Saxo out there running this standalone you cant go wrong.

All the basic kit's on cituning's site require quite alot more stuff to make them complete...

Have a read through my progress thread (link in my signature), you'll get an idea of what else is required to complete the basic kits.

ManC

24th February 2010, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by manc

This is the one I went for

Dont get me wrong, i'm sure the bigger turbo kit (stage 3) will be good also its just I couldnt get the finances to stretch to that & considering how quick mine is now I'm glad in a way I didnt lol

'You' need to choose what you want pal! but certainly the Predator ecu is a step in the right direction and considering there is a few turbo'd & supercharged Saxo out there running this standalone you cant go wrong.

All the basic kit's on cituning's site require quite alot more stuff to make them complete...

Have a read through my progress thread (link in my signature), you'll get an idea of what else is required to complete the basic kits.

ManC

cheers pal yeh iv been reading parts of it looking good
are you running your PH3 cams with it aswell then? iv still got mine in teh shed and throught i would need the PH4. and did they offer you teh turbo on finance at cituning? if so then i should have it in no time

and do they offer to fit it for you?

24th February 2010, 18:21

Tbh mate ide not tuch cituning with a barge pole

Ide go with the dp kit
http://www.dp-engineering.nl/EN/prod..._16v_compo.php

24th February 2010, 18:21

dp kit is superb tbh !!!! but you pay for the quality !!!

24th February 2010, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

dp kit is superb tbh !!!! but you pay for the quality !!!

2nd that

24th February 2010, 18:35

do they supply and fit?

i need a place who would do it for me as i dont have a clue fitting or building turbos lol

24th February 2010, 18:41

They might do but there based holland

I really recommend ricky-p but he is based in barnsley
Ask on here if any one can fit it for you

24th February 2010, 18:42

would this kit be more easy for me?

and ill get them to fit it aswell
http://www.cituninguk.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=28509
also have my PH3 cams, followers and predator ecu and get them to do it all?

24th February 2010, 18:43

ATSpeed are dealers of DP stuff so can fit them all etc. give them a pm is prob best or a call

24th February 2010, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FisherVTS

do they supply and fit?

i need a place who would do it for me as i dont have a clue fitting or building turbos lol

ATSPEED racing are main suppliers of the PIMP dp engineering kit and they will also build it for you...

if you need any more convincing look at colins car. they are also traders on saxp.

24th February 2010, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

ATSPEED racing are main suppliers of the PIMP dp engineering kit and they will also build it for you...

if you need any more convincing look at colins car. they are also traders on saxp.

have you got a contact number for this company that would fit it for me?

24th February 2010, 18:46

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=287698

24th February 2010, 18:48

cheers pal
ill have to give them a call tomoro and see what they can offer me

24th February 2010, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FisherVTS

would this kit be more easy for me?

and ill get them to fit it aswell
http://www.cituninguk.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=28509
also have my PH3 cams, followers and predator ecu and get them to do it all?

Yeah, but i don't recommed cituning

You could ask spoox motorsports if they will fit it for you
Why dont you get the pred fitted first?

I can get you a custom turbo kit made but the guy will need the car for a lenghty period of time

Pm me if you want some details

24th February 2010, 19:42

any form of boost with no intercooler is a waste of time.every 10c you increase inlet temp you MUST loose 3to5% in power --thats physics .
don,t kid yourself -- you need an intercooler at anything above 4 psi
I have had non intercooled turbo conversions on my dyno and 8 psi will give 100c of inlet temp after holding it for only 15secs at full power in the summer.
when did you last see even a diesel turbo without an intercooler--never

24th February 2010, 19:48

if you want your car to last and be set up correctly - drop if off at Johns.... his signature says it all. . .

24th February 2010, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

dp kit is superb tbh !!!! but you pay for the quality !!!

i still consider the DP manifold and downpipe VERY cheap for what it is... to get a manifold made over here in the UK that matches that quality would cost you well in excess of £800! i certainly wouldnt want to make it for the price they charge.

they are also covered under warranty.

we have sold dozens of these, and use them on our own cars... seriously cant recommend them highly enough...

turbo conversions dont come cheap... proper ones anyway... i am pleased to see that more and more people are doing them properly and avoiding the "ebay turbo kit" route.

anyone who has done a PROPER conversion will tell you that even for a basic conversion you are looking at least around £6000.

- colin.

