Help!! Nurburgring trip friday car running like krap!!!!

19th May 2010, 20:10

In desperate need of some help i have spent an absolute FORTUNE on a gti engine getting it fitted etc andf its running like krap it sounds very very tappety and idles like a bitch!

I have had the idle control valve changed had the car smoke tested etc etc but its still running like shit!

In first gear you put your foot down and theres massive lag before the car even goes anywhere and coming up to junctions the car usually cuts out!!!

Im desperate i need someone to look at it or advise me or i will just scrap the car the way i feel right now

I have spent nearly £700 trying to get this bloody supposedly rebuilt engine from hiflowheads sorted and to no avail!

19th May 2010, 20:18

what help do you need ?

19th May 2010, 20:22

Anything anyone that knows anything about cars. I have a feeling the only thing left it could be is the throttle body as it is ported and polished and have a feeling this could be messing things up.

I also have unmapped reprofiled cams so im expecting it to be a bit weird the idle but not as bad as this!

19th May 2010, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Anything anyone that knows anything about cars. I have a feeling the only thing left it could be is the throttle body as it is ported and polished and have a feeling this could be messing things up.

I also have unmapped reprofiled cams so im expecting it to be a bit weird the idle but not as bad as this!

I think you have just hit the nail on the head, my cousin once ported & polished his. the butterfly never sat right again . the idle was terrible & the fuel mix was a disaster.

fit a std one & try that

19th May 2010, 20:27

So i just need a vts throttle body?

19th May 2010, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

So i just need a vts throttle body?

or get a fully track prepped vts , like mine

vts throttle body should be ok, TBH if the car is still shit tomorrow I w-ould not take it.

If it sounds like a bag of shit at the ring , they won't let you on.

P.S bring me a pisten klaus steak back

19th May 2010, 20:34

So vts or gti standard throttle body will be fine your reckon?

19th May 2010, 20:35

"Ported & polished" throttle body lol.

19th May 2010, 20:36

i had the same problem with the lag , and stalling at junctions, may sound stupid but have you tryed changing the coilpack ... thats what mine was

19th May 2010, 20:38

Its a low mileage c2 vts coilpack...

19th May 2010, 20:39

Just take it to your nearest rolling road tomoz & get them to diagnose the fault instead of throwing more cash at it

19th May 2010, 20:40

Its been to ATSpeed and they said the next port of call would be the TB. However they told me the car was fine when i picked it up...

19th May 2010, 20:53

go to a different place .........

or fit a tb & see how it goes but you have no time

19th May 2010, 20:54

Thats the problem this was supposed to be a dream trip damn im a good driver i just need a bloody good car now!
It would have been so better to get a cage uprated suspension and big brakes for what this has cost me!

19th May 2010, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Thats the problem this was supposed to be a dream trip damn im a good driver i just need a bloody good car now!
It would have been so better to get a cage uprated suspension and big brakes for what this has cost me!

careful careful ............

you may think you are a good driver ......... the ring may prove you wrong.

I have done quite a few laps on a few trips now & it has nearly had me off a couple of times.

my videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chW4bQ5QV2k

19th May 2010, 21:11

feel sorry for you dude, i payed £300 for my engine fitted it in 2 days with a brand new vts rad and fan and it works spot on

19th May 2010, 21:15

So so disappointed mainly with hiflow if im honest. Worksmanship was shocking i will put up a full list of what the screwed up on soon.

19th May 2010, 21:42

i use hi flow heads, and to be fair all the work i got from them seem to be top work, maybe a abit expensive.

if you ring Andy there and talk to him he will be willing to help you, he knock money off for me for a delayed delivery.

but i spoken to Andy alot always helpful, and willing to talk to me about a few problems.

19th May 2010, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathon5

careful careful ............

you may think you are a good driver ......... the ring may prove you wrong.

I have done quite a few laps on a few trips now & it has nearly had me off a couple of times.

my videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chW4bQ5QV2k

Think i saw this a few months ago its great! Shame i won't be experiencing such a great time unless i drive my mates 206 gti but to be fair the main reason i think im a good driver is the fact i know my car so well. I doubt anyone could drive it as well as me lol

19th May 2010, 21:45

also looking though your thread, you have a lighten flywheel that will upset the idle to start with, and low down running!!

also check your lamdba sensor!

19th May 2010, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

i use hi flow heads, and to be fair all the work i got from them seem to be top work, maybe a abit expensive.

if you ring Andy there and talk to him he will be willing to help you, he knock money off for me for a delayed delivery.

but i spoken to Andy alot always helpful, and willing to talk to me about a few problems.

I just expected more...the reason i haven't harassed him with all the dramas is because im waiting for him to send martin (from tweeqd) an unlocked ecu (he sent me a locked one and martin lent me his one) so don't want to risk martin not getting his ecu. Think as im clueless with mechanics they rip me off HARD!

