Turbo/Supercharge

21st April 2010, 18:02

Hi guys been thinking about turboing or supercharging my vtr.. now whats the easiest & the best turboing it or supercharging it? Could anyone tell me where i can get all the bits from to please thanks.

21st April 2010, 18:03

Superchargers improve torque turbo's improve BHP. Do both if you can afford it!

21st April 2010, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by L_E_W_I_S

Superchargers improve torque turbo's improve BHP. Do both if you can afford it!

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!

turbo's will almost everytime give more torque than a cenrtifugal s/c. where as the power delivery of a s/c can make things a bit smoother on all other components.

unless you have over 3k with mechanical knowledge or 5k without i wouldnt even bother.

21st April 2010, 18:20

hmm im not sure witch one, if i turbo it i just want a basic turbo kit etc.. no forged pistons etc. & i dont have over 3k! surley it's not that much?! ive looked on cituning & a basic turbo kit is 1495

21st April 2010, 18:25

if you want results then it will cost you over 3k!

you can get a nice bit of power extra for less but say goodbye to reliability as you will be using second hand/bodge bits.

21st April 2010, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jase125

hmm im not sure witch one, if i turbo it i just want a basic turbo kit etc.. no forged pistons etc. & i dont have over 3k! surley it's not that much?! ive looked on cituning & a basic turbo kit is 1495

Then fitting, intercooler, boost pipes, standalone, mapping, etc.

Use search button

21st April 2010, 18:26

They dont supply everything you need. After getting the kit fitted you will need standalone management and bigger injectors or mf2 and 5th injector. Not sure on price of mf2 etc but standalone and injectors will cost you atleast £1000 with fitting. Been there done it mate. Made all the mistakes so take it from me lol

21st April 2010, 18:34

i think ill give that a miss then..

22nd April 2010, 16:47

"Superchargers improve torque turbo's improve BHP. Do both if you can afford it!"

s/c only give a bit of torque and not bhp?
never a need to do both --the car below is an animal to drive quickly

have a look here to see what an s/c can do

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...FF1176x642.png

22nd April 2010, 16:56

as appose to turbos/chargers how much for bodies and what kind of gains would you get out of them and does it destroy your mpg?

22nd April 2010, 17:08

not much gain from boddies, unless new pistons bigger cams, then could see around 170/80 hp, and around similar price t a basic turbo conversion.

put in perspective i have spent ove 3000 so far and thats only on the engine,(no charger or turbo yet).

23rd April 2010, 10:26

cams +ex manifold +t/bodies + ecu =170+bhp
parts cost =£2100inc va --could be more depending on choice of ecu-that is using a predator P+N+P for single plug--

23rd April 2010, 12:13

turbo uses waste products from the car, supercharger uses the cam belt to do the same thing as the turbo charger and uses an extra 10bhp just to get it started so in reality whatever bhp extra a supercharger would give you would have to -10bhp. The only pro with a supercharger is that it doesnt have the lag like turbo does and the pros with turbo is that it doesnt draw from the belt... As burger king says... YOU DECIDE!!

23rd April 2010, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshy23

turbo uses waste products from the car, supercharger uses the cam belt to do the same thing as the turbo charger and uses an extra 10bhp just to get it started so in reality whatever bhp extra a supercharger would give you would have to -10bhp. The only pro with a supercharger is that it doesnt have the lag like turbo does and the pros with turbo is that it doesnt draw from the belt... As burger king says... YOU DECIDE!!

