Standalone ecu fitting + engine looms

30th November 2010, 17:50

Ive just found a thread on the suggestions section about electrics. People said about it being in here which would be the best place, I thought id make a start on one.

Anyway today i was thinking of putting up a thread about fitting standalone ecu and loom. What would be taken away from the original loom? Would the main plug above the gearbox be removed? Which colour wires are for which sensors (if all ecu looms are the same in this way)? There are alot more questions i would like to think off though and hopefully some people could give some good advice on this.

This is something i was thinking about taking to garage when i get all the parts but would like to tackle alot more of the car myself and im sure alot of others would but just confidence with the big things gets in my way

30th November 2010, 19:04

fitting a standalone engine management system isnt mega hard IF you have a half decent knowledge of electrics, most looms are wired up very differently (mainly because of diff engines and setups... and the sensors they do/dont require), as are the "plugs" or input/output terminals on the management itself, you should get a pin out diagram (or be able to get one from the manufacturer) with any ecu you buy, getting one from your car manufacturer is a diff story though, this isnt a major problem as its fairly easy... but time cosuming to strip, and go round your loom with a multi-meter and working out which wires control which sensors, its not something that should be tackled by anyone, as it could easily be fucked up, which could even more easliy result in a big fire, fucking your engine, or at very least frying your nice new standalone, something thats worth thinking about and researching ALOT before even thinking of taking on work like this

as for fitting/mating looms, youll probs find its 50/50 between ppl who modify/mate their OE loom to the new ecu, and ppl who fabricate a new loom to run their engine on the new ecu, it also depends what the OE loom is like to begin with, imo its alot easier to fault find on a new loom, but others may strongly dis-agree with that(saxo looms arent that bad to start with so mating to OE wouldnt be too bad), i started to research alot into this when i was gonna build my own mega-squirt, but with a baby on the way ive decided it is more work then i have time to spare, hence going predator,

9th December 2010, 09:22

Heres speclist/functions of the omex 600 + dta s40 as they are the most common ecus that are being used. Ive just copied and pasted the infomation off the manufacters website so not false infomation is given.

If anyone could think of any others i could do same for just for others to have a read up on them when deciding on which ecu to go for.

OMEX 600 SPEC-

Semi-sequential fuel injection for up to 4 cylinder engines

Distributorless or distributor ignition for up to 4 cylinders

Programmable load and speed sites

TPS or MAP can be used for main load sensing

Wide range of crank trigger patterns are suitable (user programmable)

Turbo wastegate control

Turbo anti-lag system

Variable cam control

Launch control

Narrow and wide band lambda support

Push/pull, and single line idle controls in addition to scattered spark control

Knock sensing capability

3 programmable outputs switched on user controlled inputs (eg boost, coolant temp etc)

Security protected calibrations

Full throttle gearchange

Intercooler water spray control

Water injection control

Nitrous ignition retard and fuel enrichment

Two cooling fan controls

Barometric compensation with external sensor

Uses the latest version of the superb MAP2000 Windows programming software

Suitable for normally aspirated or boosted engines

Inbuilt independent fuel and ignition rev limiters

Separate Tachometer, Shift Light and Fuel Pump outputs

Magnetic or Hall Effect crank and cam sensors

Automatic interpolation between mapped sites

Sophisticated acceleration fuelling setup

Various harness options from economical semi-assembled to full race quality bespoke looms

Battery voltage compensation table for fuel injectors (not just a simple number)

Battery compensation and engine speed compensation for coil charge time

Mappable coolant temperature compensation for engine warm-up

Air & coolant temperature compensation for fuel injection pulse width

Separate cold cranking and decay tables in addition to warm-up fuelling

User settable ignition trim based on air temperature, coolant temperature, and barometric pressure

Separate start advance for cranking provides easy starting for high compression engines

