Important! : Just fitted cams. NOISE!!!

1. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

   #1 7th November 2010, 14:40

   Just fitted a set of reground cams to my vts
   
   Making a loud ticking noise almost as if the valves are closing too quickly?
   
   Calms down a little once the engines heated up, but still pretty loud.
   
   Could it be that the timing is slightly out?
   
   Or is it bedding in?
2. ldavies Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2008 Driving my GTI Posts: 2659 Boosted 106 GTI 16V Supercharged

   #2 7th November 2010, 14:50

   when i had mine fitted i had to keep the revs below 3k for about 300miles iirc.
   Alot of the times its down to getting the timing set up correctly so wold defo check that.
3. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

   #3 7th November 2010, 15:03

   Did you take the followers out and pump them out?
   
   Where did you set the timing?
4. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

   #4 7th November 2010, 15:24

   I've never revved it over 3500.
   
   Done about 40 miles, surely it would've bedded in by now?
5. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

   #5 7th November 2010, 15:27

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by AndySAXO Did you take the followers out and pump them out? Where did you set the timing?

   Nope
   
   Didn't know you had to do that?
   
   What difference does that make?
   
   Done the timing myself, reset everything to TDC and fitted belt.
6. user_35312 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Coventry CV6 Posts: 2477 Slowda Octavia vRS SOLD - Cam'd Chip'd VTR

   #6 7th November 2010, 15:30

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Chico999 Nope Didn't know you had to do that? What difference does that make? Done the timing myself, reset everything to TDC and fitted belt.

   hi mate, did you fit a vernier pulley when you fitted the cams? If not then the extra duration on the cams will cause the valves to not open/close in time with the turning of the camshaft so timing will slightly out, think you probably need to retard the timing by a few degrees depending on the cam fitted
7. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

   #7 7th November 2010, 15:35

   It's a vts mate, got verniers as standard.
   
   Hmmmmmm unsure if i want to risk that, might give it a bash though.
   
   Anyone know how the timing should be set on newman ph3s?
8. user_35312 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Coventry CV6 Posts: 2477 Slowda Octavia vRS SOLD - Cam'd Chip'd VTR

   #8 7th November 2010, 15:37

   http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=244082 I know this is for a VTR but have a little browse.
9. user_37187 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2009 Stranraer Posts: 3437 bodied VTR

   #9 7th November 2010, 15:38

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Chico999 It's a vts mate, got verniers as standard. Hmmmmmm unsure if i want to risk that, might give it a bash though. Anyone know how the timing should be set on newman ph3s?

   do you not retard them 2 degrees?
10. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #10 7th November 2010, 15:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by -shuggles- do you not retard them 2 degrees?

    Where did ya hear that mate?
11. user_37187 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2009 Stranraer Posts: 3437 bodied VTR

    #11 7th November 2010, 15:46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Where did ya hear that mate?

    was on a thread somebody asking about timing ph3's a while back, don't know if it was for a vtr or s tho
12. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #12 7th November 2010, 15:54

    What cams did you use ?
13. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #13 7th November 2010, 15:57

    Reground standards.
    
    Newman Ph3 spec.
14. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #14 7th November 2010, 16:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Reground standards. Newman Ph3 spec.

    
    They won't be Reground to ph3 spec, you need fresh billets for that.
    
    They should setup on STD timing no problem
    
    Where did you buy them ?
15. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #15 7th November 2010, 16:12

    Hmmmm, don't seem to be.
    
    Unsure if i should give it a go moving the cams and attempting it myself
    
    A guy off here Jim-bob. He bought them off sparco tom i think.
16. user_35312 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Coventry CV6 Posts: 2477 Slowda Octavia vRS SOLD - Cam'd Chip'd VTR

    #16 7th November 2010, 16:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Hmmmm, don't seem to be. Unsure if i should give it a go moving the cams and attempting it myself A guy off here Jim-bob. He bought them off sparco tom i think.

