How easy is it to make a vtr faster than a vts?

14th January 2011, 10:07

With simple breathing mods, a nice cam and remap, what sort of gains would this see? Without boost or bodies what would ideally be needed to get a vtr to a vts pace or faster?

14th January 2011, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSOfreak

With simple breathing mods, a nice cam and remap, what sort of gains would this see? Without boost or bodies what would ideally be needed to get a vtr to a vts pace or faster?

Pushing it off a cliff probably. I can't see breathing mods and a lairy cam making up 30-40bhp to spank a VTS.

Standard VTS vs. cam'd map'd strip'd VTR, the VTR would maybe come out on top.

14th January 2011, 10:20

As above, and maybe the use of a vts/1.1 gearbox could help.

14th January 2011, 13:01

exhaust £250
manifold £150
cams £200
remap £300
h/g, bolts, belts, w/pump, plugs, filters, followers etc >£100

thats a grand straight away.. without any labour added

i paid £300 for 16v conversion and fitted it my self in a weekend BOOM lol

14th January 2011, 13:30

well this is the problem i face, i cant do an engine conversion as i cant afford the insurance for it, i dont want to buy a vts becuase my vtr is in mint condition and cant let her go. i already have a green airfilter and decat exhuast. so ive been thinking about camming and remapping, but is that right what gary-vtr says that a cammed vtr wont be as quick as a standard vts?

14th January 2011, 13:56

tbh i would have thought with the addition of a 4-2-1, cams and remap should easily see more than a vts, but also so gotta remember the vts being a 16v it keeps pulling where the 8v drops off but the cam might sort this out

14th January 2011, 14:01

Throttlebodies would see 140bhp with the right engine build.

14th January 2011, 14:03

deep pockets LSO? lol

14th January 2011, 14:16

lol god no

throttle bodies arent for poor people

i mean i can afford a decent cam and someone i know can fit and remap it for a decent price. so it got me thinking, whats the most popular vtr cam to get for a daily runner to match vts speed?

jeffchiz, off topic but are you at oxford uni?

14th January 2011, 14:19

newman ph3 or catcam 708 are the 'best' you can have before t/b's

and im at oxford brookes uni

why?

14th January 2011, 14:24

just lookin at your location...
wouldnt happen to be a motorsport course would it lol?

14th January 2011, 14:45

lol yea it was in my first year, but i couldn't hack it, too hard :'( well i could have probably passed it but it requires a LOT of work, and my heart wasn't in it, i could pass the modules but id hate every second of it lol im now doing city and regional planning, sounds boring but i really like it and actually like going lectures so its all good lol

14th January 2011, 15:17

The used N20 kit that is in the for sale section would do it..

14th January 2011, 15:23

You'd be better off buying a VTS and swapping bits over from your VTR surely?

14th January 2011, 16:14

he has explained why he wants to keep his vtr

14th January 2011, 16:18

Not very.

14th January 2011, 16:26

LOL even if he hasn't he doesn't have to justify to you lot why he wants to keep his vtr engine! lol

14th January 2011, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary-VTR

Pushing it off a cliff probably. I can't see breathing mods and a lairy cam making up 30-40bhp to spank a VTS.

Standard VTS vs. cam'd map'd strip'd VTR, the VTR would maybe come out on top.

The VTS would more than likely come out top end, don't forget about the final drive on the VTR box.

14th January 2011, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

newman ph3 or catcam 708 are the 'best' you can have before t/b's

remind me again how two camshafts will fit in a single cam engine

If you are going to recomend help with the 8v at least dont just give him 16v engine specs...

14th January 2011, 17:16

ok ok so for the money, say i spend 6-700 camming and remapping the vtr engine, with usual breathing mods (decat, manifold airfilter), roughly what sort of bhp figures would i be looking at?

14th January 2011, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSOfreak

ok ok so for the money, say i spend 6-700 camming and remapping the vtr engine, with usual breathing mods (decat, manifold airfilter), roughly what sort of bhp figures would i be looking at?

piece of string.

Depends on how wild the cam you go for mostly. Dont expect big gains though, its rare to see an 8v making more than 120 on a non dodgy set of rollers.

14th January 2011, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

remind me again how two camshafts will fit in a single cam engine

If you are going to recomend help with the 8v at least dont just give him 16v engine specs...

okok im sorry i suggested 708's, im only used to looking at 16v parts lol

nothing wrong with my suggestion of ph3 tho

14th January 2011, 17:23

cat cam 102

14th January 2011, 17:26

ah k cheers, i might just bare with the 8v then, seeing as its not really worth the money

14th January 2011, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSOfreak

ah k cheers, i might just bare with the 8v then, seeing as its not really worth the money

Thats the majority decision.

Just hold on untill VTS time.

Or just do an 's conversion and dont tell insurance.

14th January 2011, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo3fish

Or just do an 's conversion and dont tell insurance.

or not.

14th January 2011, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

or not.

Also an option.