19th May 2010, 21:49

it never cheap for any engine work!!

they are not out to rip people off, and also they wouldnt do that dude, they cant do that!!!

he you speak to him in a good manner dont go shouting off then he will help you if you had problems,

unless you are one of these c**ts that just go in shouting first!!!

but he wouldnt just say right i ent giving your mate that ecu because you rang me with problems.

19th May 2010, 21:51

also i am going to say 99% of the problems you are saying is due to the lighten flywheel, also head work and cams these on standard map will not work too well and will make the car run not quite right to start with, i wouldnt say it the engine itself, but the fact the fueling is abit out and also lighten a flywheel changes the idle alot and also can upset the lower down revs.

19th May 2010, 21:53

This is true but the thing just cuts out when i down gears it jumps right up and then falls and cuts out its just not right i just can't drive around like this..plus the flywheel was lightened and balanced

19th May 2010, 21:59

yer well i would expect to be lighten and balance!

also that not the engine doing that right there!!

that will be a sensor or somthing not the engine itself!!

i think your jump to quick to say it hiflow fault with the engine, when this sound more to be a sensor making it cut out!!

19th May 2010, 22:05

what's the spec of the engine at the moment? What profile are these 'reprofiled' cams ?!

Standard Ecu? Standard timing ?

Is it a brand new engine ?

19th May 2010, 22:10

106 GTi engine, freshly rebuilt (Zero Mile) new bearing, sump gasket set, oil pump timing belt kit, water pump, steel head gasket. Recon head, lightened & balance flywheel + clutch kit, 106 GTi ECU, 106 GTi Loom, Inletmanifold & exhaust manifold & induction kit.

Reprofiled cams equiv to piper 270, stage 3 head, decat stainless exhaust, c2 vts TB ported

19th May 2010, 22:11

1) Exhaust manifold bolts were loose and 3 of them wern't fitted (you may have explained this one to me)
2) Cam cover bolts were loose
3) Heat wrap fitted to top half of manifold only and not tight
4) Plastic top hose connector broken
5) Cyl head oil drain pipe replaced with silicone pipe
6) Oil level sensor not standard item and item fitted is broken with no way of attaching the plug
7) Black silicone sealant used on exhaust manifold
8) Inertia switch taken out of loom so vehicle does no longer use one
9) Ecu was supplied locked
10) No dipstick

The engine is also ridiculously tappety sounds like a taxi! The engine also is not idleing well at all at roundabouts junctions etc the engine has stalled with no warning leaving me minimal brakes and steering

I have paid £278 today to have the car sorted for my holiday had a smoke test done and the inlet manifold needed sealiing upper to lower half and plugged up. Open charcoal filter was taken off and replaced with new one and idle control? valve replaced. Reset ecu and road test

Am i wrong to expect more from a company i paid close to £3000 for an engine from?

19th May 2010, 22:13

like i said when you picked it up mate, my money is on that TB

ive never seen one do good and your one hasnt been done well

19th May 2010, 22:13

i thought the c2 throttle body was fbw? Pop a standard one on and see how it is. Even on standard map i wouldnt have thought itdd runn that badly...

19th May 2010, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

like i said when you picked it up mate, my money is on that TB

ive never seen one do good and your one hasnt been done well

Im disgusted mate i know magic doesn't happen overnight and i appreciate your efforts especially but you shouldn't have needed to put that effort in! It should have been a simple job! lol
Tbh why sell some one something that will F*CK their car up. You would have thought he would have at least tested the damn engine before it wasd sold to me!

19th May 2010, 22:18

the TB looks like steve wonder did it with a road drill

your lucky i have a temp16v gay engine in mine that i could nick all the bits off lol

19th May 2010, 22:19

Poo sorry yeah it isn't a c2 vts one thats the coilpack!
And yeah amen to that. Perhaps i should do stevie wonder with a drill on hiflow lol

19th May 2010, 22:24

3000 grand for that work and remember there labour price on that too is not too bad.

i payed near that much just for parts for my bottom end!

but anyway, some of that stuff was not good, but could of been damaged on delivery back and if you rang him i sure he would sort that out for you, and say sorry for that as he was very good with me over dleivery times, even went in of the day the company was not open for business to sort a problem out, basiclly opened just for me.

also like i said a lighten and balance flywheel will though the idle and will make it cut out, the cams will also not work well un mapped and sometimes cut out going down to ilde.

i dont think it the engine itself doing this, could be worng but reading what you are saying i dont think it will be the engine. sound more like something electroniclly playing up i.e. a sensor.

andy

19th May 2010, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Im disgusted mate i know magic doesn't happen overnight and i appreciate your efforts especially but you shouldn't have needed to put that effort in! It should have been a simple job! lol
Tbh why sell some one something that will F*CK their car up. You would have thought he would have at least tested the damn engine before it wasd sold to me!

mate i dont think it the engine itself, also did you run the engine in? as it was zero miles? as if you didnt run it in then that will not help.

unless he stated he ran the engine in, if not then you have to run a new engine in.