Deceleration fuel cut-off feature for road engines

Maximum recommended engine speed 12,750 RPM

DTA S40 PRO SPEC-

Engine Configuration

20,000 rpm capability
Flexible and easily adapted to different OEM, crank, cam sensor arrangements.
Genuine four and two stroke support.
Twin injector engines.
Semi - sequential injection.
wasted spark or distributor.
User controlled fan activation.
Sensors can be calibrated individually with a lot of preset options supplied.
Flexible Tacho Output
soft and hard rev limits

Main Fuel and Ignition Functions

Comprehensive start up fuelling options both time and temperature dependant.
Air, coolant and manifold pressure compensation maps.
Throttle transient increase compensation.
Throttle transient reduction compensation.
RPM and load breakpoints can be calibrated by the user.
Throttle or MAP as load.
All maps with one or two dimensional with interpolation as required.

Lambda control functions

Extensive lambda parameters table to ensure stable closed loop operation and emissions requirements can be met where needed.
Full three dimensional lambda target map.
Auto-tuning function.

Turbo Control Functions

Open or closed loop turbo pressure control via PWM valve.
Modify target turbo pressure by gear selected.
Modify target turbo pressure by vehicle speed.
Two control maps selected by switch on dashboard.
Active base PWM map for easy calibration.

Idle Control Functions

Open or closed loop idle speed control via PWM valve.
Closed loop idle target speed temperature dependant.
Active base PWM map for easy calibration.
Fuel enrichment table calibrated versus PWM percentage.

Flexible Input/Output

Three uncommitted input tables which use 0 5 volt inputs or any input the S60 knows already, linked to fuel and advance modifiers and a PWM output.

Launch Control

Fully flexible first gear launch capability.
Extensively tunable to individual vehicles.

Full Throttle Gear Shift Cut

Shift cut capability with 1ms resolution, variable for each gear with
full switch de-bounce capability.

Voltage Compensation Tables

User configurable voltage compensation tables for injector dead time
and coil on time (dwell time).

Diagnostics and Test Features.

Full sensor diagnostics and fault recording.
Extensive engine run time recording at different load and speed conditions.
Ability to exercise injectors and coils without engine running for fault finding.

Other Features

Sealed Latching Connectors

Size 115 x 100 x 41 mm

Weight 268 gm

All outputs protected against over temperature and over current

Inputs protected against severe wiring mistakes and accidents

Reverse battery protection

Alternator load dump protection

Input and Output Features

Inputs

Crank Shaft (Magnetic Only)

Throttle Position

Coolant Temperature

Air Temperature

Manifold / Barometric Pressure

Lambda

Oil Pressure

Fuel Pressure

Oil Temperature

Battery Volts

3 x User Defined Analogue (Shared Use)

Launch Switch

Shift Cut

Undriven Wheel Speed

Outputs

2 x Coil Drivers

2 x Injector Drivers

Tacho

Fuel Pump Relay

Fan/Aux 2/Turbo Pressure Valve (Shared Use)

Idle Valve (Shared Second Injector Driver)

Shift Light

9th December 2010, 12:42

just wondeirng, why not just keep the standard loom?

9th December 2010, 15:12

Most looms are spliced with the original. My Omex is half Omex/half OE with the wires not need removed.

9th December 2010, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin

Most looms are spliced with the original. My Omex is half Omex/half OE with the wires not need removed.

What do you think to your omex colin?

9th December 2010, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

What do you think to your omex colin?

Awesome. Very flexible. When mapped it transformed my car over the standard ECU. It can do so much that ill never probably use however!

Only bad thing is, on standard inlet, it doesnt control the standard idle circuit (ICV) and warmup procedure. So when coming down the revs from about 4k its really really jerky. Obvs this wont happen on bodies.

But I wouldnt have another system tbh.

9th December 2010, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin

Awesome. Very flexible. When mapped it transformed my car over the standard ECU. It can do so much that ill never probably use however!

Only bad thing is, on standard inlet, it doesnt control the standard idle circuit (ICV) and warmup procedure. So when coming down the revs from about 4k its really really jerky. Obvs this wont happen on bodies.

But I wouldnt have another system tbh.

