Important! : Car will not start thread.

19th February 2011, 22:26

Have converted my VTR engine to a lower mileage VTR engine + fully working gearbox. All looms ect are plugged in, however the car will not start, only turn over. I cannot hear the fuel pump priming at all, but the relay is clicking and all fuses are good. Fuel Cut off switch is also fine.

Talked to Tufty, he seemed to think that the ECU has locked itself and the immobiliser has kicked in.
So my next port of call is what? I have the ECU off the car that the replacement VTR Engine came off. So i'm guessing I can use that? I don't want to lock this ECU, as I don't have a back up, so how do I avoid potentially locking this one?

Also, any potential problems using a different ECU with my Toad Alarm?

19th February 2011, 23:10

Any ideas people?

19th February 2011, 23:25

Is the ECU the original one? There is no reason why you would have needed to change that...

Is the orange key light flashing on the dash?

Your toad alarm will probably have it's own immobilizer that should disarm when you unlock your car with the fob.

19th February 2011, 23:31

Is the alarm led changed colour to say the immobiliser has turned off??

19th February 2011, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

Is the ECU the original one? There is no reason why you would have needed to change that...

Is the orange key light flashing on the dash?

Your toad alarm will probably have it's own immobilizer that should disarm when you unlock your car with the fob.

Yes the ECU is the original one that came with the car.
No flashing orange key light on the dash.
And the car is unlocked.... Damn electrics complicating everything lol!

19th February 2011, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by J222JRA

Is the alarm led changed colour to say the immobiliser has turned off??

Would this be on my key fob?

20th February 2011, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

Yes the ECU is the original one that came with the car.

Came with the car?

What do you mean... the one that was on your car to start with or from the car you got the engine from?

20th February 2011, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

Came with the car?

What do you mean... the one that was on your car to start with or from the car you got the engine from?

The ECU I am currently trying to start the car with is the one that has been on the car for it's entire life. (Assuming it has only had this ECU lol)

21st February 2011, 00:17

Right, problem still persists. Have tried changing over the ECU Relay to see if that would make any difference. No luck. Any ideas?
Also, I cannot seem to find my immobiliser box, anyone know the location?

21st February 2011, 16:16

Anyone had a similar problem with the Fuel Pump not priming, but the car is still turning over?

Bump

21st February 2011, 17:00

Don't want to add another bump after 10mins, but I'm getting desperate lol.

21st February 2011, 20:24

ya will have disconnected the battery to get the gearbox out, does the alarm have its own immoblizer built in, and its def not the fuel cut off

21st February 2011, 20:27

Did you unlock your ECU before changing the engine?
Or did you leave it plugged in?

21st February 2011, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Did you unlock your ECU before changing the engine?
Or did you leave it plugged in?

I took the ECU off the engine, took old engine out, new engine in, ECU plugged back in, tired to start, no luck. But no, I did not unlock it, was I supposed to?

21st February 2011, 20:37

Also, how do I determine whether the ECU is locked or not?

21st February 2011, 20:44

take the ECU to an auto sparkie an ask them mate

21st February 2011, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by seddon89

take the ECU to an auto sparkie an ask them mate

Surely there must be some sort of procedure I can follow, ruling everything out except for the ECU? I have a unlocked ECU sitting around, so I can use that. But I want to make sure that I don't lock this one, assuming the other one is locked. So how do I avoid that?

21st February 2011, 20:49

its def not the fuel cut off switch, has it got juice in and check the rail for fuel pressure, if the orange key is not flashing it wont have a key fault

21st February 2011, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by seddon89

its def not the fuel cut off switch, has it got juice in and check the rail for fuel pressure, if the orange key is not flashing it wont have a key fault

100% not fuel cut off switch. 100% it also has petrol in it. How to I check the fuel rail for pressure?

21st February 2011, 20:51

Did you unplug the ECU from the Loom with the Engine off?

21st February 2011, 20:53

there should be a bleeder on the injection rail, press the centre in or slowly take the pipe off and see if its got pressure

21st February 2011, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Did you unplug the ECU from the Loom with the Engine off?

With the engine not running? If so yes, the engine was not running when I took the ECU out.

21st February 2011, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

With the engine not running? If so yes, the engine was not running when I took the ECU out.

Then it'll be locked.

To unlock it, you have it running then unplug the ECU, then it's unlocked.

If you unplug it when the engine is off then it locks

21st February 2011, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Then it'll be locked.

To unlock it, you have it running then unplug the ECU, then it's unlocked.

If you unplug it when the engine is off then it locks

What the actual fuck. Seriously? So this ECU has to get unlocked by Citroen now? So a locked ECU stops the fuel pump from working? Also means that my other ECU is locked then if this is the case.

21st February 2011, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

What the actual fuck. Seriously? So this ECU has to get unlocked by Citroen now? So a locked ECU stops the fuel pump from working? Also means that my other ECU is locked then if this is the case.