19th May 2010, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Poo sorry yeah it isn't a c2 vts one thats the coilpack!
And yeah amen to that. Perhaps i should do stevie wonder with a drill on hiflow lol

mate like i said, i dnt think hiflow work itself making these problem your mods and using a standard map will not be helping.

it sound more sensor issue

19th May 2010, 22:31

Nah its only 250 miles ran in so far (by me) but im sure that won't solve these issues and besides i think atspeed would have picked up on it if it was a sensor...

19th May 2010, 22:33

but they also said the engine was fine? i think that what i readed you said?

19th May 2010, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Its been to ATSpeed and they said the next port of call would be the TB. However they told me the car was fine when i picked it up...

so they said the car was fine? including the engine?

if they thought it was the engine they would of pick up on that too.

maybe it the TB?

19th May 2010, 22:35

also how ahve you been driving it to bed it all in?

19th May 2010, 22:36

They may have thought it was fine in that when they test drove it it probably didn't cut out on them and seemed fine at idle but as soon as i drove it around it was dreadful!
I think TB would be the next port of call...

19th May 2010, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

3000 grand for that work and remember there labour price on that too is not too bad.

i payed near that much just for parts for my bottom end!

but anyway, some of that stuff was not good, but could of been damaged on delivery back and if you rang him i sure he would sort that out for you, and say sorry for that as he was very good with me over dleivery times, even went in of the day the company was not open for business to sort a problem out, basiclly opened just for me.

also like i said a lighten and balance flywheel will though the idle and will make it cut out, the cams will also not work well un mapped and sometimes cut out going down to ilde.

i dont think it the engine itself doing this, could be worng but reading what you are saying i dont think it will be the engine. sound more like something electroniclly playing up i.e. a sensor.

andy

Andy what are you smoking ?! £3k ??!?!

270's should be fine on a standard Ecu, I ran my 285's on standard Ecu to run them in and it seemed to idle fine - I wouldn't have called it erratic and you'd have been hard pushed to tell that 'uprated' cams were in there.

Lightened flywheel shouldn't affect it that bad - it will affect idle a tad but I presume it's probably a standard flywheel with like 1kg taken off? Sure the op can confirm the type of flywheel he's got.

If I was the op I'd take the car straight back to them.

If you don't want to take it back to them (god knows why you wouldn't - you've just given them £3k for something that you are having problems with - a bit of aftersales service is the least they can do) then if I was you I'd fit an oem throttle body that's not been mucked about with. Then get it compression tested, both dry and wet. Start to try and rule out sensors.

Uplug your map sensor, if the engine characteristics don't change then the MAP sensor id buggered.

If your dash coolant temp seems to be reading right/normal. Then measure the resistance of this sensor on the engine (blue one in the thermostat housing) and then compare this to the temperature of the green on.

Take the plugs out (will need to do it for the compression test) and look at the colour of them.

Any blows on the inlet side of things? Any blows in the exhaust?

19th May 2010, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

also how ahve you been driving it to bed it all in?

Driving very slowly not over 4000rpm

19th May 2010, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Andy what are you smoking ?! £3k ??!?!

270's should be fine on a standard Ecu, I ran my 285's on standard Ecu to run them in and it seemed to idle fine - I wouldn't have called it erratic and you'd have been hard pushed to tell that 'uprated' cams were in there.

Lightened flywheel shouldn't affect it that bad - it will affect idle a tad but I presume it's probably a standard flywheel with like 1kg taken off? Sure the op can confirm the type of flywheel he's got.

If I was the op I'd take the car straight back to them.

If you don't want to take it back to them (god knows why you wouldn't - you've just given them £3k for something that you are having problems with - a bit of aftersales service is the least they can do) then if I was you I'd fit an oem throttle body that's not been mucked about with. Then get it compression tested, both dry and wet. Start to try and rule out sensors.

Uplug your map sensor, if the engine characteristics don't change then the MAP sensor id buggered.

If your dash coolant temp seems to be reading right/normal. Then measure the resistance of this sensor on the engine (blue one in the thermostat housing) and then compare this to the temperature of the green on.

Take the plugs out (will need to do it for the compression test) and look at the colour of them.

Any blows on the inlet side of things? Any blows in the exhaust?

I can't take the car to Scotland lol and my dash temp doesn't work as i've gone from 3 plug ecu to 1 plug and was told only way i can have one is with an aftermarket one..and im sure i have a brand new map sensor on it

19th May 2010, 22:41

But the only people that can have a chance at fixing it without you paying more money out is Hiflowheads ............ however far away they are.

What did ATSpeed say about it ?

So you don't have a coolant gauge on the dash?!

19th May 2010, 22:41

well that wrong for a start to bed it all in you need to go up and down the rev range highly not just stick below a rpm!

you need to work the engine, i rev my engine to about 6,5k after about 100 miles!

you need to start working the engine more dude!

just vary the throttle and nicly up and down the rev range,

19th May 2010, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Andy what are you smoking ?! £3k ??!?!

