VTR engines??

  1. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2009 Blaze'nSmoke (Basingstoke) Posts: 292 Saxo VTR
    #1
    I have a W reg VTR, 2000 but the 90Bhp version not the 100Bhp one. Is the only way to get the 100Bhp version to actually swap them out or can I change the loom, ECU etc? I dont know about engines so I won't pretend I do lol

    Cheers
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2006 Maidstone Posts: 8210 Golf TDI
    #2
    You would need to MK2 engine to get the 98bhp it produces
    If you added a straight through exhaust, 4-2-1 manifold, enclosed induction kit, and removed some excess weight you 'could' make close to the extra 8bhp

    Alternatively cam and remap yours

    or if you want to swap engines then go for the VTS
  3. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2009 Blaze'nSmoke (Basingstoke) Posts: 292 Saxo VTR
    #3
    I would love nothing more than for a VTS engine! But insurance
  4. Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2010 Rotherham/Sheffield Posts: 137 Ford Focus Zetec
    #4
    isn't the diffrence something to do with the head and the injectors? dont quote me on it like
  5. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2009 Stranraer Posts: 3437 bodied VTR
    #5
    different type of cam? roller and non-roller i think
  6. Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2010 Edinburgh Posts: 448 Black Vtr
    #6
    Different inlet
  7. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #7
    kam racing claim that their exhaust coupled with a 4-2-1 manifold can make 15bhp on vtrs, and they arent the sort of company to lie lol so you could have yours over 100bhp, also i bet theres no noticeable difference between the two engines mate so please dont fit the mk2 engine for the extra 8bhp
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  8. Established Member Joined: Sep 2009 Peterborough Posts: 1292 Mk1 Saxo VTR, MK1 Saxo VTS, Ford Ka
    #8
    If you were thinking about swapping engines, just get a VTS engine and put that in, then you really will feel the difference!
  9. Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2009 Blaze'nSmoke (Basingstoke) Posts: 292 Saxo VTR
    #9
    Yh, I'll jus stay with what I got till I go VTS. But is insurance better if I have a VTS engine in a VTR or buy a VTS?
  10. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2006 Maidstone Posts: 8210 Golf TDI
    #10
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by superCREG View Post
    Yh, I'll jus stay with what I got till I go VTS. But is insurance better if I have a VTS engine in a VTR or buy a VTS?
    Probably better with a standard VTS

    VTR with a VTS engine may well cost more as its a modification so some insurance companies wont quote and the ones that do may stick the price up
  11. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2010 London Posts: 2768
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by superCREG View Post
    But is insurance better if I have a VTS engine in a VTR or buy a VTS?
    The only way is to get quotes, insurance companies are the only ones that will be able to answer your question.
  12. Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport
    #12
    if the only differences and i mean "if" are the head and inlet etc. could you not just swap the top ends? and a little bit of re-wireing
  13. Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Cupar Fife Posts: 1712 1600 16v VTS 1600 8v VTR 1400 16v Clio Sport
    #13
    anyone confirm this? ^^^^^^^^^^
  14. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #14
    am i rite in saying the 98bhp was never proven.
  15. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2006 Maidstone Posts: 8210 Golf TDI
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bedford126 View Post
    am i rite in saying the 98bhp was never proven.
    What was never proven?
  16. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 Liverpool Posts: 7393 Black Corsa C SRi
    #16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bedford126 View Post
    am i rite in saying the 98bhp was never proven.
    No youre not.
    There's a few differences and enough to make it not worth it, vts it
  17. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #17
    The difference is the head because it has different port spacingsand the ECU.

    If youre going to change engine my advice would be get a 16v but theres no point ruining a perfectly good vtr.

    you're best bet is to have a look at the S2 106 rallye engine, its the same as your vtr but has a different cam and a bigger inlet.

    you should get a 4-2-1 manifold with a decat centre section and any sort of indction kit (so long as it has a cold air feed). You should also get a S2 106 rallye inlet (it has a bigger throttle body and will fit straight on) then if you have some money get a high lift cam (newman PH3 or kat cams are very good)