sorry you are not correct turbo take power to drive ,there is no such thing as perpetual motion or free power .if you cause a restriction big enough to drive a turbine it must be causing a restriction in the exhaust and thus sapping power .
on a s/c car you have the advantage of having a tuned length ex system which will pick up power for free,hence then you can make good power with not as much boost,but there is a limit to boost level
if this was not the case you could run a 1" exhaust on a 300bhp car ,if restrciting ex gas flow did not affect power output .
the big difference between turbo,s and the eaton type unit (positive displacement type charger) is the eaton unit is a screw type compressor and it still takes power to drive it even on the cruise ,even if you are not using the boost it is making ,the rotrex centrifical unit areodynamicaly stalls when throttle is shut ,or in cruise condition ,this unloads the turbine as it cannot move air ,IE it is stalled ,so it takes very little power to turn it .
1-1.2bar is pratical max you can attain with a rotex type unit ,but as you can get 300bhp+ at that level then that is more than enough for any road application .
I will certainly agree you can have more boost with turbo ,but to what point on a fwd car,you cannot lay 300+ bhp down anyway without wheelspin at any road legal speed,my own car lights the tryes up at 90mph if I flatten the throttle in 4th gear and thats s/c and running just over 1 bar of boost. I hasten to add engine is not std

23rd April 2010, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

sorry you are not correct turbo take power to drive ,there is no such thing as perpetual motion or free power .if you cause a restriction big enough to drive a turbine it must be causing a restriction in the exhaust and thus sapping power .
on a s/c car you have the advantage of having a tuned length ex system which will pick up power for free,hence then you can make good power with not as much boost,but there is a limit to boost level
if this was not the case you could run a 1" exhaust on a 300bhp car ,if restrciting ex gas flow did not affect power output .
the big difference between turbo,s and the eaton type unit (positive displacement type charger) is the eaton unit is a screw type compressor and it still takes power to drive it even on the cruise ,even if you are not using the boost it is making ,the rotrex centrifical unit areodynamicaly stalls when throttle is shut ,or in cruise condition ,this unloads the turbine as it cannot move air ,IE it is stalled ,so it takes very little power to turn it .
1-1.2bar is pratical max you can attain with a rotex type unit ,but as you can get 300bhp+ at that level then that is more than enough for any road application .
I will certainly agree you can have more boost with turbo ,but to what point on a fwd car,you cannot lay 300+ bhp down anyway without wheelspin at any road legal speed,my own car lights the tryes up at 90mph if I flatten the throttle in 4th gear and thats s/c and running just over 1 bar of boost. I hasten to add engine is not std

truely savage

23rd April 2010, 15:07

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=293691

all th info you need

23rd April 2010, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

sorry you are not correct turbo take power to drive ,there is no such thing as perpetual motion or free power .if you cause a restriction big enough to drive a turbine it must be causing a restriction in the exhaust and thus sapping power .
on a s/c car you have the advantage of having a tuned length ex system which will pick up power for free,hence then you can make good power with not as much boost,but there is a limit to boost level
if this was not the case you could run a 1" exhaust on a 300bhp car ,if restrciting ex gas flow did not affect power output .
the big difference between turbo,s and the eaton type unit (positive displacement type charger) is the eaton unit is a screw type compressor and it still takes power to drive it even on the cruise ,even if you are not using the boost it is making ,the rotrex centrifical unit areodynamicaly stalls when throttle is shut ,or in cruise condition ,this unloads the turbine as it cannot move air ,IE it is stalled ,so it takes very little power to turn it .
1-1.2bar is pratical max you can attain with a rotex type unit ,but as you can get 300bhp+ at that level then that is more than enough for any road application .
I will certainly agree you can have more boost with turbo ,but to what point on a fwd car,you cannot lay 300+ bhp down anyway without wheelspin at any road legal speed,my own car lights the tryes up at 90mph if I flatten the throttle in 4th gear and thats s/c and running just over 1 bar of boost. I hasten to add engine is not std

hmm im only re-quote what i was told by a mech who specialises in these things, he said it uses exhaust gases to spin a turbine which in turn spins another turbine in-hailing air.. Thats what i was meaning to say but i didnt explain much into it. He then said the supercharger is primarily the same but uses a belt to drive it instead of the cars waste products. ie exhaust fumes

23rd April 2010, 16:34

no harm to you mate -- but this is the problem with forums myths get touted about as fact and as I turboed my first car in 1976,a hillman imp ,then a mk2 rs2000 escort and in 1979 i turboed a subaru GLF+4wd pick-up --I reckon i must have been the first to do a subaru ,def in uk ,if not the world --was the old pushrod engine with suck through weber 45 dcoe ,still have the kit , i do know a bit about both turbo,s and s/c installations.

