Saxo rear axle fault, camber?

26th February 2011, 16:30

Been sent a couple of pics of the car i'm looking to view, but noticed that the rear wheels look to have a bit of camber, is it just me or does that look like the type of camber that happens when the axle is fucked, or is it just because its so low?

Cheers

EDIT: Pic of a different car at the bottom...

26th February 2011, 16:31

Hard to tell from the pictures.

26th February 2011, 16:52

Ah really, anyone else hazard a guess?

If i was to go look at it then how would I know, anything but perfectly inline with the fronts and its effed?

26th February 2011, 16:56

They have very slight camber. Check for uneven tyre wear and play in the trailing arms if you jack the rear of the car up.

26th February 2011, 16:57

As said its hard to tell with pics. Best to get a shot from directly behind the car so you can see if the wheels are like /-----\

The only sure fire way of knowing is jacking it up and giving the wheel a rock back and forth, but you can only do this if you go to view it.

26th February 2011, 17:00

Could just be the angle of the camera

Need a pic from behind the car, straight on and low down to be able to tell really

If there is any camber in the rear wheels or play in the axle, bear in mind it will almost always fail an MOT and a near rear axle is £200-£400

26th February 2011, 17:21

Fair enough, if I do go to view it I'll have a look at that part, the last mot did have an advisory for:

BOTH REAR Rear wheel bearing has slight play (2.6.2)

Rear BOTH SIDES Axle beam has slight vertical movement between stub axle and axle beam (2.5.A.1a)
Offside Rear Axle beam has slight vertical movement between stub axle and axle beam (2.5.A.1a)

But the seller told me he was told its had a new rear axle before he got it, then I saw that picture. He did say its straight and nothing wrong with it though and that i'm welcome to take a look at it, as he is sure I won't find anything wrong?

As for the trailing arms, this may sound stupid but which bits are these and how would i go about checking them and the rest of the axle?

26th February 2011, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyza

They have very slight camber. Check for uneven tyre wear and play in the trailing arms if you jack the rear of the car up.

How do you mean they have very slight camber? As in those in the pic above do or that saxos do as normal?

Cheers

26th February 2011, 17:29

Play in the trailing arms is a similar check for wheel bearing play.

Trialing arms are the two black arms that come out the axle with the hubs and calipers attached.

26th February 2011, 17:43

Is it the part at the end of the yellow bit, not the bit which the top of the shock attaches to but the other one?

And so hold the wheel at 12 and 6 and see if it wobbles?

As for saying they have very slight camber..was that meaning normal for saxos or the pic above has slight abnormal camber?

Cheers

26th February 2011, 17:47

ive heard of people who have bought a reconditioned axle had it fitted then the next time the mot came round the axle had gone again so try be carfull if you do decide to get it and repair it.

i just had my rear axle done, found many other faults though, 6 new break lines, load compressor was knackered, new disc's and pads at the rear, o/s driveshaft gater.
ended up near £700 with mot!

26th February 2011, 17:53

I'm not sure there is a problem with the axle mate, if there is I'll either be walking away or looking for enough money off to cover replacement, if it hasn't been replaced does that MOT advisory sound like its going?

26th February 2011, 19:33

i'd imagine it is a problem with the rear axle, v common problem with saxo's. even more so on lowered ones. if you do buy a lowered one and the axle is fine, it may be on its way out anyway so its a hard one to decide. if you really like that particular one then maybe it is worth getting a recon axle so you know it will last. if it has an advisory about the axle movement then it isnt going to get any better. mine got worse quite qucikly.
i got one from just pug citreon but they are hard work as they didnt send mine for 6 days after i payed them. 160 for a completly bare axle

26th February 2011, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL3X_

if it hasn't been replaced does that MOT advisory sound like its going?

In short, yes. If it's only very slight play then you might be able to get away with new bearings provided the old ones haven't munched into the stub axle. If the stubs have gone then it's new beam time.

Very hard to tell from the pics though. All saxo's came with a_very_slight degree of rear camber from the factory though.

26th February 2011, 22:05

Well tbh I wasn't sure if that advisory meant the rear axle as all the ones I have seen before said something along the lines of "radius arms have excessive play in a pin bush" or something, whereas what this one says is above and different?

This seller said to me he was told it was replaced before he got it, and that its straight and has no play, and the previous owner to him i've spoken to and she says she thought it had been replaced as there was no play at all, its a weird one to call. :/

26th February 2011, 22:10

Different garages/mechanics call things by different names. My dad's mechanic friend looked at me strangely when I mentioned 'trailing arm' until I pointed at them and he said Radius Arm.

The play you've mentioned 'between stub axle and axle beam' sounds to me like he meams there's play between where the arm is mounted on the stub axle and the beam, which would suggest dying axle bearings.