    With all of these mods you could be looking at 135hp, which would be very good fun. but if you want more have a look at a set of R1 or R6 carbs ;p
  18. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffchiz View Post
    kam racing claim that their exhaust coupled with a 4-2-1 manifold can make 15bhp on vtrs, and they arent the sort of company to lie lol so you could have yours over 100bhp, also i bet theres no noticeable difference between the two engines mate so please dont fit the mk2 engine for the extra 8bhp
    You will get a bigger power gain on a mk2 than a mk1 vtr because of where the cat is in the exhaust. If youre cat is in the manifold then around 15hp is right but if the cats in the mid section then 8-10hp would be max gain.
  19. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeppy24 View Post
    You will get a bigger power gain on a mk2 than a mk1 vtr because of where the cat is in the exhaust. If youre cat is in the manifold then around 15hp is right but if the cats in the mid section then 8-10hp would be max gain.
    shouldn't make any difference which engine you have as if your fitting a 4-2-1 and an exhaust system then the cat is taken out of the question in both cases so where it was originally would be irrelevant... and the s1 106 rallye has the bigger inlet, thats why people fit them you never get people fititng s2 rallye inlets wouldn't be any point, but yea the s2 rallye engine is the vtr engine but better lol but out the two rallye engines id go for the s1 rallye engine, more bhp out the box and its only a 1.3
  20. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #20
    Sorry mate i meant S1 rallye, Someone was talking to me at work. yeh i thought that too but more often that not the gains are high on a mk2 vtr. A friend of mine is doing a nice build on a vtr engine he bought for his 106 quicksilver. Its a mk1 vtr and hes fitting a set of R1 carbs and the will be fun when hes done.
  21. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeppy24 View Post
    Sorry mate i meant S1 rallye, Someone was talking to me at work. yeh i thought that too but more often that not the gains are high on a mk2 vtr. A friend of mine is doing a nice build on a vtr engine he bought for his 106 quicksilver. Its a mk1 vtr and hes fitting a set of R1 carbs and the will be fun when hes done.
    i tried to fit carbs to my vtr engine, but i thought it was a backwards step, so i fitted a 16v vts engine and i wanna go for a set of gsxr throttle bodies about £600 for a full bolt on kit and for a couple hundred more GMC sell a set of bolt on throttle bodies brand new, if i can save the money up id love to have the gsxr bodies, with ph4 cams, pocketed pistons and a predator ecu
  22. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #22
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffchiz View Post
    i tried to fit carbs to my vtr engine, but i thought it was a backwards step, so i fitted a 16v vts engine and i wanna go for a set of gsxr throttle bodies about £600 for a full bolt on kit and for a couple hundred more GMC sell a set of bolt on throttle bodies brand new, if i can save the money up id love to have the gsxr bodies, with ph4 cams, pocketed pistons and a predator ecu
    Sounds like a good plan, bodies are so much easier to live with. My friends carbs need setting up most days!!

    your car looks sweet already so a set of bodies would definately be worth it!
  23. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeppy24 View Post
    Sounds like a good plan, bodies are so much easier to live with. My friends carbs need setting up most days!!

    your car looks sweet already so a set of bodies would definately be worth it!
    yea me and my mate bought a s2 106 with a quicksilver engine with a rallye head, carbs and 4-2-1 with a pugsport we only bought it to rape it for all the parts lol the carbs were horrible my standard 90bhp vtr engine could easily out pull it driving back on the motorways and it was spitting flames from the exhaust every 5 seconds lol also flames coming out the carbs..really wasnt set up right lol it stunk of fuel inside the car my mate felt so ill after the journey home was such a dog lol so i decided against fitting them and i swapped the carbs for an s1 rallye inlet fitted the rallye head and inlet to my car couldnt get it working properly so i yanked the 8v out and dumped my mates 16v in there lol we have had a 106 xsi running on carbs which ran very well and the noise was so addictive...but as you said takes constant setting up
  24. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #24
    Nice! You cant beat the sound from throttle bodies tho. A guy in my local car club has a 106 pug1off gti its at 200hp from bodies and revs to 9500, its a machine!
  25. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeppy24 View Post
    Nice! You cant beat the sound from throttle bodies tho. A guy in my local car club has a 106 pug1off gti its at 200hp from bodies and revs to 9500, its a machine!
    9500revs! thats mental lol bet he had quite a bit of headwork to make that reliable that high in the revs lol
  26. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #26
    Yeh he had it built special by pug1off, its all fully forged but very expensive!
  27. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0
    #27
    I thought the only difference between MK1 and MK2 VTR's was the mapping?

    I thought after you fit 4-2-1 Manifold and a Straight through System, so getting rid of that damn Cat. You'd gain enough to match the MK2? When you say the difference is in the head are you talking MK1 Black Top or MK1 Silver Top? Because I have a MK1 Single Plug Silver Top and a MK2 Single Plug and they look the same? Even the Inlets are the same lol. Someone told me the Single plugs are 90hp and 3 Plug are 98hp and the only difference is mapping. I wish I could really find out for sure I always get told difference answers I don't think anyone really knows lol.
  28. L-plater Joined: Apr 2010 oxford Posts: 82 black mk2 saxo vtr
    #28
    Yeh thats probably the easiest way to know, the single plug are 90hp and the 3 plug are 98hp.