Well the omex is one i feel id go for over the others from what ive heard about them and theyre easy to map? but the likes of sandy use DTA, i dont know much about the emerald though.

Dta and omex seems to have fairly similar features like full throttle shift, launch control.

I asked the guy who rebuilt my gearbox today about prices of fitting, mapping, etc and he said it would take a full day so around £200 mark. Id look at northampton motorsport for mapping as its near where relatives live so i could go down there while im at it as heard very good stuff about them.

9th December 2010, 17:50

why not consider emerald? its what i run had no problems at all, quite a lot use them as well as the omex. pug1off tend to fit the emeralds

what kind of price are you looking at for the omex? and then you would need your loom chopping to fit the 3 plug, well assuming you are, as you have asked about custom looms

9th December 2010, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

why not consider emerald? its what i run had no problems at all, quite a lot use them as well as the omex. pug1off tend to fit the emeralds

what kind of price are you looking at for the omex? and then you would need your loom chopping to fit the 3 plug, well assuming you are, as you have asked about custom looms

Well the omex, dta, emerald are all same price really.

Well if im going standalone it wouldnt really matter about being 3plug as all the sensors will be going to the new ecu and i know the omex has got feature for the fan so unlike going 3plug to single plug standard ecu where single plug ecu doesnt control as much as 3plug like fan, fuel pump the standalone would control all these. Am i right?

9th December 2010, 18:28

well you would need your loom hardwired to fit the omex, as it is 3 plug at the end. Yes the ecu would control them all, but im saying as its not plug in and play you would need your loom chopped.

pug1off chopped mine for emerald. cant decide what to do with my car though now, if you are after a stand alone ecu and loom for a 3 plug, i maybe able to help you out

9th December 2010, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

well you would need your loom hardwired to fit the omex, as it is 3 plug at the end. Yes the ecu would control them all, but im saying as its not plug in and play you would need your loom chopped.

pug1off chopped mine for emerald. cant decide what to do with my car though now, if you are after a stand alone ecu and loom for a 3 plug, i maybe able to help you out

I thought you was selling it all with the cams and bodies?

Well i know it would need matching upto the standard engine loom with that being chopped too getting rid of un'needed wiring to sensors.

9th December 2010, 22:26

i dont know what im doing in all fairness lol but if i got a good offer id consider it

10th December 2010, 11:43

NMS like omex to map than emerald ecu so if your planning there then omex would be better option for them to map.

10th December 2010, 11:45

Nothing against emerald ecu but NMS are a omex deal too so they like them over others, always best to go with the management the mapper like best, as it will save on mapping rime if they know that system better, but NMS will map most ecu but like most companies they have there more prefered ecu

10th December 2010, 12:16

NMS mapped my emerald ecu, sure toads was done there and on emerald, done a good job with both. had no problems with mine and believe it was a set price for remap when i got it done

10th December 2010, 12:26

Yer not saying they will not map it, but they preferred the omex ecu than the emerald ecu that all, but if you read my posted they will map most but they PREFER omex ecu for mapping.

Just that pug1off use emerald and NMS for mapping.

NMS mapped my car on a MS software predator, but talking to them they like omex ecu over the rest that all and if he going direct they will mostly like to work with omex ecu than others as the are a omex dealer too.

That what I was saying it the person going to map the engine like one ecu over other then best option would be to go with that.

Emerald, omex etc are really all the same for what a Saxo engine needs.

Also TDF like omex over others, but will map others, but they have there own ecu with matt the owner own software designed by him, but alot of features on these ecu are not used much for Saco engine when going n/a.

10th December 2010, 13:25

Ive got DTA S40 with a loom made up of an O/E loom and made to fit, ive had a few problems though. If i was to do it again id go to GR for everything, think he can do DTA S40, brand new custom loom and mapping for less than 800, probably a lot less thats just a safe figure lol

4th January 2011, 11:39

Looking at getting ecu in a few months maybe, just would like to get some more knowledge about looms.

