266 or 283?

1. Aly Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341

   #1 28th November 2010, 10:34

   Thinking of brake options for saxo.
   
   Been told 283's are better with the larger GTI-6 brake master cylinder.
   Anyone had both to tell me if it's worth going 283.
   
   I want to use Mintex 1144 pads as I want a 'fast road' setup even though it will be used for track, my Mintex 1144 pads were good on track so don't want anything else.
   
   Cheers
2. L20VTS Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2007 Hams Hall/Spine Road etc Posts: 8076 Still broken ones.

   #2 28th November 2010, 10:37

   I've had 283s and 266 both with standard master cylinder and epic pedal travel but it was fine once I got used to that. Once you get to the bottom of pedal travel especially with the 183s you are practically going through the window!
   
   There's not a massive amount of difference but I will always have 283 mostly because they fill my wheels and look better
   
   I had some form of drilled & grooved disks too early to remember what sort, and green stuff pads, had ebc disks at one point but they were like chocolate!

   1 user thanked this post: Aly
3. Aly Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341

   #3 28th November 2010, 10:39

   Cheers L20!
   Well I don't really pedal travel since for track I want life to be as simple as possible.
   
   283's would look small behind my PR3's lol
4. user_31895 Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2009 Milton Keynes Posts: 601 Polar white VTS Fixed for the 2nd time!

   #4 28th November 2010, 10:51

   you dont really need the bigger brakes. if you were doing extreme track days then i would say yes, but i have done silverston, mallory and rockingham this year on the smaller brakes runnign 5.1 fluid with the same discs and pads and i have had no brake fade at all! hope this helps!
5. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #5 28th November 2010, 10:52

   I asked this question ages ago and now had experience of both.
   
   You probs know some of what il say but for poeple that dont..
   
   266mm bosche calipers are the ones to get with better pads and wider discs. You can also get lucas and theyre perfectly fine too tbh.
   
   283 GTI6 and GTI180 are both heavy setups, and belive me the GTI180 are stoooopidly heavy and therefore more rotational mass which isnt really worth the penalty for having the larger 283 setup over the 266.
   
   266 are the better setup on the saxo with a great improvment over the standard without being too heavy.
   
   Either setup id run with the 23mm MC. Im running GTI180s with standard (well was before it came off the road) and it was fine, took abit of getting used to...abit like when you brake on a bike and you keep moving because the brakes dont work lol. But when they do bite theyre hench!
   
   Only advantage of the 283 setups in my mind is if you're going to be doing high speeds or regulary braking from a high speed.
   
   My verdict would be the 266mm Bosche Calipers off the later models - Standard saxo brakes were a waste of time being fitted when they could have fitted 266mm as said before the standard saxo size brakes are false economics.

   1 user thanked this post: Aly
6. Aly Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341

   #6 28th November 2010, 10:58

   I would keep my 247 calipers but the rubber seals are starting to go.
   Think I'm gonna go to 266's
   Cheers.
7. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #7 28th November 2010, 10:59

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Aly I would keep my 247 calipers but the rubber seals are starting to go. Think I'm gonna go to 266's Cheers.

   What wheels you got, couse you said 283s would look small under them. Are they heavy wheels?
8. Aly Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341

   #8 28th November 2010, 11:08

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by db_sax What wheels you got, couse you said 283s would look small under them. Are they heavy wheels?

   Team Dynamics Pro Race 3.
   Not heavy wheels but have very chunky spokes.
   Can imagine you'd be able to fit some huge brakes under them.
9. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #9 28th November 2010, 11:11

   Theyre 15's aint they?
10. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #10 28th November 2010, 13:59

    i run 266 lucas on my track car. they are a great upgrade. only problem is motorsport pads are more expensive than the more common 283 and there is less choice.
    
    i use a standard m/c and lines.
    
    have recently been thinking of the 283 but swaying more toward 4 piston calipers too.
    
    its all about budget too. 266 are going to be cheaper.
11. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #11 28th November 2010, 14:05

    i dont think you will have any problems with either so long as you use good quality pads and discs...
    
    266's with brembo discs and carbonne lorraine pads would do the trick.
12. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #12 28th November 2010, 14:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dannygti i dont think you will have any problems with either so long as you use good quality pads and discs... 266's with brembo discs and carbonne lorraine pads would do the trick.

    The 283mm are really too heavy, even the 266mm setup spoils handling but both will perform well with better heat capacity. You will notice a massive difference in pedal feel if you get proper performance pads for any caliper including the standard ones (which incidently would be even cheaper to source or replace the seals)
13. user_39821 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2009 Uckfield, East Sussex Posts: 3362 Citroen saxo 1.4 furio

    #13 28th November 2010, 14:27

    Following that point, i have a nice set of 247mm calipers with brand new disks and pads for sale
14. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #14 28th November 2010, 14:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dannygti i dont think you will have any problems with either so long as you use good quality pads and discs... 266's with brembo discs and carbonne lorraine pads would do the trick.

    id love a set of c/l pads but they are £150 cheapest i could find from kamracing. after munching through ds2500s in 2 trackdays and the omp (£63pair) r&s pads last about 5. i dont want to pay £150 as a gamble.
15. DannyVTS Established Member Joined: Apr 2010 Pontefract Posts: 2177

    #15 28th November 2010, 14:55

    283's are over 50% heavier than the standard 247's :|
16. yr51ocw Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 751

    #16 28th November 2010, 15:00

    stu - I have some CL pads in my 4 pots and they have lasted over 5 trackdays now. Im surprised you have gone through them so quickly.
    