26th February 2011, 22:33

Ah got ya mate, thats bad news though. This car does look quite good for the price i've got him to bearing in mind the mileage and service history, but this is something which will make me wanna leave it

Although I have had a thought, the advisorys I mentioned before:
BOTH REAR Rear wheel bearing has slight play (2.6.2)

Rear BOTH SIDES Axle beam has slight vertical movement between stub axle and axle beam (2.5.A.1a)
Offside Rear Axle beam has slight vertical movement between stub axle and axle beam (2.5.A.1a)

were from the MOT on 06/2010, the car has had a couple of owners since then, and the current owner and previous one to that both say the axle had no play.

Could this part:
BOTH REAR Rear wheel bearing has slight play (2.6.2)

be play in the axle which has been misdiagnosed as wheel bearing play? And therefore if its not there now it could indeed have had an axle change since then?

The only thing which doesn't back that theory up is the car does look at the exact same height now as it did when the first seller on here had it for sale:

recent:

back in 09:

1st March 2011, 16:27

How does this one look?

3rd March 2011, 13:15

i'd be a little weary. if your unsure find another one. there is loads of saxo's knocking about. failing that if you alright with a spanner then there is no reason you wont be able to replace the axle if it is faulty. tough call really.

3rd March 2011, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riko360

i'd be a little weary. if your unsure find another one. there is loads of saxo's knocking about. failing that if you alright with a spanner then there is no reason you wont be able to replace the axle if it is faulty. tough call really.

Hi mate, sorry think you misunderstood, the latest picture I posted is a different car, the first one(smoothed on black VTR wheels) is out of the question now, spoke to the previous owner of it.

3rd March 2011, 13:33

jack it up mate best way or take it for a drive you will know straight away just try jacking up on the rear and wobbling wheel u shouldnt be able to really lift the wheel or rock it back and 4th

3rd March 2011, 13:38

coor thats bloody low on the back . must be on the bump stops which can also effect the camber. looks like its on its way out but plenty of life left in it yet im sure

3rd March 2011, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by blainej

jack it up mate best way or take it for a drive you will know straight away just try jacking up on the rear and wobbling wheel u shouldnt be able to really lift the wheel or rock it back and 4th

So I shouldn't be able to push the wheel upwards(like when a shock is knackered on a strut type suspension setup?) And it shouldn't move back and forward/wobble about?

How would I tell by driving it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stroutsy

coor thats bloody low on the back . must be on the bump stops which can also effect the camber. looks like its on its way out but plenty of life left in it yet im sure

The first smoothed one? Yeah I won't be buying that one,and I don't recommend anyone else does form what i've heard.

3rd March 2011, 14:31

tbh every Saxo I look at has bent camber!

3rd March 2011, 18:34

I've got the same problem mate.
This is how i got told to check it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blainej

just try jacking up on the rear and wobbling wheel u shouldnt be able to really lift the wheel or rock it back and 4th

Mine has play only on the drivers side

3rd March 2011, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyVTS

tbh every Saxo I look at has bent camber!

A lot of factors involved like flat/level ground? Also, depends how much camber, if its negative camber by >-0.08 degree -Its negligible and wont make a difference.

4th March 2011, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnr32

A lot of factors involved like flat/level ground? Also, depends how much camber, if its negative camber by >-0.08 degree -Its negligible and wont make a difference.

I've got an Autodata print out in my hand. The rear of a stock sax should have just over 1deg of negative camber and just over half a deg of toe in.

If you lower them they will look like they've got more camber because the toe and the camber will merge together as the angle of the trailing arm changes.

4th March 2011, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon

I've got an Autodata print out in my hand. The rear of a stock sax should have just over 1deg of negative camber and just over half a deg of toe in.

Very useful to know, thanks Gordon. Can anyone access this autodata as I want to browse some specs.

4th March 2011, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnr32

Very useful to know, thanks Gordon. Can anyone access this autodata as I want to browse some specs.

No problem. If you want them a bit more acurately:

Front toe: 0.33deg +/- 0.16
Front Camber: 0.66deg +/- 0.5
Castor: 2.22deg +/-0.5

Rear toe: 0.66deg +/- 0.4
Rear Camber: 1.58deg +/-0.5

There's KPI angles etc but I dont want to fill this thread with a whole list.

I don't know how accessible they're supposed to be, but I just walked into a garage that does allignment (The mrs had had her car done and we were picking it up) and asked for the data.

6th March 2011, 09:42

Look at the tyres to see if that are wearing on the inside plus look at the arches to see if there is rub marks on um and of course shake the wheels car looks nice tho my vtr is the same colour but dint know if to spray my wheels black or white fink I may go for the black looks nice