What is left on the OE loom and whats choped off (not needed)?

What does the new loom go to (to suit standalone)?

How do you go about hardwiring them together?

5th January 2011, 15:37

Its like in 2 parts.

The Standalone loom would drive the injectors, crank sensor, lambda, coilpack, TPS, air temp, ecu temp etc and the rest of the loom i.e reverse lighting switch, oil temp / gauge (vts dials) speedo etc would be the OE half of the loom.

Then its spliced together and thats where I draw the line at helping as I have no idea how its joined

5th January 2011, 17:13

I think sandy or someone with similar knowledge would be best to give some input into this.

15th January 2011, 16:34

Here a Pm i received from sandy about looms after see'ing this section, maybe some help to other so thought i'd post it up.

Recommended route is stripping the OE loom back to essentials and tidying up, used with an all new ECU loom. I charge £350 for both as an entirely plug and play arrangement for all major ECUs; which by the time you've been all around the houses with it, added the special TPS, CPS etc plugs, all the stuff I do as standard, (and read about the troubles other people have had) you'll see what great value that is!

I don't reccommend splicing the new ECU onto the original loom complete, because the original ECU wires are cheaply made and likely to be tired. The configuration of the relay can be simplified greatly, which makes for more reliable operation and easier trouble shooting, should you ever need to.

But I'm really busy currently and in no way wanting to sell you that! But I'm a bit reluctant to give away all the wiring data it's taken me alot of work to collect, I hope you understand.
Basically you need to identify the Switched ignition, Tacho feed, fuel pump power, to splice to the new ECU loom and create your own basic relay set up with conventional switching relays (one for ECU, one for fuel pump). You can't effectively operate the 3-plug style water temp gauge easily, so an aftermarket water temp gauge is easiest and generally a good more accurate addition anyway.

18th January 2011, 16:51

Ive got the DTA S40 with a loom made up by Sandy and its about the neatest thing youl see top quality conectors really nice bit of kit!!

18th January 2011, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamibluebaby

Ive got the DTA S40 with a loom made up by Sandy and its about the neatest thing youl see top quality conectors really nice bit of kit!!

How much work is needed to fit a sandy loom? Whats left to wire up?

Just deciding on looms at the moment cor my car to go with omex 600.

18th January 2011, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

How much work is needed to fit a sandy loom? Whats left to wire up?

Just deciding on looms at the moment cor my car to go with omex 600.

nothing plug and play!

20th January 2011, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamibluebaby

nothing plug and play!

How does the ecu connect upto the clocks then? Would i need to go and buy the omex loom and would just the basic one with no plugs/tails on be the right one. Just looking for best/cheapest option as no point me spending £325 on a omex loom when still got a bit of work to do when could get a £75 and send to sandy and thats it just fitting it.

21st January 2011, 06:51

With my looms you only send me the engine loom out of your car (or an exact replacement one), which I strip back to the starter/alternator/gauges basic functions and bin all the ECU wiring, leaving an interconnect plug for my ECU loom. I then make the ECU loom entirely from scratch using high quality wire/protection/connectors and finish it with the other interconnect plug that joins the two looms together.
Here are the two sections for DTA S40 in an S1 106 Rallye:

ECU loom:

Reduced and tidied engine loom:

I don't need any pin out looms or anything from OMEX and because it's custom made, ECU and sensor locations can be specified, different connectors used etc; so there is no further wiring required, you literally plug it in and use it, including shift light.

21st January 2011, 08:07

So would we need to specify which ecu we will be using for you to put the correct plug on for omex,dta,etc?

That is a good price considering a basic omex loom is £270 then youve got the standard loom to mess about with too but would then not end up with a good finish on the oem loom. When would you be able to do the work as know you said you was going to be busy?

Also with the big plug that connects to interior loom in the bay, is there anyway of getting rid of that or putting it inside the car? Just i want it to look minimalistic as i can.

Looking at putting battery in the boot too.