270's should be fine on a standard Ecu, I ran my 285's on standard Ecu to run them in and it seemed to idle fine - I wouldn't have called it erratic and you'd have been hard pushed to tell that 'uprated' cams were in there.

Lightened flywheel shouldn't affect it that bad - it will affect idle a tad but I presume it's probably a standard flywheel with like 1kg taken off? Sure the op can confirm the type of flywheel he's got.

If I was the op I'd take the car straight back to them.

If you don't want to take it back to them (god knows why you wouldn't - you've just given them £3k for something that you are having problems with - a bit of aftersales service is the least they can do) then if I was you I'd fit an oem throttle body that's not been mucked about with. Then get it compression tested, both dry and wet. Start to try and rule out sensors.

Uplug your map sensor, if the engine characteristics don't change then the MAP sensor id buggered.

If your dash coolant temp seems to be reading right/normal. Then measure the resistance of this sensor on the engine (blue one in the thermostat housing) and then compare this to the temperature of the green on.

Take the plugs out (will need to do it for the compression test) and look at the colour of them.

Any blows on the inlet side of things? Any blows in the exhaust?

sorry bit late haha,

also yer hi flow heads done every thing they could to help me with problems, i had like i said even got all them to come in on the a company shut down to sort a problem out for me!

19th May 2010, 22:45

i think if you talk to andy he would try his upmost to sort it out for you he came across as a sound bloke,

but if it not playing up all the time then it sound like a sensor maybe not working as it should.

as it could of been all working correctly at AT speed, like you said so they wouldnt pick anything up.

19th May 2010, 22:46

Get a video of you driving the car.

19th May 2010, 22:49

read this about running in...

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/runin.htm

should help you out abit, need to biuld your rpm up and and use more throttle

hope this help you in that dude.

also i am not trying to be c**t if it comes across like that just trying to help you up dude.

as i know how annoying when things dont work like you want

19th May 2010, 23:06

the map sensor is a new one supplied by highflow heads
the 02 sensor if from my car as is the ecu and these both worked fine with a L&B flywheel with no idle issues.

the throttle body was a bastard to open when 1st fired up
the cams were run in as per the paper work supplied with the engine, the paper work also said the engine was built with assembly paste but after 20 mins of running the oil was still clear and all the engines i build with assembly paste turn the oil black within about 2 mins

19th May 2010, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

read this about running in...

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/runin.htm

should help you out abit, need to biuld your rpm up and and use more throttle

hope this help you in that dude.

also i am not trying to be c**t if it comes across like that just trying to help you up dude.

as i know how annoying when things dont work like you want

Nah its cool dude i need the help!
I only stuck under 5000rpm as the running in procedure from hiflow said to. Athough if im honest i went out on a really pissed off drive and did pretty much what it just said in the pumaracing thing but stuck to 5000rpm lol

TBH i think it may be the TB as the butterfly thing looked rusty! when i first got the engine and was hard to open at first.
The tappety noise is also REALLY pissing me off!! And that squeeky noise at the back of the car Martin

19th May 2010, 23:25

Replace the TB with one not attacked by stevie himself, and go from there?

'sounds like a taxi' isn't a great way to describe a new engine, maybe the hg is on upside-down. It's been done before on TU engines.....

19th May 2010, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Replace the TB with one not attacked by stevie himself, and go from there?

'sounds like a taxi' isn't a great way to describe a new engine, maybe the hg is on upside-down. It's been done before on TU engines.....

It just sounds very tappety especially higher revs hence like a taxi lol

19th May 2010, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

It just sounds very tappety especially higher revs hence like a taxi lol

I personally wouldn't take it to the Nurbergring with it like that - you could do more damage than good, to the engine, and to any chances of getting it sorted out.

19th May 2010, 23:31

Looks like im driving a 206 gti 138 ARGH!!!

19th May 2010, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Looks like im driving a 206 gti 138 ARGH!!!

it still doesn't sort your problem with your 106 gti though.

20th May 2010, 00:57

Just took it for a short drive and i think it has to be the TB it feels very sluggish low down and takes ages like it struggling to get the air in only seems to work when you keep accelerating if i stay at same speed it will get sluggish again.

How much would a new TB be?
And 2nd hand?
Going to beg any garage to do it for friday for the cheapest price..

20th May 2010, 07:49

need a vid of this nosie sound like the followers are not right,

i think you should ring hi flow heads. and just talk to andy there i am sure he will be willing to sort it out.

20th May 2010, 07:54

The car sounds like it needs sorting once & for all 3k on motor mods is a waste of good money. You should have just put the cash towards a civic r or Clio 182.

Take the 206 to the ring & take it easy ....

Have fun

20th May 2010, 08:23

Ross dont think itdd be headgasket seated wrong, I had an engine built for me that had that issue. and it wouldnt have lasted long! Definately not event he run in procedure of the engine,

Are the cams dialled in correctly? Could be wildly timed, hence sluggish/shit idle and no acceleration. If the tapping gets louder at higher rpm could also be the valve float playing a part..ptv. throttle body alterations would affect fuelling qlot at idle, but map sensor should help a little..