24th February 2010, 20:12

6k does that include the petrol to get you home... lol wassstsshhh dooh... where's sainsburys... lol

24th February 2010, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

any form of boost with no intercooler is a waste of time.every 10c you increase inlet temp you MUST loose 3to5% in power --thats physics .
don,t kid yourself -- you need an intercooler at anything above 4 psi
I have had non intercooled turbo conversions on my dyno and 8 psi will give 100c of inlet temp after holding it for only 15secs at full power in the summer.
when did you last see even a diesel turbo without an intercooler--never

i second that this company is very helpfull.... but if your gonna spend alot of money buy it peice buy peice i would first get the manifold and turbo bolt that on as a trial to see where the pipe work for the intercooler needs to go and yes an intercooler is a must if you want a reliable car and not one that will get the charge air to hot... the fitting of a turbocharger and an air cooler can increase engine power even more. An Intercooler removes the heat of compression between the stages of a compressor whereas an aftercooler reduces the temperature of the air leaving the compressor. Delivering cold air means that there is more oxygen per cylinder (cold air has a higher density than warm air) thus more engine power.....

as for set up and price its all down to the money you want to spend as to how good a set up you get ....... there is one key factor in turboing a natural asperated car ......its not CHEAP

24th February 2010, 20:28

It is a well known fact that I do not think the turbo route is a good one for fwd cars and the saxo .
I will say if you are really only going to run low boost then alot of the heat related problems you will not get .
you cannot get way from the lack of space in the front how ever .
If I make a suggestion --find out exactly the total cost for your turbo cnversion inc fitting--and i do mean total cost .then give me a ring , if would consider a s/c boost conversion and I think you will be suprised on the end results as far as price goes when compare like with like

24th February 2010, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

It is a well known fact that I do not think the turbo route is a good one for fwd cars and the saxo .
I will say if you are really only going to run low boost then alot of the heat related problems you will not get .
you cannot get way from the lack of space in the front how ever .
If I make a suggestion --find out exactly the total cost for your turbo cnversion inc fitting--and i do mean total cost .then give me a ring , if would consider a s/c boost ocnversion and I think you will be suprised on the end results as far as price goes when compare like with like

I'll be going this route in September, will be giving you a call to order the parts !! Should go nicely with a set of TB's

24th February 2010, 20:37

id rather not think about what ive spent john

turbo vs supercharging costs...

the basic components are still there... the management, your engine parts, sensors, fuel and ignition upgrades etc... intercoolers, pipework, hosing... oil cooling... the prices start varying when it comes to the hardware... a supercharger system will normally work alongside peoples existing upgrades, exhaust systems etc, whereas obviously a turbo requires custom exhaust components to be bought.

- colin.

24th February 2010, 20:49

I don,t dare calculate what i spent SO far on my car.LOL and its still not finished

25th February 2010, 01:54

hmmmm all sounds really techniquel and exspensive route to go
i was also thinking ealier

if i even went for a stage 1 to start off with would cost me proberly 3-4k to get it all up and running sweet but ill only gain 40-50 bhp

but for half that price i could throttle body my car to get the same amount of bhp and it would be alot nicer on the engine.

to go straight into the supercharge or turbo charge i would still requier a heck alot of work on the engine getting it skimmed and upgraded etc it does sound alot of work and something that would take a long time to correct where as im the sort to just get it over and done with and dont like waiting lol

25th February 2010, 08:53

mate look into throttle bodies to get get anywhere near 180 bhp you going to have to get better pistons and so on. You really wouldnt get fed up with hearing the bodies im going down bodies as its more reliable and the sound is epic Pm raunchz he can tell you a lot more than me

25th February 2010, 09:01

turbo/supercharge is by far better value for money if you are wanting anywhere near 200hp

25th February 2010, 09:23

If this the last money you are spedning then yes to get 40-50 bhp then n/a is cheapest
however if going further then the boosted route is the way.
once you have bought the expensive bits ,then you can have alot more power for very little extra cost .
example -- if you can bolt things on yourself then your 4k will give you the right equipment to get 280bhp ---more than 100% increase .but you could start by running std internals and restrict the boost ,then when money allows ,change for forged internals and let it have its head.
.
the biggest difference between s/c + turbo on the instaalation is you need no oil suppy to charger unit ,no water cooling --so you can actually fit an s/c kit yorself in a weekend ,using al your std ex manifld etc .etc . you can even fit it and run std ecu ,with boost piep not fitted -until you take it to get it mapped.
we also have a map for the predator ,so yuo can P+N+P
the s/c is far more sympathetic to your transmission ,as you will not get a mass change inbhp at low rpm ,some will say that is the down side -

the s/c increase the power directly proportional to rpm increase --there is no "big" spool up point to cause traction + detonation problems .
you can even run std comp ratio ,providing you keep boost down to 6-7 psi,,which means off bost performance is same as it was before ,no drop in off bost performance