21st January 2011, 11:40

if your looking for the easiest and cheapest option why dont you jus get in on the pred groug buy at 470, then find a single plug crossover loom, all plug and play

21st January 2011, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

if your looking for the easiest and cheapest option why dont you jus get in on the pred groug buy at 470, then find a single plug crossover loom, all plug and play

I want the ecu in the car, i was thinking about the pred but the hassle of doing single plug loom conversion seems a big pain like jim bob had. i want a tidy bay too getting rid of the fusebox, etc.

22nd January 2011, 07:05

Yes, the ECU needs to be specified, they virtually all have different plugs and configuration. Currently it's a case of if I can fit it in I will, I can probably do 2 or 3 before the end of March maximum, with everything else I'm committed to.

Moving the wing plug connection will pretty much mean re-wiring the engine bay. To be avoided unless you really like making work for yourself!!

27th January 2011, 16:44

GR Performance in Swinton do custom looms, there prices are usually best around and I dont think theyve ever had a complaint about anything theyve done. Done looms for all sorts of cars and they use top quality components.

28th January 2011, 15:31

around 11-14 wires need to moved to do a dta --your choice should depend on your mapper choice and functions you wish to use and if its boosted or n/a ,all ecu mentioned do a good job when fitted +set-up correctly ,but they all do things slightly differently ,so depending what you are doing and functions you want to use
one type might be slightly better than another + work out cheaper

28th January 2011, 15:42

Well im going to be using a omex 600 as at speed have a group buy. Seems a very good ecu too.

Just unsure on the loom now, which to go for, etc.

28th January 2011, 21:44

if it is a PURE track car and no frills then mount ecu inside car and make a custom loom ,cos you will be dumping most of the other parts of the std wirirng loom anyway

29th January 2011, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

if it is a PURE track car and no frills then mount ecu inside car and make a custom loom ,cos you will be dumping most of the other parts of the std wirirng loom anyway

Well the car is going to be just a toy and i plan on running the ecu inside the car. Thinking of maybe getting a sandy brown loom as its all just plug and play.

1st February 2011, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Well the car is going to be just a toy and i plan on running the ecu inside the car. Thinking of maybe getting a sandy brown loom as its all just plug and play.

Whereever you get a loom made it will be plug and play

1st February 2011, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle

Whereever you get a loom made it will be plug and play

Well sandy ones are the only ones i know of being plug and play and are probably the best. Like the omex loom is still incomplete loom and thats just the ecu loom rather than the oem too.

1st February 2011, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Well sandy ones are the only ones i know of being plug and play and are probably the best. Like the omex loom is still incomplete loom and thats just the ecu loom rather than the oem too.

Ye because the omex loom is not a custom loom for your car.

IMHO GR looms are better.

1st February 2011, 09:43

BTW thats not a dig at his work its just my personal opinion.

1st February 2011, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle

Ye because the omex loom is not a custom loom for your car.

As for sandy ones bieng the best, im probably gunna get my head bitten off here but i bought a second hand sandy loom and it looked the business but ive had a few problems with it, had to have it altered and bits replaced by GR, all in all i wish i had got a GR loom in the first place.

Was it for the correct engine though? As the mk1 and mk2 vts have different sensors, fan connections, etc. As im sure if sandy built it, it would be for the car it was built for rather than some other saxo.

How much are GR looms? Would it be for both looms?

1st February 2011, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Was it for the correct engine though? As the mk1 and mk2 vts have different sensors, fan connections, etc. As im sure if sandy built it, it would be for the car it was built for rather than some other saxo.

How much are GR looms? Would it be for both looms?

Not a saxo mate a 106. I know that and GR changed what needed changing to make it fit. Dont really wanna get into it in detail though on a public forum as its not fair on sandy who probably is very good at what he does judging from what ive heard, might was possibly just a bad one or been damaged when removed from the old car who knows.

I dont know mate you would have to give Gaz a ring, he prices them individually as he makes looms for any car you ask him. IIRC it would have been circa £250 for a dta loom for mine but dont quote me on that.