When its running take the oil cap off and have a look for any oil in the head. Wouldnt have thought it would be the crank sensor but could be something to try if you have another to swap it with..?

20th May 2010, 08:24

edit, read raunchz post #42 and try all that.

20th May 2010, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathon5

The car sounds like it needs sorting once & for all 3k on motor mods is a waste of good money. You should have just put the cash towards a civic r or Clio 182.

Umm on reflection YES lol

20th May 2010, 11:39

AHA! Taken it to atspeed and apprantly the idle speed control valve isn't receiving a signal from ecu so its a loom or ecu fault! Suppose i'll have to wait to get the predator before i can find out!

20th May 2010, 11:53

My email from andy...

Don't know where to start but i am very disappointed with the engine so far. Martin from Tweed gave me a list of problems (and photo evidence if need proof) with the engine.

I'll list them off

1) Exhaust manifold bolts were loose and 3 of them wern't fitted (you may have explained this one to me)
As per our previous e mail the exhaust manifold was temporary fitted. We remove the manifold to fit the engine. We fitted the exhaust to cover the exhaust ports to stop anything falling inside the engine ONLY. This is why you were given a box of nuts and bolts. If I had forgotten to fit the bolts then why would I give you a box of nuts !!

2) Cam cover bolts were loose
Cam cover should have been removed prior to starting as per our Start Up Procedure Sheet that was sent to you. I very much doubt these were loose

3) Heat wrap fitted to top half of manifold only and not tight.
We had a manifold in stock which was half wrapped. Your were never invoiced for us to supply you a heat wrap nor for fitting one. I thought I would just give you something for nothing.

4) Plastic top hose connector broken.
Need a better description

5) Cyl head oil drain pipe replaced with silicone pipe.
The reason for this is that you were given a Heavy duty TURBO block. We use these on all our +250bhp turbo supercharged engines as they are stronger. We have to drill an additional breather in the sump - RRP for these blocks are £350+vat. You were NEVER invoiced for this.

6) Oil level sensor not standard item and item fitted is broken with no way of attaching the plug.
Our company policy is that we do not supply 2nd hand sensors with our engines. Our sensors are simply fitted to plug holes hence why we deliberately cut off the electrical connectors. These are fitted to stop the ingress of dirt into the engine. You need to replace our ‘plugs’ with your sensors - this way at least you know your sensors work

7) Black silicone sealant used on exhaust manifold.
Not sure why you feel that this is incorrect. We use a 1200 degrees RTV sealant @ £24 a tub from Wurth that is used for sealing exhausts. Are you aware that if you use exhaust paste this blocks the CAT.

8) Inertia switch taken out of loom so vehicle does no longer use one.
You told us that Martin was going to wire the Loom for you and therefore we have not touched it. I recall that you complained about it’s condition and I explained to you that it’s an old loom. Some of the very early cars did not have interia switches on them. If it’s not there then either Martin has removed it or it was never there to begin with. If you check the pins on the fuel pump relay you would find out if the interia switch was ever there. This is a very simply check to-do and I am surprised that Martin didn’t know this.

9) Ecu was supplied locked. This ECU was supplied to us as “unlocked” and it would appear that we have been sold a locked unit. As explained to you we are more than happy to unlock this for you at our cost. Given that we were not passed the correct details for collection of the ECU we have had to pay TWO failed collection charges for this.

10) No dipstick.
I sent you a replacement dipstick two weeks ago.

The engine is also ridiculously tappety sounds like a taxi! The engine also is not idleing well at all at roundabouts junctions etc the engine has stalled with no warning leaving me minimal brakes and steering.
It will take about 1000 miles for the engine to bed in because all the hydraulic lifters were drained. The stalling and bad idle is because the fuelling has NOT been adjusted to suit a larger 16v engine and all the engine mods. After all, you are running an L4 car on a fuel injection system that was designed to run on an L3 car. Martin needs to sort the fuelling out for you. If we had done the conversion for you this would have been sorted prior to you taking delivery of your car.

I have paid £278 today to have the car sorted for my holiday had a smoke test done and the inlet manifold needed sealiing upper to lower half and plugged up. Open charcoal filter was taken off and replaced with new one and idle control? valve replaced.
Again, additional costs have been incurred to try and resolve an idling issue when the ISSUE clearly is the lack of fuelling that is causing the bad idling. If the idle control valve was faulty then why has a replacement idle control valve not resolved your problem. The answer clearly is the idle control is not faulty nor is the air chamber leaking.

I am SO disappointed i was expecting something that felt factory fresh that worked well and fast. I haven't taken it over 5000revs and it feels very slow it sometimes takes a full second to get to 5mph in first gear!
The engine MUST be bedded in and the MOST important thing is that you need to get the fuelling sorted ASAP before it melt pistons because it’s running so lean.