25th February 2010, 16:27

i have been bulding my turbo ax since late november now and still not finished yet there is a shit load to do if its a turbo compaired to the s/c and im just running low boost not a full blown monster and as said above the colder the air going in the better

25th February 2010, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxy89

mate look into throttle bodies to get get anywhere near 180 bhp you going to have to get better pistons and so on. You really wouldnt get fed up with hearing the bodies im going down bodies as its more reliable and the sound is epic Pm raunchz he can tell you a lot more than me

i thnk maybe this is teh optian im going to take for this this engine but its not over for teh turbo.

im going to buy another engine to keep in the garage to rebuild fully. while doing this i can uprate all teh internals and pretty much build the turbo in the garage with my dad. that way i can long it out as much as i want to complete the turbo. then once i have almost finished it i could even fit my bodies on the turbo and have it up and running in no time. this sort of thing would proberly take 1-2 years to complete but im willing to do it and buy things bit by bit when money is in my hands

ill make a new thread talking about bodies and i can use both for advise on both engines

thanks for your help guys and hope this also comes in handy for other people

25th February 2010, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by FisherVTS

hmmmm all sounds really techniquel and exspensive route to go
i was also thinking ealier

if i even went for a stage 1 to start off with would cost me proberly 3-4k to get it all up and running sweet but ill only gain 40-50 bhp

but for half that price i could throttle body my car to get the same amount of bhp and it would be alot nicer on the engine.

to go straight into the supercharge or turbo charge i would still requier a heck alot of work on the engine getting it skimmed and upgraded etc it does sound alot of work and something that would take a long time to correct where as im the sort to just get it over and done with and dont like waiting lol

you dont skim heads for turbo or supercharged m8

25th February 2010, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sliderz

you dont skim heads for turbo or supercharged m8

well that depends if you can say ure head is in perfect condition you may not think there is a problem till you ram boost down it i tend to get a very light skim just to be safe

25th February 2010, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16vax

well that depends if you can say ure head is in perfect condition you may not think there is a problem till you ram boost down it i tend to get a very light skim just to be safe

yh i think thats what im on about. its like called compition head or bottem end they do sumin to make it more strongr i duno lol

25th February 2010, 22:52

do it right --bore the block fit oversize pistons --and run it in on very low boost to start with --before giving it the death at high boost on the dyno

26th February 2010, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

do it right --bore the block fit oversize pistons --and run it in on very low boost to start with --before giving it the death at high boost on the dyno

yeh deffinatly

i bore it out to a 1.8 fitment dont i or somthing?

26th February 2010, 07:37

No, standard pistons are 78.5mm so you bore it out to a slighlty larger bore and fit pistons to suit.

The max people seem to go is 80mm, this is in na spec - i'd be very nervous running that bore in a turbo engine due to the heat!!

Maybe something like 78.7mm or 79mm pistons

28th February 2010, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

If this the last money you are spedning then yes to get 40-50 bhp then n/a is cheapest
however if going further then the boosted route is the way.
once you have bought the expensive bits ,then you can have alot more power for very little extra cost .
example -- if you can bolt things on yourself then your 4k will give you the right equipment to get 280bhp ---more than 100% increase .but you could start by running std internals and restrict the boost ,then when money allows ,change for forged internals and let it have its head.
.
the biggest difference between s/c + turbo on the instaalation is you need no oil suppy to charger unit ,no water cooling --so you can actually fit an s/c kit yorself in a weekend ,using al your std ex manifld etc .etc . you can even fit it and run std ecu ,with boost piep not fitted -until you take it to get it mapped.
we also have a map for the predator ,so yuo can P+N+P
the s/c is far more sympathetic to your transmission ,as you will not get a mass change inbhp at low rpm ,some will say that is the down side -

the s/c increase the power directly proportional to rpm increase --there is no "big" spool up point to cause traction + detonation problems .
you can even run std comp ratio ,providing you keep boost down to 6-7 psi,,which means off bost performance is same as it was before ,no drop in off bost performance

Just p,m'd you fella regarding what can you do for me for S'c
by the sounds of it

its just simply bolt on then remapp?

iv got newmans PH3 to fit and im going to get the predator ecu
could you enlighten me on going to that route?

28th February 2010, 15:11

I have one predator in stock at present .

28th February 2010, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I have one predator in stock at present .

is that the 3 plug predator if so could you add that on to the price in our email
cheers pal

28th February 2010, 22:10

nope single plug --no 3 plug preds have been made for general sale yet . amd price has not been fixed for them yet