air fuel ratio on vtr turbo help please.

1. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

   #1 17th June 2010, 19:47

   i have a 2001 vtr turbo that is not running right. it has a cituning stage 2 turbo kit with water injection. also has lc2 wideband lamba sensor and mf2 running the 5th injector.
   the problem i have have is that the car is running 10.- on the gauge and if im right it should be about 13. what could be the likely cause to this low air fuel ratio? i have swapped the map sensor, throttle postitioning sensor what else could be causing it to run like this? thanks ryan
2. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

   #2 17th June 2010, 20:00

   What load are you at when you're experiencing 10 AFR? That's loooooowwww, even for WideOpenT
3. webby Established Member Joined: Jul 2007 manchester Posts: 2456

   #3 17th June 2010, 20:03

   lambda sensors ryan. the car does run very rich but on boost it leans out to about right, up untill about 5.5-6k where it runs a touch lean. it shoud be 14.1 normal and around 13 at WOT.
   
   sayer thats tickover
4. Simop Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Warrington Posts: 20561 Blue Saxo VTS Turbo/White Megane F1 R26

   #4 17th June 2010, 20:58

   What ECU and MAP sensor are you running? If std ECU, sounds like the problem, as will not cope with seeing boost and will default to sensor fault.
5. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

   #5 17th June 2010, 21:02

   Be careful with intake temps when trying to target set afr's if you're on standard pistons, I presume the intake temps are already high if you need water injection ?
6. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

   #6 17th June 2010, 21:05

   it has standard ecu and map sensor. i did change the 2 lamba sensors also, but no difference then either. (the car runs at 9/10 afr on tick over from cold and doesnt change when warm/hot.)
7. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

   #7 18th June 2010, 00:08

   and what happens if you disconnect the extra injecotrs at idle?
   if it goes back to the 114-1 then your mf2 is set wrong .
   sure you have calibrated your lc2 correctly?
   I am guessing your are not using the mf2 with a secondary map sensor
   13-1 on bboost is too lean
8. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

   #8 18th June 2010, 09:19

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by axsaxoman and what happens if you disconnect the extra injecotrs at idle? if it goes back to the 114-1 then your mf2 is set wrong . sure you have calibrated your lc2 correctly? I am guessing your are not using the mf2 with a secondary map sensor 13-1 on bboost is too lean

   nothing happens when i disconnect the 5th injector. yes i def calibrated the lc2 correctly. i dont think i have a 2nd map sensor, could this be the reason?
9. user_10473 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2006 Swansea Posts: 4946 Bianca White Peugeot 106 S2 Rallye, Saxo VTS

   #9 18th June 2010, 09:25

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by ryanessex nothing happens when i disconnect the 5th injector. yes i def calibrated the lc2 correctly. i dont think i have a 2nd map sensor, could this be the reason?

   What map sensor are you using?
   
   Sounds like it could well be your problem.
10. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

    #10 18th June 2010, 09:39

    im not to clued up on all this turbo stuff yet but i think its just the standard vtr one thats in the inlet mani?!
11. Simop Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Warrington Posts: 20561 Blue Saxo VTS Turbo/White Megane F1 R26

    #11 18th June 2010, 10:53

    The standard map sensor and ecu don't understand boost (above a certain, low limit). This is why people fit a gmc sig con unit or standalone ecu, to get the car to fuel correctly and use lambda control, when not on full throttle.
12. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

    #12 18th June 2010, 12:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Simo The standard map sensor and ecu don't understand boost (above a certain, low limit). This is why people fit a gmc sig con unit or standalone ecu, to get the car to fuel correctly and use lambda control, when not on full throttle.

    i understand but still have an issue of running rich on idle which should be standard vtr afr right? p.s thanks for the help everyone im learning!
13. Simop Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Warrington Posts: 20561 Blue Saxo VTS Turbo/White Megane F1 R26

    #13 18th June 2010, 12:46

    I would imagine that the map and lambda are throwing up faults in the ecu, so it doesn't trust these sensors and over fuels. You can't run boost if your sensors/ecu don't understand what it is.
14. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

    #14 18th June 2010, 14:22

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Simo I would imagine that the map and lambda are throwing up faults in the ecu, so it doesn't trust these sensors and over fuels. You can't run boost if your sensors/ecu don't understand what it is.

    ok thanks. so would a destek would sort all this out then? or do i need a uprated map sensor aswell or a 2nd one?
15. atspeedracing Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2008 ESSEX Posts: 727 106 GTi Turbo

    #15 18th June 2010, 14:36

    you should be looking for 14s around light throttle driving, around 13.5-13 higher rpm, higher load, there are variables regarding the afr on boost, state of tune etc, most tuners would be looking for certainly something between 11.5-12.3 area, but obviously depends on the engine.
    
    if your in the 13s on boost you should be expecting problems!
16. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

    #16 18th June 2010, 14:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by atspeedracing you should be looking for 14s around light throttle driving, around 13.5-13 higher rpm, higher load, there are variables regarding the afr on boost, state of tune etc, most tuners would be looking for certainly something between 11.5-12.3 area, but obviously depends on the engine. if your in the 13s on boost you should be expecting problems!

    i havent really got as far as what the afr is on boost. i want to sort out why its in the 9's/10's on tick over before anything else really.
17. ryanessex Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 Gt Totham, Essex Posts: 2741 2002 furio

    #17 19th June 2010, 21:14

    today i swapped the ecu set and the afr went up to 15.- ish. took it for a little drive and its holding back in some spots.