Yeh, it happened to me, when I bought my spare engine, it didn't start so we just unplugged it, now it's locked, then I found out what I just told you, so because I get so curious I tried it with my Current ECU, Unplugged it while the Engine was idling, and sure enough, it's unlocked now.

So, yeh I'd say you have a locked ECU lol.

21st February 2011, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Yeh, it happened to me, when I bought my spare engine, it didn't start so we just unplugged it, now it's locked, then I found out what I just told you, so because I get so curious I tried it with my Current ECU, Unplugged it while the Engine was idling, and sure enough, it's unlocked now.

So, yeh I'd say you have a locked ECU lol.

Fucking hell, French engineering at its finest lol.

Right so my scenario now is, I have one locked ECU, that is the ECU off the car.
I have the ECU that came off my replacement engine, but I also removed the ECU using the method. So is this ECU locked too? Or can I still use it with the same engine?

21st February 2011, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

Fucking hell, French engineering at its finest lol.

Right so my scenario now is, I have one locked ECU, that is the ECU off the car.
I have the ECU that came off my replacement engine, but I also removed the ECU using the method. So is this ECU locked too? Or can I still use it with the same engine?

I'm not sure how it works, because in my head, if the take the battery out so there's no power, then unplug the ECU how does it know? It's got no power lol but some how, it does...

So, if the other ECU was unplugged without the Engine running then I'd think that would be locked also, and useless I think.

But, if I was you I'd try it, I mean, it takes like 10 seconds to switch them lol.

21st February 2011, 21:15

I've learned this lesson a few times lol, I have a few ECU's I need unlocking

21st February 2011, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

I'm not sure how it works, because in my head, if the take the battery out so there's no power, then unplug the ECU how does it know? It's got no power lol but some how, it does...

So, if the other ECU was unplugged without the Engine running then I'd think that would be locked also, and useless I think.

But, if I was you I'd try it, I mean, it takes like 10 seconds to switch them lol.

That's exactly my logic!

So does "locked" Mean it's locked as in can't be used at all, or used in any other engines?

Yeah I'm going to try it, but am I going to experience any immobiliser/Toad car alarm issues?

21st February 2011, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

That's exactly my logic!

So does "locked" Mean it's locked as in can't be used at all, or used in any other engines?

Yeah I'm going to try it, but am I going to experience any immobiliser/Toad car alarm issues?

Shouldn't do, it has nothing to do with your ECU, it works off its own back lol.

And, yeh it means it's useless now, locked, unless you get it unlocked.

Someone said to me you can use it on the car it came from, but mine didn't...

Someone said if you use the ignition barrel that goes with that ECU it'll work, I found otherwise, so as far as I've found out, once it's locked, it's locked to everything apart from unlocking software lol.

21st February 2011, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Shouldn't do, it has nothing to do with your ECU, it works off its own back lol.

And, yeh it means it's useless now, locked, unless you get it unlocked.

Someone said to me you can use it on the car it came from, but mine didn't...

Someone said if you use the ignition barrel that goes with that ECU it'll work, I found otherwise, so as far as I've found out, once it's locked, it's locked to everything apart from unlocking software lol.

Ok cool. And where can I get my ECU Unlocked? I'm guessing Citroen Direct? And any idea of cost?

Thanks for all your advice, been very helpful and cleared up alot of grey areas

21st February 2011, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

Ok cool. And where can I get my ECU Unlocked? I'm guessing Citroen Direct? And any idea of cost?

Thanks for all your advice, been very helpful and cleared up alot of grey areas

You're welcome mate

I'd go to a Car tuning place, first as it'll be cheaper I think.

Most places with RR's will unlock them, some Mobile Auto Electricians may also unlock them.

I think it's around £50, not 100% on that though

21st February 2011, 21:37

But please, make sure it is locked before you spend money on it haha.

Do the normal fault finding, etc... Fuses etc... After all you're the one with the car, not me I'd hate for you to find out it's not the ECU lmao... Oh dear...

21st February 2011, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

You're welcome mate

I'd go to a Car tuning place, first as it'll be cheaper I think.

Most places with RR's will unlock them, some Mobile Auto Electricians may also unlock them.

I think it's around £50, not 100% on that though

Top man! Thanks again mate

21st February 2011, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

Top man! Thanks again mate

Post how it goes yeh?

I'd like to know

21st February 2011, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

But please, make sure it is locked before you spend money on it haha.

Do the normal fault finding, etc... Fuses etc... After all you're the one with the car, not me I'd hate for you to find out it's not the ECU lmao... Oh dear...

Lol, yeah I have checked everything I can think of, fuses, earthing points, ect.

Edit: And I will update with any more problems, hopefully it will be no more problems, just solutions lol

21st February 2011, 21:54

Ye lol good luck

22nd February 2011, 11:41

... gonna have to bump this thread I'm afraid guys.
I'm far from technical, but am having a very similar issue with my '97 1.6 VTR.