I don't want to sound an ass but i was expecting soo much more considering people have bought and had a conversion for £1000 and are great this is just so not.
I feel I have answered everyone of your Question giving you a detailed account of your concerns.
With regards to the block/exhaust wrap/Map sensor we have supplied you, these are products that you were never even invoiced for in order to give you a better quality product.
With all things, you get what you pay for and you chose to do a conversion through a mate which would keep your costs down. I stated in an email to you on 16 January, “I’m cool about getting it fitted else where, after all its a nightmare doing engine conversions to newer L4 cars LOL
It would appear that in your case it would have been much better to have allowed us to do the conversion for you. The above problems would not have occurred.

In all my years of trading I have never been sent such a list of “issues”. While it is very important for us that our customers are happy with the products that we sell I do feel there needs to be some form of substance to your criticism of our work. For example, complaining about Looms that we have not modified and exhaust systems that have simply been positioned on the engine to enable ease of fitting of engine are in my view are not valid points for you to criticise our work.

You stated in an email on 14 January “And is there anywhere you would recommend for the remap afterwards as ideally i'd want the car mapped to my engine and not just a boggo map for any old vtr.” And my response to you was, “I,d talk to superchip themselves, they do 'live' maps, ie car on site. Which is what you need with an engine of this spec.”

There have been 123 emails between us (you now hold the record for the most email correspondence!) regarding this engine and I have given you an enormous amount of my time and technical knowledge willingly, all free of charge. You state in an email on 12 January that “The price list has confused me a little bit lol im a bit of a technical mong when it comes to engines!” By your own admission you are not technically minded and therefore whoever is involved in this conversion is the one filling your head full of these worries. The real issues that you have is the fuelling and I have discussed this with you in detail in previous emails (see above) and it is of no surprise to me the issues that you are having regarding the general running of the car and it’s poor performance. Again, in my experience, this is pretty basic stuff. I am sure you will understand that we will not be held responsible for the conversion in any way shape or form or any damage that occurs to our engine as a consequence of poor engine set-up. (All as per our terms and conditions which are on our website).

There appears to have been numerous difficulties in fitting this engine and loom and no-one has called me to ask for any help or advice. Now I am now being sent an email and being asked to justify myself????

I am disappointed in your failure to understand the extra mile we have gone to please you. We are experts in our field and we do know what we are doing. Your email is implying that we do not.

Please get back to me,

20th May 2010, 11:54

Now what do i do? Try and get it remapped by superchips or risk blowing pistons waiting for predator?

20th May 2010, 13:21

you ent going to blow pistons dude!

but like i told you it electrical that making the fault with ilding and stalling. not the engine!

why dnt you just ring, then it easier to talk and stuff.

but seem to be what i said it not the engine but the eletronics.

and you ent going to blow it up man!

20th May 2010, 15:19

Im going to go to the ring in my birds 1.0 micra LOL OMG!!!
When i get back i will get the predator mapped and hopefully the probs should end...

20th May 2010, 16:41

The worst thing you can do is rush. Rush to get it going for the 'ring, rush to get my ECU fitted and mapped.

I know it's a PITA... but you've been a bit unlucky.

I also don't think that trying to use a new ECU to fix an engine with other issues isn't an ideal situation, especially the tappy/noisyness I'm reading about!!

Andy

20th May 2010, 16:43

I have just spent 5 minutes reading that, and it sounds like you have just saved up loads of money and just splashed the cash without knowing what your buying....

Just ring them up, or go down there and clear the air!

It just seems you are a bit unlucky with the problems around the engine man!

Sucks about the ring trip!

Good things come to those who wait!

20th May 2010, 16:46

yer it doesnt sound like it the engine itself though, also need to run it in before you took it to the ring!!

i know it would of done a good few miles going there, but sitting at rpm will not run it in well!

so maybe it good you are not going to give it a full throttle round the 'ring' just yet!

20th May 2010, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

The worst thing you can do is rush. Rush to get it going for the 'ring, rush to get my ECU fitted and mapped.

I know it's a PITA... but you've been a bit unlucky.

I also don't think that trying to use a new ECU to fix an engine with other issues isn't an ideal situation, especially the tappy/noisyness I'm reading about!!

Andy

Its definately the tappets but Andy did say it would need 1000miles to run the engine in.

Just sick of spending money tbh but decided we are deffo going in the micra now

20th May 2010, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Its definately the tappets but Andy did say it would need 1000miles to run the engine in.

Just sick of spending money tbh but decided we are deffo going in the micra now

http://www.rent-racecar.de/

I hired a lotus exige s last time i was out there.