14th January 2011, 19:22

tbh mate your at a loss

getting the 8v to beat or match a vts pace you'd need at least as mentioned full decat with mani, decent cams and a decent remap, youd also need at least to match the vts box as the vtr box is piss poor(and theres still no saying it will match without stripping out etc), if you declare this to your insurance your gonn be paying vts insurance, if you fit a vts lump your already there,

so it just goes on whether your gonna declare stuff, but if your not gonna delcare all your mods you may aswell fit a vts lump and standard parts, will cost less then half and at least you could play dumb and say it was fitted when you bought it

i dont condone this by the way im just stating thees really no point doing it, its a waste of money, i done it (cammed 8v not undeclared mods) and now ive shifted to turbo, wasnt worth the effort

14th January 2011, 19:56

Mate just do

Supersprint 4-2-1 (decat)
Kam racing centre
Kam racing backbox
Bmc CDA with Cold air feed or raceland enclosed
Newmans ph3s
Adjustable pulley
Remap
Vts box
Strip out anything you don't need
Fibreglass bonnet
Fibreglass boot

If it makes say 118bhp and weighs say 840kg then you can't really complain as it will be a quick vtr, maybe not beating vts's but giving them a little fright lol

15th January 2011, 09:31

lol oh how wrong was i to think jus a cam and remap will see vts speed

15th January 2011, 11:14

if its the early silver top or blacktop engine look about for the s1 rallye inlet to get a couple more bhp and some great induction noise

15th January 2011, 18:27

Decent brake's, decent chassis set up then just go play in the twisty's as straight line is for gay's.

The 106 Rallye hold's its own on the back roads

16th January 2011, 02:03

Nitrous for the straights. Torque steer straight past the vts.

16th January 2011, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudandproud205

Decent brake's, decent chassis set up then just go play in the twisty's as straight line is for gay's.

The 106 Rallye hold's its own on the back roads

very true, but unless you live rural its not often you can piss about in the twisties, and in all fairness accleration is the fun of driving for most, inc me haha, thats why ppl upgrade to vts, its not for the braking or suspension........

faster and faster ftw!!

16th January 2011, 03:13

yeah, i do mostly town driving so every road is a straight line lol

16th January 2011, 03:31

i was shown bikes before cars, heart is still in bikes but love cars near enough equal, think its safe to say im an acceleration junkie...... but tbf thas why turbos were created

16th January 2011, 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

very true, but unless you live rural its not often you can piss about in the twisties, and in all fairness accleration is the fun of driving for most, inc me haha, thats why ppl upgrade to vts, its not for the braking or suspension........

faster and faster ftw!!

1.1 box ftw

16th January 2011, 10:30

i would get a 1.1 box, but wouldnt be very efficient as i do 45 miles on the motorway everyday. Would a vts box be just as rev happy at motorway speed?

16th January 2011, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSOfreak

i would get a 1.1 box, but wouldnt be very efficient as i do 45 miles on the motorway everyday. Would a vts box be just as rev happy at motorway speed?

i would imagine so yes. VTR is most efficient as far as i know, as its so god damn long

tbh though, if i drive sensibly i can get a fair whack out of mine

16th January 2011, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciarannn

Mate just do

Supersprint 4-2-1 (decat)
Kam racing centre
Kam racing backbox
Bmc CDA with Cold air feed or raceland enclosed
Newmans ph3s
Adjustable pulley
Remap
Vts box
Strip out anything you don't need
Fibreglass bonnet
Fibreglass boot

If it makes say 118bhp and weighs say 840kg then you can't really complain as it will be a quick vtr, maybe not beating vts's but giving them a little fright lol

Sounds good. I think the main thing is to do is enjoy the car for what it is. You can make it fast but forget setting a target of a better car (which rarely are standard anyway), but you can enjoy a lighter and more balanced car in the first place. Less weight on the front end is a little bonus though its marginal.

6th February 2011, 12:14

If I were you mate I wouldn't go spending £££ on camming and mapping your r engine, you'll only gain an extra few bhp and probably still wouldn't be enough to beat a vts. Waste of money in my opinion!

Simply just put a vts engine in your vtr for half the price of getting the r engine cammed and mapped. Then you've got your 120 bhp.

Then your bolt on mods such as exhaust (decat) and 4-2-1 mani will see you beating standard vts's

Then you can think about cams and a map for the vts engine

Will easily see you to 140bhp IMO

6th February 2011, 12:22

Surley for the cost of modding a VTR to keep up with a VTS you could spend the £300 on the VTS engine and pay the increase in insurance?

6th February 2011, 12:40

Again wouldn't go mad with a 8v so unless you go 16v i would suggest:
Power - exhaust, manifold, induction, decat £200-300
Handling - lowered, strut braces, polybushe's £200-400
Transmission - VTS/GTI/XSI/S1 gearbox, quickshift £100-200
Brakes - 266mm Brakes, Braided hoses, 23mm MC £150-200
= Well rounded Saxo

(Rough estimates on price)

6th February 2011, 13:04

cheapest option to beat a vts. as said nitrous oxide.
wont put your premium up as much as you think.
and can get a full system for around £250
then its just a case of filling when you like.
and a vtr on just 25bhp shot will beat a standard vts
or uprated clutch and a 50 shot you will embarress one.