    Sounds like you've been hey-diddle-diddled.
17. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #17 7th November 2010, 16:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lew_C Sounds like you've been hey-diddle-diddled.

    There is a decent power increase mate.
18. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #18 7th November 2010, 16:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Hmmmm, don't seem to be. Unsure if i should give it a go moving the cams and attempting it myself A guy off here Jim-bob. He bought them off sparco tom i think.

    
    They will be kent PT50-E regrinds you can run them without a remap
    
    Not as wild as a 708 or ph3
    
    They should just setup at std timing
    
    I considered getting a set myself
19. brosnan Established Member Joined: May 2008 Kent Posts: 1127 BMW X5 4.4 PETROL

    #19 7th November 2010, 16:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Just fitted a set of reground cams to my vts Making a loud ticking noise almost as if the valves are closing too quickly? Calms down a little once the engines heated up, but still pretty loud. Could it be that the timing is slightly out? Or is it bedding in?

    I have a similar noise, tapping on start up.... thought it was the tappets so changed the oil for thiner. but still does it.....Would this be timing issue???
20. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #20 7th November 2010, 16:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathon5 They will be kent PT50-E regrinds you can run the without a remap Not as wild as a 708 or ph3 They should just setup at std timing

    Apparently they were sent to newman to be reground?
    
    They are setup to standard timing. The noise is coming from the inlet cam i think, heard that you retard it 2 degrees?
21. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #21 7th November 2010, 17:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Apparently they were sent to newman to be reground?

    Those cams were sent to kent to be reground to PT50 spec.
    
    The spec is similar to newman ph2
22. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #22 7th November 2010, 17:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathon5 Those cams were sent to kent to be reground to PT50 spec. The spec is similar to newman ph2

    How do you know that mate?
    
    Think im just gonna take it to a garage, any idea on price to adjust the timing?
23. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #23 7th November 2010, 18:23

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 How do you know that mate? Think im just gonna take it to a garage, any idea on price to adjust the timing?

    I read the original for sale thread by sparco tom
    
    Just get the car rolling road tuned, they will maximise the timing for you for max power well worth the money
24. user_16747 Banned Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 4328

    #24 7th November 2010, 18:39

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonathon5 I read the original for sale thread by sparco tom Just get the car rolling road tuned, they will maximise the timing for you for max power well worth the money

    thats the way to do it!
    Cant just take it down bodgit bob and ask him to sort it as he wont have the skills or resources to adjust them correctly.
25. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #25 7th November 2010, 20:24

    Thats what ill do
    
    How much you reckon it costs?
26. user_35312 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 Coventry CV6 Posts: 2477 Slowda Octavia vRS SOLD - Cam'd Chip'd VTR

    #26 7th November 2010, 20:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Thats what ill do How much you reckon it costs?

    Depending where you take it I'd imagine between £200-350 for a saxo for a bit of custom mapping
27. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #27 7th November 2010, 20:34

    They shouldn't get that noise even on standard marks, I ran Newman ph3 on standard marks and no extra noise.
    
    I bet it the followers as you didn't pump them out and you now changes the cams.
    
    Did you put new ones in or just leave the old ones on?
    
    Should always use new followers with new camshafts as they both wear together.
28. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #28 7th November 2010, 22:42

    No i used the same followers, got told they were fine
    
    How do you pump them out? and for what reason?
    
    Surely not 250+ to set the timing?!
29. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #29 8th November 2010, 00:21

    Anyone?
30. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #30 8th November 2010, 07:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Anyone?

    
    Your car does not need mapping, the rolling road tune should be about £90 - £100 or cheaper depending how long it takes
31. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #31 8th November 2010, 09:12

    Thats not too bad
    
    But surely if it wasnt timed correctly, it wouldnt be ticking, it would just have a really rough idle, or bent valves?
    