Left untouched over the winter, I sadly cannot recall my code for the immobiliser keypad.

Was hoping there may be a way to trace the wires from the ignition and bypass the immobiliser altogether. Has anyone tried this ? had any success ?

I've clearly locked out the ECU, and it's either I bypass the thing somehow (I don't care if I have to rip out half of the interior to get to these damn wires if, once found, I can indeed get her running). From reading some of the comments before this one it sounds like you have to have the car running and immobilised before any bypass can be made. Is that right?

If there's nothing I can do without a replacement ECU or a large garage bill then she's off to the scrapyard.

Any advice would be most appreciated !!!

22nd February 2011, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukimura

... gonna have to bump this thread I'm afraid guys.
I'm far from technical, but am having a very similar issue with my '97 1.6 VTR.

Left untouched over the winter, I sadly cannot recall my code for the immobiliser keypad.

Was hoping there may be a way to trace the wires from the ignition and bypass the immobiliser altogether. Has anyone tried this ? had any success ?

I've clearly locked out the ECU, and it's either I bypass the thing somehow (I don't care if I have to rip out half of the interior to get to these damn wires if, once found, I can indeed get her running). From reading some of the comments before this one it sounds like you have to have the car running and immobilised before any bypass can be made. Is that right?

If there's nothing I can do without a replacement ECU or a large garage bill then she's off to the scrapyard.

Any advice would be most appreciated !!!

Yes you have to have the car running then remove the immbolisher box to cancel out the immbolisher, cost 50 quid to get an ecu unlocked, have a search

22nd February 2011, 11:52

I have the (rather obvious) problem that the car is stuck in my garden (lovely).

Is the ECU something I can easily have out and take to a garage etc? If so, and once unlocked, would I then have the ability to re-set my own code etc? or would it default back to some factory standard or the previously used code?

Thanks for your swift response mate !!

22nd February 2011, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukimura

I have the (rather obvious) problem that the car is stuck in my garden (lovely).

Is the ECU something I can easily have out and take to a garage etc? If so, and once unlocked, would I then have the ability to re-set my own code etc? or would it default back to some factory standard or the previously used code?

Thanks for your swift response mate !!

easy mate, just held to the tray with a few 8mm ( i think) nuts, and a garage won't be able to unlock it, u'd have to send it to a specilist, give daniel a pm carelectrician@gmail.com, i sent mine to get unlocked by him, did a great job, and with it unlocked you won't need a code, the car will turn on with just the key

22nd February 2011, 14:32

To the original poster, I mgiht have missed the concept here, but can't you get someone breakign a VTR to start the engine, unplug their ECU therefore unlocking it and then send it to you to use on your car? Will this not work?

May be cheaper than getting yours unlocked if thats the case

22nd February 2011, 17:53

I believe unlocked ECU's are around £50? Sometimes more?

28th February 2011, 09:06

Apologies for bumping ...

I'm guessing a Citroen dealership might be one place to get the ECU unlocked? I don't want some cowboy charging me £80.

Also, does anyone know what state the ECU is in after unlocking? I mean will I be able to enter a new code of my choosing?

Thanks guys.

28th February 2011, 09:16

- sorry, I didn't see the responses before I wrote the above! And couldn't find an edit button...

Will give Daniel a shout.

Many thanks!!

1st March 2011, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukimura

- sorry, I didn't see the responses before I wrote the above! And couldn't find an edit button...

Will give Daniel a shout.

Many thanks!!

Don't even consider Citroen for unlocking a ECU, they wanted £89 just to plug the diagnostic machine in, then hourly labour on top of that! Not to mention they wanted the car there, and my car is not mobile at the moment, a thought Citroen found hard to grasp

Followed the advice of a member, can't remember his name now lol. But I sent it to carelectrician@gmail.com. Service has been top, communication first class from the first point of contact. Answered my questions freely, and promptly. Keep me updated when the ECU was unlocked and ready for dispatch, and I have had postage confirmed today. Very good, considering it was posted 'next day delivery' on Saturday.

2nd March 2011, 23:06

Right received my unlocked ECU today. Plugged my ECU in tonight, and tried to start the car with no luck... Sounds like the fuel line is attempting to suck fuel into the fuel rail, but the pump is still not priming! Could it be a case of waiting for the ECU to familiarise it's self with the car, in order to prime the fuel pump?

2nd March 2011, 23:10

No...

Fuel pump / fuel pump fuse / fuel pump relay / wiring.

2nd March 2011, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

No...

Fuel pump / fuel pump fuse / fuel pump relay / wiring.

How do I check weather it's the fuel pump itself that's not working? The fuses are fine, will try a different relay. And how to I check the relevant wiring?

3rd March 2011, 00:12

Would having the car on axle stands effect the fuel pump kicking in at all? I cannot for the life of me understand why the fuel pump would suddenly stop working...