23rd April 2010, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

no harm to you mate -- but this is the problem with forums myths get touted about as fact and as I turboed my first car in 1976,a hillman imp ,then a mk2 rs2000 escort and in 1979 i turboed a subaru GLF+4wd pick-up --I reckon i must have been the first to do a subaru ,def in uk ,if not the world --was the old pushrod engine with suck through weber 45 dcoe ,still have the kit , i do know a bit about both turbo,s and s/c installations.

thats cool! fucking fair play, im only tryna be helpfull to the bloke wanting to know on this thread so i told him what iw as told. You oviously have had lots of xp lol So im not gonna arguue! nothing worse than a noob getting things wrong and arguing his wrong point

23rd April 2010, 19:57

so the supercharger is the best then guys?with doing little to the engine to get this running properly or do you need more than what a supercharger kit is giving you?

23rd April 2010, 20:06

Supercharger gives smoother power no lag.
Turbo gives usually more power but with lag.

Pro's and Con's for both but neither is "best" both cost a good amount to build to a decent standard!

23rd April 2010, 20:52

superchargers dont have lag amen.

24th April 2010, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyes

Supercharger gives smoother power no lag.
Turbo gives usually more power but with lag.

Pro's and Con's for both but neither is "best" both cost a good amount to build to a decent standard!

sorry another totally inaccurate generalisation .
you cannot say a turbo will give more or less power --the power will depend on boost level,engine spec ,intercooler ,et ,etc ,
no lag is totally correct
can you get more boost at lower rpm level with a turbo --if turbo is correct size --yes --but all the turbo monsters using gt28r do not fully spool up till near 4k and comp ratio is usally --dependant on engine spec -required to be lower than s/c -
can you get more total power with a turbo --technically --yes --but if you are going for crazy boost levels then the turbo must be big -so even more lag +lower comp required -
there are always compromises
look at graph I have posted earlier in this thread --you cannot use any more power than that in an orderly manner with front wheel drive ,even with an lsd.

you building a car for drag racing and want 400bhp --go turbo --you want to drive on the road --no-- go less power max 300 and go s/c --thats a car you can drive even in the wet ,with care --turbo men don,t come out on wet days

the one thing you can do with the s/c you cannot do with the turbo is decide the level of boost you require --ie start with low 7psi conversion --then when more engine work is done allow it to give more boost --
turbo yes you can ,with more complicated controls keep boost down on it, but you cannot alter its spool up level if it is a large turbo ,
so turbo to give 300bhp ,will always have lag and spool rpm will alway be same and the power will rise very dramatically at the spool -up point--s/c you can alter drive ratio and move it up or down the rpm range and always power increase will be a smooth affair--this is hwat makes it easy to drive --you can predict precisely when you are going to get wheelspin ,you can shut the throttle hald way round a corner and reapply it and boostis instant --smae way it is with a n/a car --
the only way you can do that with a turbo car is to keep rpm up so it never drops below the spool -up point .
a saxo/106 with a t2 is a nice car to drive --but it runs out of boost at around 200@wheels

any boosting device can be rated very simply by the MASS of air it can pass --that will give you the theroretical limit bhp limit of that unit when air + fuel is mixed at correct ratio with air supplied at given temp --so poor intercooling wil then lower actual bhp .
I am not anti-tirbo as it may seem -just not in light front wheel drive cars at high bhp levels

24th April 2010, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

turbo men don,t come out on wet days

God damn the bloody rain

24th April 2010, 11:47

i think that comment is wrong john.................. turbo men do come out on rainy days............ they just dont get very far or end up hurting themselves ahahhhaa

24th April 2010, 11:55

They dont touch the amazing realm of boost in fear of heading head first into the dyke haha

24th April 2010, 11:57

dreading what my vtr will be like next winter tbh, the quaiffe gods will have to help me out a little........and i mean it will only be a little lmao

24th April 2010, 18:25

Really men have N/A powered cars!!

non of this boost cheating! lol

andy