What do you mean both looms?

1st February 2011, 14:00

I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know what loom it was, who it was bought from and what car you were trying to use it in? It's certainly the first I've heard of this, nobody tried to contact me about a problem?

1st February 2011, 14:27

tbh i cant remember the particulars it was about a year ago. I bought it off a lad with a 106 1.6 xs, its gone in my rallye. I never tried to contact you about it because it was easier just to get it sorted by Gaz.

Like i said not trying to rip you apart but excluding the bits that we changed, Gaz has replaced wires to crank sensor, coil pack and had to run a new earth to map sensor.

1st February 2011, 14:35

I'm thinking about getting a Standalone for my new engine.

Are there any that are "Plug and Play" or do you have to wire them all in?

1st February 2011, 14:37

only real plug in and play standalone is pred, but thts one for single plug engines.

1st February 2011, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark1311

only real plug in and play standalone is pred, but thts one for single plug engines.

Woo!!

Lucky I decided to buy a Single plug engine lol I almost bought a 3 plug lol.

Thanks

1st February 2011, 14:45

send luthor1 on here a pm about pred mate, he makes it ect best man to speak to about pred, good ecu simo has it on his turbo and lots of other members have it.

1st February 2011, 14:47

I will do, thanks.

1st February 2011, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle

tbh i cant remember the particulars it was about a year ago. I bought it off a lad with a 106 1.6 xs, its gone in my rallye. I never tried to contact you about it because it was easier just to get it sorted by Gaz.

Like i said not trying to rip you apart but excluding the bits that we changed, Gaz has replaced wires to crank sensor, coil pack and had to run a new earth to map sensor.

I'm sorry, but I would like to know more if there has been a problem, but it sounds really vague and odd?!! Was it a DTA conversion or standard 16v into 8v, from what you're saying I don't even know if it was one of my looms, it wouldn't be the first time someone's passed off something else as one of mine. Any proper details, pictures etc would be appreciated, because I take problems extremely seriously and would like to know exactly what had gone wrong and if it was down to something I had done; or someone else trying to pass off an inferior loom as one of mine, or indeed someone trying to rubbish my work to sell their own.

1st February 2011, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy309

I'm sorry, but I would like to know more if there has been a problem, but it sounds really vague and odd?!! Was it a DTA conversion or standard 16v into 8v, from what you're saying I don't even know if it was one of my looms, it wouldn't be the first time someone's passed off something else as one of mine. Any proper details, pictures etc would be appreciated, because I take problems extremely seriously and would like to know exactly what had gone wrong and if it was down to something I had done; or someone else trying to pass off an inferior loom as one of mine, or indeed someone trying to rubbish my work to sell their own.

It was a DTA loom for a 1.6 8v. I cant get pictures because its on the car. I understand where you are coming from and i can see i wasnt mega clear with what i was posting earlier but im tired today lol.

You might be right i might have just been lied to about it bieng one of your looms.

Who would be trying to rubbish your work to sell there own? I dont make or sell looms myself.

I can see where this is going so what im going to do is delete my posts and just say that in my personal opinion GR looms are better quality. Unfortunately like you said it might no even be one of your looms but i got told it was and thats all ive got to base my opinion on.

1st February 2011, 19:10

That worries me greatly. I've been back through my notes and the only 1.6 XSI DTA loom I have done, as far as i can see, was James106XSI's E48 loom. I bought that car from him in 2010 and replaced that loom with a newer S40 one and destroyed the E48 loom, so I can't see that that was one of my looms. Furthermore, you mentioned the MAP sensor; I starting adding MAP as standard a few months back (for Baro correction option), but previously to that, the only looms that would have had MAP would have been the single inlet ones and I can list those that are more than a year old:

Dunc JP4 loom (still in use on the original car AFAIK)
Lee Madison J4 loom (still in use on the original car)

I don't know where this is going, but hopefully you can see why I'm a bit upset about this; it looks very much like my work is being slated on the basis of a loom I most likely didn't make or possibly one I did make, that was altered beyond my care. If you have any information about where you bought it from, any pictures of it, any information that might give me some idea, then I'd be very grateful. I'm also intruged about what the problem was that needed to be solved?

