turbo manifold

28th May 2010, 00:22

does anyone know if i would get more power from a dp engineering manifold rather than a cituning manifold?

what are the pros and cons about both manifolds?

28th May 2010, 03:00

As far as I am aware the length of each exhaust 'tube' that goes to the turbo unit itself should be of equal length to ensure that exhaust gas flow is kept at as consistant pressure and gas flow as possible.

Looking at the designs of each it appears the DP Engineering one seems to be constructed in that manner where as the Cituing one does not. Take from that what you will, the best bet would be to gather performance figures and what not from people; I doubt many people have run/dyno'd both on an identical setup.

28th May 2010, 07:32

I read something once on a big spec honda turbo engine, they got an extra 40 something bhp with equal length on back to back dyno runs.

but unless your chaseing pritty big figures a itunning will be fine

28th May 2010, 17:35

i will only be using standard internals untill a later date but hoping to go forged after i got everything setup... want to aim for around 250bhp

28th May 2010, 17:38

take a look at my blog mate,

just what you looking for, i have a CiTuning manifold and 248bhp atf

and still standard internals, for now

28th May 2010, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gixxa

i read something once on a big spec honda turbo engine, they got an extra 40 something bhp with equal length on back to back dyno runs.

But unless your chaseing pritty big figures a itunning will be fine

did you get yours on yet mate? Still got the turbo running?

28th May 2010, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

did you get yours on yet mate? Still got the turbo running?

yeah keeping if for another year, found the t28 to laggy for my needs so bought a t25.
Its on stand alone ecu now aswell.

28th May 2010, 18:11

awesome mate, you got any figures? cani bug you for a link to your thread if youve updated more?

28th May 2010, 18:18

i will be going for a gt25 for time being and then later upgrade to a gt28

would it be better to get the dp manifold with the external wastegate flange or without the flange?

28th May 2010, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug106-GTI

i will be going for a gt25 for time being and then later upgrade to a gt28

would it be better to get the dp manifold with the external wastegate flange or without the flange?

with flange then it gives you the option, can allways just blank it of with a plate

28th May 2010, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

awesome mate, you got any figures? cani bug you for a link to your thread if youve updated more?

not updated in ages, drop me a pm if you want

28th May 2010, 18:20

won,t make any noticable difference which manifold you use .
I personally think the dp one is far too big -leaves little spce under the bonnet -yes it looks cool ,but I doubt you will see any difference in power .just less space to work with

28th May 2010, 18:54

i been trying to read up about the external wastegates but dont understand properly about them

could you guys please help explain what i would benefit if i had an external wastegate?

28th May 2010, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug106-GTI

i been trying to read up about the external wastegates but dont understand properly about them

could you guys please help explain what i would benefit if i had an external wastegate?

Better boost control, but its not need with a saxo. Big power YB's often use external wastegates but there running 30psi plus.

29th May 2010, 00:06

i will be upgrading to forged pistons rods and crank etcc eventually, so would it not really be any use going for the external wastegate?

29th May 2010, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug106-GTI

i will be upgrading to forged pistons rods and crank etcc eventually, so would it not really be any use going for the external wastegate?

Personally i'd say stick with an internal one, makes things alot easier and you wont need that level of boost control.

29th May 2010, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug106-GTI

i will be upgrading to forged pistons rods and crank etcc eventually, so would it not really be any use going for the external wastegate?

I did read that the standard crank is usable upto some pretty high horsepower, not sure of the number, 500 springs too mind but that seems excesive, try and find the thread on here.

29th May 2010, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluenotesmiley

I did read that the standard crank is usable upto some pretty high horsepower, not sure of the number, 500 springs too mind but that seems excesive, try and find the thread on here.

do not even dream of 500bhp --the cost to do is silly --totally unusable and you will have nothing but trouble --and could you really afford 5mpg -even 300 is more than enough for the chassis + transmission + there are no 500bhp tu engines anywhere but the drag strip running shit loads of nos and running 10secs at a time

29th May 2010, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

do not even dream of 500bhp --the cost to do is silly --totally unusable and you will have nothing but trouble --and could you really afford 5mpg -even 300 is more than enough for the chassis + transmission + there are no 500bhp tu engines anywhere but the drag strip running shit loads of nos and running 10secs at a time

Yeah I know that is silly power but the OP stated he wanted to uprate the crank and I was pointing out that it might not be required as I thought the standard can handle pretty big power, could be wrong but I am sure that is what I read. I don't suppose you know the maximum power the crank can handle?

29th May 2010, 10:37

nope --never Had one break--you will destroy everything else before the crank is a problem --providing you are not stretching the rpm too much above normal

29th May 2010, 12:40

I honestly don't see why people obsess about equal length turbo manifolds. If gas speed is your primary focus, then Im assuming people have done the gas-flow calc's to conclude that a difference in tube length of what, an inch or two, is significant in terms of velocity?

Surely, if your going to try to get the overall length 'identical', you will also wish to use the exact same number of bends, part-bends, straight sections, etc? How many pipe diameters after a bend should the next be placed, etc? Its not gonna work out...

Does anyone consider the additional surface distortion of many, many welds of fancy designed pipes? Maybe all seem welds should be internally polished so that surface roughness and frictional losses aren't introduced. That said, a bit of roughness might improve turbulent flow.

I think its best to create a very simple design, with as few bends as possible and similar length tubes. Anything else (in my opinion) is over designed to look fancy and not necessarily to be functional, which is fine if thats what you're after... but don't kid yourself about equal lengths.

29th May 2010, 16:06

this is my mani, simple...but effective, no its not the prettiest (will be getting some new black heatwrap fittd in a tidier manner the atm before it fit but hey ho lol) bu itll do for my requirements, wont take up too much room in the bay, and should knock out some decent figures for the spec.

29th May 2010, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

nope --never Had one break--you will destroy everything else before the crank is a problem --providing you are not stretching the rpm too much above normal

Cheers that is what I thought.

29th May 2010, 16:40

Is that a custom, or a Cituning? Youve confused me with it being upside down

Looks like it will pertrude a fair amount from the block, but should easily be able to work around that.

As a comparison, heres a couple of shots of the manifolds Ive used.

Firstly my old cast unit, which was cut/shut - not pretty, but was functional for quite a few years. Now included in my turbo for sale bits...

And secondly, my custom stainless item, which was based upon the cast footprint. This has also worked really well for quite some years.

29th May 2010, 16:47

its a custom simo, i had a cituning but bought a full conversion a short while ago, its not that bad for pace with the turbo on, its a nice well made mani, sorry only pic ive got atm, will tag some more in when i get it down(all boxed up in the loft) should be going on the quicky vtr in a few weeks, all stainless, purged to seam weld the inside to a smooth finish. this is the downpipe to go with it (got the turbo etc too) its a well made piece of kit, keeps things nice a tidy in the bay, needs a good clean although i dont know why as they dont stay shiny long lol
andy

29th May 2010, 23:45

Good stuff andy. I'm assuming you're running your exhaust outlet on the non alternator side? Not seen that done before in person... Will look forward to it!

30th May 2010, 00:11

turbo is t25 from a 200sx mate, not quite sure how it sits as ive not mocked it up as of yet, but was run on jasons car for a good while, non alternator side yeah. cant wait to get it all running, dont think itll be turbo' for fcs but should be ready for a few shows after.
andy