Make sure you eat at popeyes in adenau for a monster pizza or the pisten klaus for a steak

Have a safe trip

20th May 2010, 18:33

the fuel system has been converted to L3, it is corect it would not run right on L4 (it woldnt run lean like he said it would be rich due to the lack of a return pipe)

its not an ECU fault as the ecu works 100% on my own car

if your using NEW exhaust gaskets there is no need for ANY exhaust paste and if the exaust was temp fitted and to be removed by me then why was paste used atall??? (or is it magic paste that will only set after the engine has been transported from him to me and ive removed the manifold, fitted the engine then refitted the manifold)

the extra breather they fitted to the engine is standard on 16v blocks(but not on 8v blocks, it has to be drilled and retro fitted if useing a 16v head, its also in the block not in the sump as stated ) a silicone pipe has been used instead of the Genuine metal one from pug for £15

there is also the lack of assembly paste, any good engine builder will use assembly paste on a new build, yet the oil was clear after the cam running in proceadure???

20th May 2010, 22:51

You lost me there buddy...i just want the car working as it should. Do you think the new pred an having it mapped will sort it out?

20th May 2010, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

You lost me there buddy...i just want the car working as it should. Do you think the new pred an having it mapped will sort it out?

A Predator won't sort out tapping from the followers.............

The Predator will enable you to have a nice fuel map for the engine plus it can help to fault find sensors.

20th May 2010, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

A Predator won't sort out tapping from the followers.............

The Predator will enable you to have a nice fuel map for the engine plus it can help to fault find sensors.

If that noise hasn't gone by 1000miles then its nothing to do with the engine not been run in so will speak to andy to get that sorted...also after its mapped etc the car needs some love and attention from martin.

That is if he's not scared away by my car LOL

20th May 2010, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

If that noise hasn't gone by 1000miles then its nothing to do with the engine not been run in so will speak to andy to get that sorted...also after its mapped etc the car needs some love and attention from martin.

That is if he's not scared away by my car LOL

I'd personally expect the followers themselves (not the cam/follower faces) to be 'run in' pretty quickly as soon as the engine is started.

All they do is fill up with oil hence they are 'hydraulic followers'.

It's best to stick to the instructions that came with the engine from hiflowheads 100%, and then if there's any problems then you can go from there.

20th May 2010, 23:57

I've fitted brand spanking new followers to cars before, and they *instantly* are quiet. There is no tapping for "xxx" miles.

Andy

21st May 2010, 19:32

as stated above hydraulic followers dont need running in, they fill up instantly (plus i always disconnect the coil pack and wind the engine over on the key for a min to fill them up and prime the oil pump before a start up on a new engine)

the point i was making about highflow was that he has shot himslef in the foot with his email to you

he said he put sealant on the manifold to seal it, then he said he didnt do up the manifold cos he knew i would take it off.
why seal it if he knew it was coming apart???

you dont buy an airfix kit with the glue already on the parts.

i dont think the pred will cure the running fault cos im sure its down to that TB
ive fitted 270 cams on a standard ecu and they have run fine (yes it will run better mapped but they wont make it run like shit on a standard engine) ive also run an L&B flywheel WITH the ECU that is on your car at the mo and it ran and drove perfect so its not that that is the fault

the other bit that concerns me is your battery, it worked fine with your VTR engine and started it no problem but would not turn over the 16v especially when hot, which leads me to beleive the engine is too tight

21st May 2010, 19:48

The Pred will tell you if any of the sensors are giving shocking readings, which can help pin down the cause of running issues.

Andy

21st May 2010, 20:53

im not saying the pred is a bad idea (thinking about it for my turbo engine

)
i was just saying there are other issues that need sorting 1st

21st May 2010, 20:58

Well we shall sort it out next week hopefully

21st May 2010, 21:03

ill say again. sounds like cam timing to me.

Did you try turning it over by hand to see if it was tight before hand? Check earth strap from chassis to engine isnt getting hot.

22nd May 2010, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Well we shall sort it out next week hopefully

Why aren't you at the ring ?

27th May 2010, 02:56

Just got back so amazing i will do a thread on it when i get the chance-amazing!!!

11th June 2010, 11:51

Hi Joe

This is Andy from Hiflowheads here (sorry about the user ID – it’s my wife's!!)

I don't usually do this but I thought it might be useful if I logged on and gave a little bit of input from someone who does these conversions on a daily basis. As stated in my previous +120 emails to you, yes that was 120 emails - I will do all I can to help you.

First of all, we quoted for a complete conversion. This included removal, fitting, splicing of loom, supplying fan sensor and splicing in the loom to ensure ALL SENSORS WORK. It was your decision to use someone else and get the job done cheaply. Therefore my contract with you was to supply you a fully rebuilt 1.6 16v engine and supply you with all electrics and ECU associated with this. As you know I had been sold a locked ECU that unfortunately we supplied you - we have rectified this and it is on its way down to you today.

I will once again highlight that I am very approachable and I would be more than happy to talk to you on the phone and help you in any way I can. As I am sure you will appreciate I didn’t do any of the loom work and I certainly didn’t get involved in the fitting or set up of the engine. If you had phoned me direct I would have been more than happy to offer some advice.

I really don’t want to cover old ground but at around our 80th email, prior to you going for the 16v conversion, I clearly stated that doing an L4 conversion was a nightmare even for an expert to do and I was more than happy to not be involved in that.