1st February 2011, 20:18

After asking around I think I've got to the bottom of this! It looks like you (Jungle) bought Neil Flint's XSi loom, that I did make. It was one of my early ones, that used standard wiring re-configured for the ECU, probably one of the last I did like that before I decided to go over to all new only wiring for the ECU, for the reasons detailed earlier in this thread. I'm sure of that, because Nick Charles' race car (in my Avatar) was done soon after and all new. The loom worked fine on Neil's car as I recall and I can remember were I was stood when I helped them get the TPS connected and get it running over the phone (Neil and "Semtex"), once it was running Semtex remarked that it ran better on my base map than his mapped engine, one of those remarks that stays with me!

Whatever the problems you had were, I would still be interested to know and I'm very sure I never fitted a MAP sensor connection on it. Certainly that style of "reconfigured" ECU loom is emphatically not representative of the type I produce now. A quick look at the pictures I attached earlier on this thread will clarify that.

4th February 2011, 11:25

If i wanted to build my own loom using a basic omex loom then adding plugs and tails onto it, where could i get all the fittings from?

Like the sandy loom with the big main plug by fusebox and all the plug and tails that fit onto the sensors? What would be used to cover the loom?

5th February 2011, 07:17

I get most of my stuff from www.polevolt.co.uk superb range, the right quality and excellent knowledge.

There are four main ways to cover the loom, easiest is tape, but it looks pretty gash on it's own. Convoluted tube is simple, tough and has excellent abrasion resistance, so good for the parts that run over castings. Fibre mesh is popular, but I don't like it because if any fluids get into it, it becomes very messy and horrible to handle; also doesn't support the wires very well at all.
Best of all IMO is heatshrink; supports the wires well, with twisted wires remains flexible and is dead easy to wipe clean if need be. 2-1 heat shrink (that's the maximum reduction in diameter) is pretty cheap and works well on leads that don't have the plug fitted yet, so good for scratch loom making. Higher ratios and adhesive lined get much more expensive, but can be used to reduce diameter and over plugs etc. It's common for heatshrink to be used to seal plugs, meaning the cheaper unsealed "JT" plugs can be used, but I favour the slightly more expensive option of "JPT" plugs that have seals and a rubber boot; they can be easily accessed/dismantled when fault finding or re-configuring the pins for sensor changes etc.
Wire wise, ordinary automotive wire, as sold by most motor factors etc, is pretty low quality and will corrode easily. Decent thinwall wire is the minimum standard really, Raychem wire as used in most manufacturer supplied aftermarket looms is considerably more expensive to buy in small quantities and in my humble opinion usually used in too small a size (to reduce cost), which can lead to "ghost" ECU and map problems/quirks that can often be cured with slightly larger convetional thinwall wire. I use Raychem 55 for the crank cable, because at the price it's the most reliable and tough screened signal wire that I've found, conventional 2 plus screen cable is usually good enough, but trying to cure signal interference problems once the loom has been installed can be misery, so it's good insurance.

Another tip that I'm probably going to get flamed by "experts" for, is to solder tip the wires. If you study loom making you will be told that soldering the terminals leads to work breakage. If the wire is inadequately supported and the solder allowed to wick down the wire too far, then that can be a problem, it makes the joint brittle. But if you solder only the tip and use the correct seals in the plugs to support the wire (so the soldered section never gets bent), then it provides far superior contact area between the wire and terminal and protects from corrosion; another cause of "ghost" problems. It takes much longer to do it this way, but if you want to make a loom that will remain reliable for years, it's a big head start.

5th February 2011, 09:25

Could you list the parts you use on your loom sandy? As can see relays, etc on yours too.

Its just i wouldnt mind doing a loom myself but whether i have the knowledge, etc to do it. If i was to buy the basic omex loom (£75 off ebay) with no plugs or tails, where could i get these from?