    What about a tappet/follower broken? No oil in it?
32. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #32 8th November 2010, 11:11

    Yer should of change the followers, or atleast pump the old oil out before fitting the new cams.
33. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #33 8th November 2010, 11:24

    I got told standard tappets were fine.
    
    I didnt drain the oil from the engine.
    
    How do you pump the old oil out?
34. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #34 8th November 2010, 11:44

    the problem with regrinds is that they remove material from the base circle to get the extra lift. you have probably had too much removed and now when the valves are closed the cam lobe is not staying in contact with the lifter, so that noise your getting is the lobe smacking the top of the lifter.
    
    or your timing is out and the valves are kissing the pistons.
35. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #35 8th November 2010, 13:40

    Yer some re ground cams need the followers shimming to suit, and to pump the followers out need to press them out off all the old oil out, it might not be that but always good to do it so to speak.
36. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #36 11th November 2010, 13:30

    Feel like a complete twat.
    
    Went up to dundee on friday to buy a cammed vts engine, checked the cams (piper 270's) bought it.
    
    Took it home and stripped the cams out, with the intention of putting my standards in it and selling.
    
    Started to dismantle my engine, and once i got the cam cover off, noticed the bolt on the inlet pully was extremely loose, bit of luck it didnt come fully out! So i tightened it up, plugged in the ecu and bam. Perfect, no noise and perfect idling.
    
    I still swapped them for the pipers are they're real uprated cams
37. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #37 11th November 2010, 13:51

    You will need a remap now
38. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #38 11th November 2010, 14:26

    Not really, seem to be running fine with standard timing. Might retard both slightly as that was the setup on the other engine. What major difference will a remap do?
    
    Also i got an ecu that was apparently remapped. Doesnt work on mine.
    
    To remap an ecu do you have to unlock it? Or can it remain locked?
    
    Any way i could tell if it was mapped?
39. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #39 11th November 2010, 16:52

    The remap is needed to get any extra power, you will need to unlock the ecu to try it on your car.
40. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #40 11th November 2010, 16:59

    Piper 270s are the equivilent of newman PH1's iirc, designed to run on standard timing/fueling.
    
    Obviously a remap would help gain those extra few figures, but value for money i wouldnt say its worth it personally unless fitting wilder camshafts.
41. Steffrallye Established Member Joined: Aug 2008 Bodelwyddan , N.Wales Posts: 1252 Peugeot S2 106 GTi 1.6 16v

    #41 11th November 2010, 17:09

    Its nothing to do with the cam,
    
    Its down to the fact your hydralic tappets have ran dry, and for somereason not reset. They may need replacing
42. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #42 11th November 2010, 17:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Steffrallye Its nothing to do with the cam, Its down to the fact your hydralic tappets have ran dry, and for somereason not reset. They may need replacing

    or the fact that the bolt on the pulley was loose
43. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #43 11th November 2010, 18:36

    Yer piper 270 will no need a remap, not worth IMO with them cams, also should work best on standard timing.
44. Chico999 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2007 Dunfermline Posts: 2814 2000 Wicked Red VTS

    #44 11th November 2010, 18:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Steve Piper 270s are the equivilent of newman PH1's iirc, designed to run on standard timing/fueling. Obviously a remap would help gain those extra few figures, but value for money i wouldnt say its worth it personally unless fitting wilder camshafts.

    Think i might sell them and get 708's or Ph3's tbh.
    
    Still quite a decent increase in power with these though.
    
    Much do you think these are worth?
45. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #45 11th November 2010, 19:24

    I sound same spec but the Kent version on here for 150 quid posted so about that many more!!!
46. user_28362 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 5306 911 Turbo

    #46 11th November 2010, 19:50

    Atspeed were doing 708's for £275 posted last month
47. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #47 12th November 2010, 08:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chico999 Think i might sell them and get 708's or Ph3's tbh. Still quite a decent increase in power with these though. Much do you think these are worth?

    I sold my newmans PH1's for £200 posted. so something around that area maybe a bit less.