Whoever did your conversion should have been well aware that it was a difficult job but should have been able to overcome the numerous issues which are associated with L4 to L3 conversions. I’m not rubbing salt into your wounds but I quoted you a price to do the full conversion and within that price I added in the extra work and the extra parts required to give you a properly running car. It does concern me that you are constantly reporting back to me that the ECU is not picking up a signal from the TPS. One has to ask why this fault was not looked at and rectified prior to you collecting your car. The other issue which I feel is the main one, is that no consideration has been shown with reference to the fuelling. L3 cars run on a fuel supply and return basis and L4 cars simply run on fuel supply as the PRV is located in the tank. Again, this is pretty basic stuff. It doesn’t take Einstein to see that you are missing one fuel pipe.

As for the tapping noise that you are having, during rebuild we drain all the hydraulic lifters and remove all the old oil and compress the hydraulic pistons. If you don’t do this you run the risk of contaminating your new engine with old shitty engine oil and you run the risk of the hydraulic lifters jacking themselves further open. On start up you lose valve to piston clearance and smash all the valves into the piston crowns. The tapping noise that you are getting is due to air that is trapped in the hydraulic lifters. This will remedy itself within 500 – 1000 miles. I would also like it noted that the engines are not built with assembly paste. The engines are pre-oiled (we have a priming rig on-site which injects oil into all the oil galleries so we can test oil flow). Although I don’t feel it is an issue, you did say in a last email that the engine was only topped up with oil after its initial run. THIS IS NOT AS OUR PROCEDURE STATES. My advice to you is to read the Start up Procedure and complete the second most important thing.

I am very disappointed in your actions. It’s only recently that I become aware of your offensive and derogatory post about Hiflowheads which I asked you to remove. Perhaps I would have understood your comments had we actually done the conversion for you in full and handed the car back to you in that state.

I run a successful business with my wife. I am a 41 year old mechanical engineer and father of two young boys. Believe you me I have no desire to "rip you off" - or anyone else for that matter! Do you really believe that I would have given you so many hours of my time and passed on my technical knowledge to you if I was going to "rip you off?"

Andy
Hiflowheads
www.hiflowheads.co.uk

11th June 2010, 20:32

hi Andy... this is the andy that brought the baffled sump and all ther parts off you a few months back.... i have to say that i did tell him that you was a very good bloke to talk very easy to talk to and very helpful.

and you even went in on your week off to sort out my delivery problem which was not down to you but the delivery company... i think some of the commets he posted was abit out of order.... as seem to be the managment problems not the engine itself....

i think he jump to blame the easiest person and never really contacted you to sort it just ranted on here about the company... for some reason didnt want to ring you :s i did tell him that everytime even about 4 times in one day everytime you was very helpful and always had time to sort my issue out

i would say the costumer serivce was 10 out of 10 with Hi flow heads!!

12th June 2010, 22:37

Hi Andy, thanks for the support. Believe you me its a real breath of fresh air to read your positive factual experiences with us on a forum.

I would like to highlight to other forum members that we can supply loom kits for vts and gti conversions. All we need is the loom from your existing car and the loom from the engine which you intend to transplant. We can then simply splice the two together. We can also make replacement looms. Please dont hesitate to give us a call if anyone is interested.

Hope we can be of service to you again Andy.

13th June 2010, 15:49

Hi Andy,

To be fair i think i overreacted a tad but spending that sort of money and not having the results i wanted made me lash out at who i thought was to blame.

With reference to the fuelling a fuel return line was plumbed in with the conversion.

The only things i am a little miffed with is the fact that i am having to pay to get my cam timing adjusted as its not quite right and having the timing belt etc loosened as the engine struggles to turn over-seems quite tight.

One question i do have is Andy (from datashift) is concerned about the injectors at the top end and we were wondering why 3 injectors are a turqouise colour and one is orange?

Joe

13th June 2010, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tittie

Hi Andy, thanks for the support. Believe you me its a real breath of fresh air to read your positive factual experiences with us on a forum.

I would like to highlight to other forum members that we can supply loom kits for vts and gti conversions. All we need is the loom from your existing car and the loom from the engine which you intend to transplant. We can then simply splice the two together. We can also make replacement looms. Please dont hesitate to give us a call if anyone is interested.

Hope we can be of service to you again Andy.

yer no problem.... the dealing with you and your company was very good... sorted out the problems i had and fast delivery

13th June 2010, 21:47

converting an L4 to L3 is not ''a difficult job'' it just requires a fuel return fitting in to the car (which has been done on this car). This engine was not fitted by someone who does this for a hobby and was not the 1st engine conversion i have done.

as for tappets taking 1000 miles to fill with oil LOL, another point i made earlyer in the thread but has obviously been missed, why andy would you use sealant on the exhaust manifold gasket if you knew the manifold was to be removed ???

13th June 2010, 22:35

Its done 1250 miles now lol still noisy...