Important! : Ignition live when keys out ??? :/

  1. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 Exeter - Devon Posts: 3179 Nitrous'd Saxo VTS '52 Plate (S33 VTS)
    #1
    A real brain teaser

    Ive had a problem for a while now and just wanted to ask if anyone has had a simular one?

    Basically after driving the car if I pull up take the keys out etc then my voltmeter reads 8.9volts and other led illuminated gauges light up too... doesnt happen all the time but mostly.

    I thought it was my 5 farad powercap but it wasnt that.
    Then thought it might be my hid's as if I switch lights on with keys out all goes off but removed those and its still there.
    Tried the 2 relays in the bottom of the fuse box as they click when ignition is turned off, replaced them with spares from a scrappy... no luck
    Ive cleaned up all the earths in the engine bay and used Wurth spray on them and checked the 2 in the footwells and the 1 up the back of the dash.

    I was wondering ...

    Anyone had the same problem and what did it turn out to be?

    Anyone know if it might be the relay under the ecu tray that ive just read about?? it supposedly controlls the fuel pump and possably other ignition accessories.

    If it were the ignition barrel how they hell do I get a new one? citroen or electrician rebuild mine?

    I know a bit about electronics etc but this one is starting to get on my nerves
  2. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS
    #2
    Buy a new barrel off ebay with keys and locks. It sounds as if one of your contacts has come loose and is getting stuck in the barell. This happened to mine... if you leave it things wil start to burn out as it causes a short between the switched and live terminals, my fan wiring completely melting was what alerted me to it
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  3. Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye
    #3
    i had a problem once, where when i removed the keys the car contiuned to run without the keys in the ignition...

    there was a plug i accidently plugged in behind the dash, that didnt needed to be plugged in.
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  4. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS
    #4
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by frankie View Post
    i had a problem once, where when i removed the keys the car contiuned to run without the keys in the ignition...

    there was a plug i accidently plugged in behind the dash, that didnt needed to be plugged in.
    There is a 4pin plug by the fuse box which if you get the wires mixed up (when wiring in a 16v) causes the engine to run on with no keys and makes the brake lights stay on permanently lol. I'm am 99% positive he has a short in the barrel though
  5. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 Exeter - Devon Posts: 3179 Nitrous'd Saxo VTS '52 Plate (S33 VTS)
    #5
    okay so new barrel but can I just buy a partand fit it myself of do I have to have a whole new barrel and new keys?

    I really dont want new key for the barrel as Il have a different key for the doors and the petrol filler

    Dont get me wrong I love my vts but its a real french piece of shite sometimes

    Cheers for comments so far, if anyone else has any ideas let me know!

    Il see if I can figure out how the barrel is assembled!
  6. Established Member Joined: Apr 2009 Redcar Posts: 1971 2000 Posi Blue vtr
    #6
    Can you disconnect the barrel wiring to simulate "key out" operation and check again next time it happens? Might save yo ubuying new barrel and key etc.
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  7. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS
    #7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lippy View Post
    okay so new barrel but can I just buy a partand fit it myself of do I have to have a whole new barrel and new keys?

    I really dont want new key for the barrel as Il have a different key for the doors and the petrol filler

    Dont get me wrong I love my vts but its a real french piece of shite sometimes

    Cheers for comments so far, if anyone else has any ideas let me know!

    Il see if I can figure out how the barrel is assembled!
    You can dismantle the barrel but the contacts are only held in by a small lip of plastic. It may be possible to slot it back in but you may have lost the tiny little spring from behind it. If you buy a new barrel you should be able to get all the locks with it but you're immobiliser chip will be the issue then. Citroen will charge you 1 million pounds probably to have a new barrel and key set so its up to you. You can test the contacts though to make sure. If you unplug the 3 sets of wires and buzz test them with a multimeter. It shouldn't buzz until the barrel is turned to correct stage but since the fault is intermittent then this may not prove anything
  8. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Carlisle,Cumbria Posts: 189 vts yo
    #8
    This happened to my old vtr exactly same fault as you described then key got wedge in barrel one day got another barrel from scrapyard and spent 2days swapping contacts over etc so didnt have to have different keys worked a treat but was ball ache would never do it again.Citreon charge £300 for barrel and coding as i priced it before decided do it myself
  9. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 Exeter - Devon Posts: 3179 Nitrous'd Saxo VTS '52 Plate (S33 VTS)
    #9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ax_beefy View Post
    You can dismantle the barrel but the contacts are only held in by a small lip of plastic. It may be possible to slot it back in but you may have lost the tiny little spring from behind it. If you buy a new barrel you should be able to get all the locks with it but you're immobiliser chip will be the issue then. Citroen will charge you 1 million pounds probably to have a new barrel and key set so its up to you. You can test the contacts though to make sure. If you unplug the 3 sets of wires and buzz test them with a multimeter. It shouldn't buzz until the barrel is turned to correct stage but since the fault is intermittent then this may not prove anything
    Sounds like a pain in the arse but im normally pretty good with pulling stuff apart and fixing it so might be an option...

