expert advice only

  1. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #1
    My car was registered in nov 01, and so requires an approved cat.

    The only thing is, i've rang every place in Nottingham and they don't have the cat I need either because it's in the manifold or because it's not approved.

    My cat is underneath the car, so the one in the manifold is no good.
    The sales people are not allowed by law to sell me the unapproved one.

    So im a little stuck. In this case money can't buy me everything

    The big question is: Is my car still able to pass an mot emissions test with an unapproved cat fitted?

    And if so I've been offered an underfloor cat for the VTS, will it fit my VTR?

    Thanks.
  2. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS
    #2
    I had a problem last year where I could not, for the life of me, source a VTS cat with 2nd lambda hole. Ended up buying a second hand one as you'll cry at the prices Citroën want (money can buy you anything at a Citroën garage it seems).

    Question is, does your car require a cat with a downstream (2nd) lambda hole? If it does then you're going to be spending a while looking (although last time I looked eurocarparts had one). If not then you can pick up a replacement from just about any motorfactors.

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'approved'? Provided the cat doesn't leak and actually works it'll pass an MOT.

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  3. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #3
    cars manufactured after 1st march 2001 need an approved cat.

    The only difference to someone like me is that the approved cats cost about £100, the non approved cost £60.

    Would emission test threshold be the same for all cars that is the ones manufactured before march 01 and the ones manufactured after march 01?

    I have my whole exhaust syste removed off my car at the moment, I didnt need to remove any lambda sensor. the lamba sensor on my car goes into the downpipe just before the cat begins.

    Does this mean i'm not in the same category as you?

    cheers for the quick reply.
  4. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS
    #4
    No problem at all. If there is only one lambda on your car then it means you have much more availability and choice for your particular vehicle.

    As per the approved/unapproved question. The unapproved will only fail the mot if it isn't working properly at the time of the test, the tester will not look under the car for anything that says 'unapproved' and fail it on the spot. If it does indeed fail your warranty on that part should enable you to get a free replacement which should hopefully work. But there is no guarantee on the quality to be honest. I've heard, down the grapevine, that those sort of cats have a much shorter working life compared to the citroën version - but I've never used one myself. Sorry I can't be of any more assistance than that!

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  5. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #5
    My car has 2 lambda's. They both go into the manifold. one further up that the other obviously. But the lambdo has nothing to do with the cat in physical terms.

    Does that mean that I need the cat which you decribe as being more available?

    Thanks pal.
  6. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS
    #6
    That second (downstream) lambda is purely to do with the Catalyst, it sends a signal to the ECU which it then compares with the upstream sensor, if there's a difference it knows that the Cat is working correctly. If there isn't a difference it'll flag up the catalyst fault with the engine warning light. That's all the second lambda does, it doesn't affect the running of the engine in any way.

    So yes, I'm afraid you'll need a Catalyst with a downstream lambda hole on it which are much less available. Check eurocarparts out... as I say I'm sure I saw one available so you should be ok. I gave up trying to find one and opted for a second hand jobby. I don't know for sure but if you manage to source a second hand VTS it should be fine, it'll definitely work in terms of catalytic function. Just I'm not 100% on the fitment - but this is Citroen after all.
    Hope that helps!
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  7. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #7
    Im sorry if im annoying you. But i dont get it.

    If my current cat doesnt have a whole for the downstream lambda, surely I dont need a whole in the new one?
  8. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #8
    As said you have a PreCat Lambda and a PostCat Lambda to check the difference making sure the Cat is doing its job. Why would it have both sensors next to each other if you have got 2 going into the manifold, with no cat they will be reading the same figure.

    If you have 2001 VTR triple plug ECU engine then the 2 wires going to the manifold are definatly the lambdas for a manifold cat setup. The later VTRs didnt have an under car cat.

    If you still cant find the correct manifold then just buy an approved one with single hole, you drill a hole out for the second lambda then weld a nut on for the lambda to screw into.
  9. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS
    #9
    You're not annoying me at all dude.

    That downstream sensor must have been plugged in somewhere though?
  10. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #10
    i'll check... 2 mins
  11. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172
    #11
    B+M Catalysts in Mansfield is where we get all our cats from, they also supply most of the motor factors in the area as they manufacture them on site.
  12. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #12
  13. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #13



  14. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #14
    From them pictures can you tell me which cat i need?

    Thanks.
  15. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #15
    You need a manifold cat, thats an aftermarket one by the looks of it not standard. If it isnt aftermarket then its a Mk2 VTS manifold and someones drilled the hole out and welded a nut on for the second lambda. You dont even have a cat on your car at the moment.
  16. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Chester Posts: 2850 1275 mini
    #16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    You need a manifold cat, thats an aftermarket one by the looks of it not standard. If it isnt aftermarket then its a Mk2 VTS manifold and someones drilled the hole out and welded a nut on for the second lambda. You dont even have a cat on your car at the moment.
    this is definately an aftermarket manifold, just to clarify this is not a mk2 vts manifold as they are in two pieces (in standard form)
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  17. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #17
    That actually looks like a bodge job. If you have removed a Cat pipe from underneath the car that connects to the manifold to the bit on the 2nd pic, then its a pure Bodge Job.

    Your cars meant to have the Cat Manifold with a cat inbetween them 2 sensors. Having the cat after the sensors would put the fueling out or show a Cat fault as the sensors are both before the cat fooling it into thinking the cats died.
  18. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Chester Posts: 2850 1275 mini
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by db_sax View Post
    That actually looks like a bodge job. If you have removed a Cat pipe from underneath the car that connects to the manifold to the bit on the 2nd pic, then its a pure Bodge Job.

    Your cars meant to have the Cat Manifold with a cat inbetween them 2 sensors. Having the cat after the sensors would put the fueling out or show a Cat fault as the sensors are both before the cat fooling it into thinking the cats died.
    100% agree
  19. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 129
    #19
    So Whats the easiest way of getting the car to pass emissions test. what do i need to change etc.

    My cat isn't on the car, I took the whole exhaust system off.

    I didn't do that btw, the owners before me did that.
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Chester Posts: 2850 1275 mini
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ats101 View Post
    So Whats the easiest way of getting the car to pass emissions test. what do i need to change etc.

    My cat isn't on the car, I took the whole exhaust system off.

    I didn't do that btw, the owners before me did that.
    personally i would get a second hand manifold with cat (this will replace what you have on the car atm) then fit the rest of the exhaust you have, or if you already have an under car cat then you will need a centre section too
  21. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ats101 View Post
    So Whats the easiest way of getting the car to pass emissions test. what do i need to change etc.

    My cat isn't on the car, I took the whole exhaust system off.
    You have 2 choices.

    Either get a replacment manifold with the cat built in. Or if you have an undercar cat then do what i said about drilling the hole after the cat, welding a nut on for the second lambda to bolt into. However, youd then have to extend the 2nd lambda wire so it reaches and also route it so it isnt touching the hot exhaust then bolt or wled off that second lambda hole in your current manifold.

    Basically easiest option is to buy a manifold cat for a 2001 onwards model. To be safe get a 2003 manifold for a VTR as they are the same.