Important! : car shuts off on the duel carridgeway FIXED!!! However may need one more thing

  1. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #1
    My car isnt working well lately bad weather has caused a corroded hole in the roof and the engine missfires, shunts forwards when trying to accelerate, EML flashes really fast for a coule of seconds. And today on the way home from having a full diagnostic of the car the engine managment light comes back on the car shuts off but the dial needles went funny before shutting off. When i managed to restart it it shaked so i hit hard on the throttle to clear it and drove off. Managed to get home. However after the diagnostic only one fault appeared. Injection, the macanic who is my uncle told me to fix this out of process of elimination, starting with HT leads and plugs which i bought today from euro car parts, then if all fails change the ignition coil and if all fails then come back as its something deeper. It only used to do this behavior during cold or wed mornings/days but now it happens even on a hot day.

    I hear lamba sensor can be due to this aswell what ever that is lol.

    Sorry not big on engines im an electronics and electrics guy but learning

    If it helps ive recentely put a streight through pipe on to make it decat as my cat was under the car not in mani. And a pico 3" backbox too but not sure this matters never used to when i had a decat 4" backbox



    Cheers
  2. Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2010 Essex Posts: 841 Citroen Saxo VTS
    #2
    lamba sensor might be it mate, it comes off of the manifold and plugs into some other wiring. Basically the lamba sensor is the thing that controls how much oxygen goes through or something or other so that could affect it I guess.
  3. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #3
    Well going to put ht leads on tonight hope that sorts it then try ignition coil, then try lamba sensor. how much for a lamba sensor?
  4. Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 167
    #4
    i think it was some think like 60 gbp +- 10
  5. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #5
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alendil View Post
    i think it was some think like 60 gbp +- 10
    ? sorry dont follow
  6. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #6
    He means 60 quid give or take 10 pound.
  7. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2009 Costa Del Posts: 8010
    #7
    Coilpack!!!
  8. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #8
    Final test tomorrow but we beleive all fixed all it was the HT leads. Just replaced them and is running smoother than ever
  9. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Bridgend Posts: 231 VTS 2002 - well the Mrs does
    #9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bradtate View Post
    lamba sensor might be it mate, it comes off of the manifold and plugs into some other wiring. Basically the lamba sensor is the thing that controls how much oxygen goes through or something or other so that could affect it I guess.
    For interest only...

    The lambda sensor, in very simple terms, monitors the air/fuel ratio or mixture. The mixture causes a voltage change in the sensor which the ECU reads and adjusts the mixture accordingly. A low voltage (approx .1 to .2V)from the sensor means the exhausted gas is lean so the ECU holds the injectors open a little longer to richen the mixture. Conversely, a high voltage (approx .7 to .8V) indicates a rich mixture so the ECU decreases the time the injectors open for.

    The mixture changes from rich to lean at a rate of about every half a second. The ECU will only read the lambda sensor output ONCE the engine is at near operating temperature.
  10. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #10
    cheers mate learn something new every day. However problem is still occurring. Car drives better and takes no time to start however my engine still cuts off randomly which is now frustrating, the diagnostic didn't pic up anything, and engine management light comes on. It can't be a stall as its during acceleration. What could it be?. Hth leads have been replaced for new ones. Also at stand still it sits at idle and jumps then cuts off. Could this be down to or sound like a lamb sensor problem at idle is jumps then cuts off. Could this be the lamb
  11. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Bridgend Posts: 231 VTS 2002 - well the Mrs does
    #11
    If you have had running issues the lambda sensor can 'coke' up which means it gets heavy carbon deposits on it. The other thing that happens to them is that the heater in them fails which stops the sensor working at low RPM.

    The symptoms you describe can be caused by a fault sensor.

    Here is how you test it (4 wire HEGO sensor)

    1. Measure the voltage between the white wires. This should be battery voltage.

    2. Disconnect the sensor and test the resistance across the two white wires. Should be typically 1-10 ohms. This is the heater coil. If you have no resistance or it is very high then you need to replace the sensor.

    If all above is ok then....

    3. Measure the voltage across the grey and black wires once the engine is hot. You should see it switch between .2V to .8V or 200mV to 800mV.

    If it appears to be locked them it may be faulty.

    4. If the voltage is stuck at say .8V (800mV), whilst the engine is running, introduce a slight air leak into the intake system. It should then switch down to .2V (200mV).

    5. If the voltage is stuck at say .2V (200mV), whilst the engine is running, squirt a short burst of carb cleaner into the air filter. It should then switch up to .8V (800mV).