5th February 2011, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Could you list the parts you use on your loom sandy? As can see relays, etc on yours too.

Its just i wouldnt mind doing a loom myself but whether i have the knowledge, etc to do it. If i was to buy the basic omex loom (£75 off ebay) with no plugs or tails, where could i get these from?

It'll just be wire, heatshrink, plugs to suit the sensors you plan on connecting to the Ecu, then relays.

As sandy said above, use a high quality wire, good wore for cps, then you just need to sort wire lengths out, heatshrink and wire plugs up correctly.

IMO for the sake of a 200 pound or so I'd get Sandy to make the loom over getting a 'generic' omex loom.

You'll soon spend £200 on mapping if you have a problem with how you wired up the loom, or cps signal problems! Plus the longevity and reliability of the loom. Having spent hours in the past on peoples cars trying to find electricity problems, id pay an extra £200 to not stand in the cold/rain trying to fault find!

BUT if I had a unusual engine/sensor setup etc + genuinely wanted to learn about electronics etc. then I'd do it myself.

7th February 2011, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

It'll just be wire, heatshrink, plugs to suit the sensors you plan on connecting to the Ecu, then relays.

As sandy said above, use a high quality wire, good wore for cps, then you just need to sort wire lengths out, heatshrink and wire plugs up correctly.

IMO for the sake of a 200 pound or so I'd get Sandy to make the loom over getting a 'generic' omex loom.

You'll soon spend £200 on mapping if you have a problem with how you wired up the loom, or cps signal problems! Plus the longevity and reliability of the loom. Having spent hours in the past on peoples cars trying to find electricity problems, id pay an extra £200 to not stand in the cold/rain trying to fault find!

BUT if I had a unusual engine/sensor setup etc + genuinely wanted to learn about electronics etc. then I'd do it myself.

I would most likely go for a sandy loom but its a fair amount of money, nearly as much as the ecu. Just i fancy building my own for the satisfaction that ive built that and learning along the way but i would have a clue where to start, etc.

8th February 2011, 07:07

It's not rocket science and if you're fairly handy and methodical, it shouldn't be too hard to do. It is mostly labour and by doing it yourself you'll learn alot; making one for my own car is exactly how I started doing them. Having some idea of what materials to use and a good source is half the battle really, which hopefully I've given you.

8th February 2011, 08:06

You have given me alot more knowledge about it all nkw thanks. The hardestt bit i can think of is knowing which wires for which on say the basic omex loom with no plug or tails as theyre all just different colours and im guessing you couldnt just put any plug/tails for which ever sensors its going to on any wire?

When would you be able to start doing your looms when your not too busy if i do decide to get one from you over making my own?

8th February 2011, 08:13

http://omextechnology.com/600%20055.pdf Page 54. On two pin plugs, pin1 is typically positive, 3 pin plugs vary according to sensor used.

About 3-4 weeks currently, race engine prep currently takes priority I'm afraid!

8th February 2011, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy309

http://omextechnology.com/600%20055.pdf Page 54. On two pin plugs, pin1 is typically positive, 3 pin plugs vary according to sensor used.

About 3-4 weeks currently, race engine prep currently takes priority I'm afraid!

Well it woulnt be that soon, the loom will be the last thing on the list.

14th February 2011, 23:47

and why not....citroen sport ones??

22nd February 2011, 20:12

my emerald will be off car in the next few weeks by the looks of it, with the 3 plug loom wired to fit, so plug in and play for a 3 plugger

3rd April 2012, 10:04

Really want to make my own loom. Could buy the omex basic loom without anything on it, get the heatshrink (unsure of what size?) and buy the sensors but buy the same as what's on the standard loom then it'd just be making it up.

9th April 2012, 21:09

predator ecu + lc-1.

just waiting more ...
the plug and play ecus are very apelative....easy to install.

19th April 2012, 22:06

i ended buying the mtx-l from innovate..hope goes good whith megasquirt!!!