    Problem with 'buzzing' them is that its intermittent like you said and also sometimes it clears itself after 2 mins of idle... only really a pain in the arse when it doesnt clear and flattens the battery

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Graeme-P View Post
    This happened to my old vtr exactly same fault as you described then key got wedge in barrel one day got another barrel from scrapyard and spent 2days swapping contacts over etc so didnt have to have different keys worked a treat but was ball ache would never do it again.Citreon charge £300 for barrel and coding as i priced it before decided do it myself
    I called citroen this afternoon and they quoted £115 + vat for a new barrel thats specifically made to order for my car, the transponder is inside my key and the receiver is on a plug and swappable from barrel to barrel so I dont think that part will be a problem!?!?
  10. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 Exeter - Devon Posts: 3179 Nitrous'd Saxo VTS '52 Plate (S33 VTS)
    #10
    Ive got a friend looking at the car friday with me who still works with car electronics so he might be able to check everything out for me

    For the moment ive used diodes to stop the ignition feed (4.5v) going to my snooper, fuel pressure gauge, tomtom charger and relay that controll all the dash leds and the 4 x 15" neon lights.

    Voltmeter still shows the drain though so I can make sure I switch something on with keys out that will stop the slow drain

    should flatten the battery slower if I forget to check!

    Il update this thread friday when I find out what the problem is presuming I do as there must be a few people with this sort of problem and Citroen even stated that the barrels are a bit crap :/
  11. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lippy View Post

    I called citroen this afternoon and they quoted £115 + vat for a new barrel thats specifically made to order for my car, the transponder is inside my key and the receiver is on a plug and swappable from barrel to barrel so I dont think that part will be a problem!?!?
    Thats alot better than I'd have expected. The pickup ring for the immobiliser just slides off so no big deal there.

    I had to keep taking the battery off with mine when it was parked but there was the added issue of not having any brake lights or indicators (I looked like a prick doing hand signals that no one understands! lol) due to the short lol
  12. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 Exeter - Devon Posts: 3179 Nitrous'd Saxo VTS '52 Plate (S33 VTS)
    #12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ax_beefy View Post
    Thats alot better than I'd have expected. The pickup ring for the immobiliser just slides off so no big deal there.

    I had to keep taking the battery off with mine when it was parked but there was the added issue of not having any brake lights or indicators (I looked like a prick doing hand signals that no one understands! lol) due to the short lol
    Ah now I dont have a problem with indicators and I dont think my brake lights have a problem... :/
    (although ive been getting alot of hand signals from other people recently) Il just put that down to my driving skills or lack of

    Im glad you confirmed that the pickup ring can just be slid off! The price isnt too bad that Citrown quoted but id be interested to see if I can fix it myself first! although if I pull it all apart and cant im pretty fucked really! lol
  13. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lippy View Post
    Ah now I dont have a problem with indicators and I dont think my brake lights have a problem... :/
    (although ive been getting alot of hand signals from other people recently) Il just put that down to my driving skills or lack of

    Im glad you confirmed that the pickup ring can just be slid off! The price isnt too bad that Citrown quoted but id be interested to see if I can fix it myself first! although if I pull it all apart and cant im pretty fucked really! lol
    The contacts are easy to get at just remove the outer casing (small torx screw) but DO NOT try and remove the spring mechanism inside the barrel itself unless you are a genius as I tried to swap the keys over on mine but when I practised taking it apart and putting it back together I could not get it right lol
  14. Established Member Joined: Apr 2006 torquay (England) Posts: 1993 supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r
    #14
    i have a barrel and key already out m8, try it, if it works u need new barrel, if not problem else where
  15. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 Exeter - Devon Posts: 3179 Nitrous'd Saxo VTS '52 Plate (S33 VTS)
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ax_beefy View Post
    The contacts are easy to get at just remove the outer casing (small torx screw) but DO NOT try and remove the spring mechanism inside the barrel itself unless you are a genius as I tried to swap the keys over on mine but when I practised taking it apart and putting it back together I could not get it right lol
    Im definately no genius but im good with this sort of stuff normally, I seem to have had an offer that might resolve my problem now (see below). Time will tell though

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adzvtr View Post
    i have a barrel and key already out m8, try it, if it works u need new barrel, if not problem else where
    I should have asked you first knowing you have bits of saxo's all over the place lol.

    Cool it pick it up friday, presuming you know where it is
    Any hopefully we can sort that annoying knocking noise too