    If nothing happens in steps 4 and 5 you have a dead sensor.

    When you had the diagnostic test you should have (or garage) seen the output from the sensor on the live data test when the diagnostics were carried out. It may be that you just had a fault code memory scan in which case it may not have shown up as faulty.

    Hope this helps....
  12. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5
    #12
    Quote:
    car shuts off on the duel carridgeway!
    Just use single carridgeways.
    I couldn't resist lol

    I would say spark plugs/HT lead/Coilpack.
  13. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2009 Blackburn Posts: 4739 A few
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Just use single carridgeways.
    I couldn't resist lol

    I would say spark plugs/HT lead/Coilpack.

    I was going to do this but I managed to stop myself

    I would agree with the coil pack tbh, prone to breaking up on saxo's
  14. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Bridgend Posts: 231 VTS 2002 - well the Mrs does
    #14
    I just read your post and spotted the bit about cutting out on acceleration. The lambda sensor would not cause this. At least you know how to test the sensor now

    I would be more inclined to agree with the above....ignition related and/or crank position sensor. Based on the fact that these Saxo's consume coil packs, would be the first thing to look at.
  15. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Just use single carridgeways.
    I couldn't resist lol

    I would say spark plugs/HT lead/Coilpack.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by burgerfeet View Post
    If you have had running issues the lambda sensor can 'coke' up which means it gets heavy carbon deposits on it. The other thing that happens to them is that the heater in them fails which stops the sensor working at low RPM.

    The symptoms you describe can be caused by a fault sensor.

    Here is how you test it (4 wire HEGO sensor)

    1. Measure the voltage between the white wires. This should be battery voltage.

    2. Disconnect the sensor and test the resistance across the two white wires. Should be typically 1-10 ohms. This is the heater coil. If you have no resistance or it is very high then you need to replace the sensor.

    If all above is ok then....

    3. Measure the voltage across the grey and black wires once the engine is hot. You should see it switch between .2V to .8V or 200mV to 800mV.

    If it appears to be locked them it may be faulty.

    4. If the voltage is stuck at say .8V (800mV), whilst the engine is running, introduce a slight air leak into the intake system. It should then switch down to .2V (200mV).

    5. If the voltage is stuck at say .2V (200mV), whilst the engine is running, squirt a short burst of carb cleaner into the air filter. It should then switch up to .8V (800mV).

    If nothing happens in steps 4 and 5 you have a dead sensor.

    When you had the diagnostic test you should have (or garage) seen the output from the sensor on the live data test when the diagnostics were carried out. It may be that you just had a fault code memory scan in which case it may not have shown up as faulty.

    Hope this helps....
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SAM-S44MDS- View Post
    I was going to do this but I managed to stop myself

    I would agree with the coil pack tbh, prone to breaking up on saxo's
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by burgerfeet View Post
    I just read your post and spotted the bit about cutting out on acceleration. The lambda sensor would not cause this. At least you know how to test the sensor now

    I would be more inclined to agree with the above....ignition related and/or crank position sensor. Based on the fact that these Saxo's consume coil packs, would be the first thing to look at.


    Thanks all for the help has enlightern me loads. But little update for you which couldnt be the coil nor the lamba sensor (however will check them both still incase) broke down on the way home sat behind traffic for ages and when i pulled off the car juddered and shut off, so i tried to start the car again and the imobiliser ignition key light flashed and the EML was on and the car wouldnt crank up. So pulled over to one side and called the breakdown that could come ofr 1 hr so sat in the car with everything off and 20 mins later thought i would try it again to my amasment no ignition light no EML and the car started up but was quite ropey, so got the recovey guy to follow me home incase it would do it again.

    This probel has happened for a week now and the worrying this is it could happen at anytine without any warning it just does it when it wants to, so your left on pins if it does it on the way to work

    I asked the recovery guy what it could be and the problems im having and he said on all the saxo breakdowns he has had its always the same problem and that is injection and their is 4 ports, and that 1 always coused problems normally a green one and port 4 he said. Sorry but as you know not clued up on engines im the electrics man

    But what i can say is puting two and two together, this being the diagnostic test at the garage showed injection, and the recovery guy said injection too, i didnt even tell him what the diagnostic said so must be common?

    So if it is injection whats involved in repairing? as ill get my uncles garage to fix this one.


    Sorry for being long winded but its best if i tell you everything so you know whats going on. but what i still cant answer is why did it cut off and for that matter whay did the imobiliser ignition key light flash and prevent me from starting? when it was my origional and even when i tried the spare it did the same?