    The ideal solution (or should I say best compromise) is a larger disk, and a light caliper, you will increase rotational mass, but loose overall unsprung mass.
    
    al la:
    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=346531
    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=347573
17. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #17 28th November 2010, 15:00

    cough 4 pots cough!
18. yr51ocw Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 751

    #18 28th November 2010, 15:00

    great minds danny
19. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #19 28th November 2010, 16:59

    I've not heard of any customer go through CL Brakes pads in 1 or 2 trackdays. Usually the pads outlast a few sets of discs. I have lots of customers using them in competition including one in saxmax and two sets did them the whole season.
    
    For ultimate unsprung weight it has to be 4 pot calipers. I'm going to use a set on my racecar with standard size discs to be ultra light I'm even tempted to downgrade to solid discs as the car will be much lighter than standard..
20. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #20 28th November 2010, 17:08

    hispec 266mm 4 pots = pure win! had them with ds2500 pads stupidly great them. Saying that running standard bendix 247mm vented off a s1 rallye with oe disc beam seems fine atm at most I will go is ds2500 pads all round with brembo discs
21. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #21 28th November 2010, 18:12

    After having both setups, I would say there's little difference between them in terms of pedal travel, and the perceived amount of stopping force you have when you hit the pedal.
    
    I would go for 266s purely because good quality discs and pads will be cheaper. In theory, you're less likely to warp discs with the 283s due to the larger surface area, but I don't think you'll have any issues if you use some decent discs, i.e. Brembo Max. If you're thinking of using hardcore/ ceramic (or similar) pads, it should be a little easier to get them up to temp with the 266s.
    
    As for the weight of the 283mm setup affecting handling, I can safely say I've not noticed any negative effects. You end up saving weight when fitting an aftermarket exhaust manifold etc, so swings and roundabouts imo.
    
    If you decide to go for 266s, try and get the earlier Lucas ones (the carriers look slightly different - they have a pointy bit in the centre) as discs and pads are much cheaper.
22. user_39821 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2009 Uckfield, East Sussex Posts: 3362 Citroen saxo 1.4 furio

    #22 28th November 2010, 18:21

    You will dissipate heat quicker with a larger surface area and the kinetic energy that is being converted into heat energy with be distributed over a larger area, so less likely to warp the discs.
    I have 266mm with pagid pads. They are awesome once warm, the pedal does travel a little. But as said, you soon get used to it. I will get a larger master cylinder in the long run.
23. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #23 28th November 2010, 18:34

    If you adjust the 'brake bar' on the bulkhead, you can get the pedal feel back to how it was with your original brake setup.
24. user_39821 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2009 Uckfield, East Sussex Posts: 3362 Citroen saxo 1.4 furio

    #24 28th November 2010, 18:35

    The travel will be the same, but it will still be heavier. All depends on taste. I will probably have a little experiment
25. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #25 28th November 2010, 18:39

    My 283s have a good solid pedal with a standard VTS master cylinder - just as good, if not better than the 247mm setup. Just takes a bit of trial and error when adjusting.
    
    I only adjusted the brake bar on mine quite recently. The stopping force was there before, but they are a bit more confidence inspiring now as the brakes seem to bite and scrub off speed a lot quicker.
26. Aly Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2007 Sunderland Posts: 10341

    #26 28th November 2010, 22:58

    Thanks for responses!
    Liam to the warped disc point I had 247 on the GTI with Mintex 1144, used to abuse them and they never warped, I always use my brakes properly.
    
    Think I'm gonna get some 266's (try to get some in good condition)
27. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #27 29th November 2010, 10:26

    most disc warping is actually pad material on the disc surface, usually from getting the pads to overheat. First port of call should be a change of pad material.
28. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #28 29th November 2010, 17:55

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yr51ocw stu - I have some CL pads in my 4 pots and they have lasted over 5 trackdays now. Im surprised you have gone through them so quickly. The ideal solution (or should I say best compromise) is a larger disk, and a light caliper, you will increase rotational mass, but loose overall unsprung mass. al la: http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=346531 http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=347573

    i must be hard on the brakes??
    
    i have my heart set on hispec 285 setup
29. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #29 29th November 2010, 19:38

    I run 283 brembo 4-pots. My only complaint would be the unsprung weight (about the same as the standard vts setup - discs are heavier (a lot) but the 4-pot calipers are lighter (a lot) so it balances it out a bit. Ideally I'll get some rotors and hubs rather than solid discs for next year, with a likely change to hi-spec or tarox calipers. But then I'm frequently braking hard from 150mph so the extra disc surface helps dissipate the heat. For normal spirited driving, Id say go for a good pad disc combo, on 266's - it's all you need
30. yr51ocw Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 751

    #30 30th November 2010, 07:22

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sexy_gt i must be hard on the brakes??

    Depends, how quickly are you getting through disks?
31. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #31 30th November 2010, 18:08

    new set every 2nd set of pads