most bhp can you have on standard internals?

16th November 2010, 21:01

hi just wondering whats the most bhp you can safely run on standard 16v internals? turbo and n/a?

16th November 2010, 21:29

turbo 230 bhp
n/a 175 bhp as you will need to change the pistons for wilder cams

16th November 2010, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathon5

turbo 230 bhp
n/a 175 bhp as you will need to change the pistons for wilder cams

to get a vts to 230bhp youd need about 10psi or probs likley more, i wouldnt say that would last long at all tbh

as for n/a you can get your standard pistons machined to run wilder cams but the higher bhp you run boost or n/a the more unrelaible it will become on stock internals

power doesnt come cheap, its not worth half arsing, it ocsts you more in the long run

16th November 2010, 21:54

id say more like 165bhp on n/a as no one on here has really achieved higher than that with say ph3 and bodies, matt (willsy) made 162 iirc , and sure yates made 160 too and he may be running standard pistons cant remember without looking, but then you look at jpsaxo, josh made 170 and that was with wossner pistons and 708s and was set up with john at gmc

as for boost, how long is a pieceof string, i wouldnt like to say a rough figure on that, i mean some people have made about 230bhp ish from what i have seen like what jonathon5 said, but its touch and go, you could only make 200 before it blows the engine, but i may be wrong on that, but most people do tend so say round 200bhp ish with standard internals, and even then they use say a decompression plate etc

16th November 2010, 22:02

lol 230bhp would never last i dont think...would about 180 on 6psi be safe?....am not doing any heavy mods the now but want to after crimbo so just wondering what i can do without a huge budget lol

16th November 2010, 22:30

even 6 psi doens tcome cheap

16th November 2010, 22:38

tbh half the question would be how good a bottom end have you got is it like new or worn to death

17th November 2010, 00:22

320bhp with decompression plate

17th November 2010, 17:44

thats with standard rods and pistons

17th November 2010, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by housty-vts

lol 230bhp would never last i dont think...would about 180 on 6psi be safe?....

why not?

my gti is running 248bhp atf at 8psi and not had any problems with standard pistons since it was turbo'd 4 years ago

17th November 2010, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roper

why not?

my gti is running 248bhp atf at 8psi and not had any problems with standard pistons since it was turbo'd 4 years ago

thats a pretty healthy figure for 8spi mate, any other mods, think ill have a read of your progress

i thought yours was forged actually

back to the op i suppose it boils down to what management you choose and who maps it

17th November 2010, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roper

why not?

my gti is running 248bhp atf at 8psi and not had any problems with standard pistons since it was turbo'd 4 years ago

not trying to come across the wrong way, but its unlikely that your car is 248bhp at 8psi with the turbo you have. its either running more boost or maybe the turbo isnt what you think it is.

i think its ben vts with the turbo vts that went into the 180 shell? he was running the same setup as you pretty much (and manc too) with around 6psi and have around 170-180bhp, i find it unlikely that 2 more psi can gain 65'ish bhp.

17th November 2010, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

not trying to come across the wrong way, but its unlikely that your car is 248bhp at 8psi with the turbo you have. its either running more boost or maybe the turbo isnt what you think it is.

i think its ben vts with the turbo vts that went into the 180 shell? he was running the same setup as you pretty much (and manc too) with around 6psi and have around 170-180bhp, i find it unlikely that 2 more psi can gain 65'ish bhp.

Ben was running 5psi with bigger injectors and got 199bhp and was 180 with standard injectors i remember his saying as he took me out in his old car with that turbo on it.

17th November 2010, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Ben was running 5psi with bigger injectors and got 199bhp and was 180 with standard injectors i remember his saying as he took me out in his old car with that turbo on it.

well if thats true then its more possible. but 5psi and 200hp is hardly believable. just think a seat leon cupra r with its 1.8 and 20 valves needs around 9-11psi and a big k04 turbo to produce 210bhp...

also, id be guessing a gt17 turbo would be on its limit around 200hp? correct me if im wrong.

17th November 2010, 19:10

Hmm thought ben car was 180 even with the bigger injectors?

Dnt think it was 200 mark, and Manc car was about 170 bhp I think after mapped.

17th November 2010, 19:13

Will have to look at his thread on old car but i know it was 180 with std injectors because they were a about 110% duty.

17th November 2010, 19:13

roper's running turbo cams too, just read the spec on the first page of his blog. the turbo power output is dependant on spec/size of engine also, the gt17 is a hybrid by the looks of things, good mapping its easily do able with those mods id of thought

17th November 2010, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

Hmm thought ben car was 180 even with the bigger injectors?

Dnt think it was 200 mark, and Manc car was about 170 bhp I think after mapped.

think it was 184 or 182 iirc

17th November 2010, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

think it was 184 or 182 iirc

I remember see'ing 199 somewhere and sure it was bhp but must of been torque maybe.

17th November 2010, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

the turbo power output is dependant on spec/size of engine also,

no it isnt..... if you put a t2 on a 3.2 m3 engine it wouldnt flow more than its max flow rate so wouldnt make any more power.

if a gt17 flows enough air for 200bhp that will be about the maximum power it will flow regardless of engine size. the spec of an engine will determine how efficient it makes that power

17th November 2010, 20:41

This why you should stay with n/a engine haha

17th November 2010, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

This why you should stay with n/a engine haha

and have even less power, torque pah.... i dont think soo

17th November 2010, 21:25

I think you all need to read up on compressor maps

Ben's was around 180bhp, the 199bhp one was Dan with the Prism conversion.

Manc's was around 170 I think

You won't get 248bhp off just 8psi, that's not possible. 10psi is around 200bhp.

Andy

17th November 2010, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

no it isnt..... if you put a t2 on a 3.2 m3 engine it wouldnt flow more than its max flow rate so wouldnt make any more power.

if a gt17 flows enough air for 200bhp that will be about the maximum power it will flow regardless of engine size. the spec of an engine will determine how efficient it makes that power

lol thats what i meant mate(i just explained it a little backwards), if the engine isnt capable of flowing that of the turbo, it wont make more power, hence my pointing out the turbo was a hybrid for it making more then its expected power, but saying +48bhp for a hybrid is a lot... thats going off 220 as a bench mark, is this the case? i thought it was slightly higher?

19th November 2010, 17:13

thanks for all you'rte info!! will come in handy in the future

22nd November 2010, 18:57

Probably a bit random, but when i was communicating with DP-Engineering, they made claims of hitting 300 on standard pistons, personally i'd though 250 would be pushing it. 200 is possible as my mechanic had his son's one running with a T3 on standards

22nd November 2010, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukgaz

Probably a bit random, but when i was communicating with DP-Engineering, they made claims of hitting 300 on standard pistons, personally i'd though 250 would be pushing it. 200 is possible as my mechanic had his son's one running with a T3 on standards

like i said earlier in the thread ive seen a 320bhp 106 turbo on standard internals.. that proves with all the right supporting mods and keeping everything efficient you can make good power on standard internals.

24th November 2010, 17:51

There's a guy in netherlands he has DP inlet plenum and DP manifold, unsure what turbo he's running but it was standard internals might have a decomp plate, it was running just over 320bhpish atf.

Diablo GTi and the only problem he had was blowing ma boxes up!

24th November 2010, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyes

There's a guy in netherlands he has DP inlet plenum and DP manifold, unsure what turbo he's running but it was standard internals might have a decomp plate, it was running just over 320bhpish atf.

Diablo GTi and the only problem he had was blowing ma boxes up!

this is the person i am talking about.

few videos on youtube too.