    Cheers guys
  16. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #16
  17. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
    #17
    i would try coil pack, earths, then intermittant ecu/imob fault, in that order
  18. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2007 Mold Posts: 2936 EP3 Civic Type R
    #18
    I would personally try spark plugs, coil pack and then coolant temp sensor THEN injectors.

    You should sort it pretty quickly otherwise it might become a dear doo! The reason I've said coolant temp sensor is mine pretty much did exactly the same although it never cut out under acceleration. But it did take ages to start, sometimes to the point the battery died! And when left for 20mins or so it worked fine then. It does however sound like a dodgy coil pack with the cutting out whilst the car is moving.
  19. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #19
    I think with everyone saying coil pack is enough for me to change it euro parts do one for £35 ish here it is:

    http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Ci...24a3fee41&IGCO

    There is another one same but differant make for £54 but is it cos of make or would it be more benafital with it or will a standard £35 one do. Dont want to under cut the problem by going cheap if really could do with getting another one.

    Cheers
  20. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5
    #20
    not borrow one off someone you know for a test rather than spending money on a new one just encase?
  21. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #21
    Thats the probs mate no one does
  22. Regular Poster Joined: Dec 2008 Durham Posts: 369 1997 VTR
    #22
    fuel pump, same thing happened with my quicksilver, ran on 3 pots sometimes and then randomly decided to cut out and not start but if you left it for 10 mins it would start again fine, worth a try if you can get a spare one off someone on here as its a 2 min job to change, this may also show up on the diagnostic as low fuel/injector pressure?
  23. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LUK3H View Post
    fuel pump, same thing happened with my quicksilver, ran on 3 pots sometimes and then randomly decided to cut out and not start but if you left it for 10 mins it would start again fine, worth a try if you can get a spare one off someone on here as its a 2 min job to change, this may also show up on the diagnostic as low fuel/injector pressure?
    Thats exactely whats happening however not as bad now but it will happen at any time without warning. Now im stuck because i was to beleive it was the ignition coil as quite a few said and now the fuel pump dont want to be buying things if it does no good. Need a 100% sure its a paticular part. And really hard to find anyone offering a spare to test
  24. Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2009 Middlesbrough Posts: 610 Mx5, Rx8
    #24
    I've got a coil pack and a lambda sensor that you can have for fuck all. Coil packs from a silver top mk1 vtr and lambda sensor is slightly crushed from when I had 421 manifold fitted but it still works fine and flew through emissions tests.

    PM me if you want em
  25. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #25
    Cheers for that man mean alot but its none of them its getting fixed tomorrow at my uncles garage its either the fuel filter or fuel pump but thats getting found

    Thanks again
  26. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #26
    Ok update for you guys had the roof repaired and at the same time got the fuel filter replaced the part came from Citroen themselves as a part was needed for the sunroof. They ran the car in the garage for 1hr and ran it aggressively for 1 hr too to in threory make it cut out, judder, cut out or do any of the following symptems. Nothing went wrong so picked up car happy drove it home and fitted my HIS's back in when i started the car and turned on the HID's the car cut out. Ithought its cos the HID's have just been put in so started the car again and it started but the ignition light came on and wouldnt go off so i give it a spin. 5 mins down the road as i accelerated to 40mph it juddered harshely twise and then corrected itself, but the EML came on the went off. Kept driving around for another 20minsand nothing happened. Why is it still doing it so far ive replaced:

    HT Leads

    Ignition coil

    Crankshaft sensor

    And now the fuel filter


    I think the only thing it could be is the fuel pump itself cos again when i cut out and tried to restart as the ignition light flashed the fuel pump made the groaning noise.


    Any suggestions before i replace the fuel pump?


    Cheers
  27. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #27
    bump really want to get to the bottom of this as its so fustrating
  28. Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H
    #28
    Right engine cut off problem fixed !!!!

    After nearely spending £200 it was down to a dodgy earth connection on the engine block, when the engine is in motion it was vibrating the thread causing it to connect then not connect. But annoyed after replacing the pump costing me £110 inc fitting and didnt need it but the advantage as they are all new parts and igniton coil and ht leads needed replacing as i had a misfire issue.

    However when we listerned to the engine on idle it runs rough as it drops a little then corrects itself so ideally i need to get it tuned up but were is the best place to get a tune up from for Saxo's? cos they do it on mechine now dont they? so correct air intake and fuel intake and stuff? sorry not clued up on engines but this issue has taught me loads lol.


    Cheers for everyones help