100bhp???

1. tarzan Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Lurgan Posts: 767 2001 black saxo furio 2001 black saxo vts

   #1 3rd March 2011, 17:28

   was on wikipedia there and typed in 'psa tu' and scrolled down and hada look at the tu3 enigine which i have in the furio (1360cc) there is a table that has engine codes and with the engine codes has a bhp and the highest there is 100bhp...
   
   
   my question is (if you have had a look at this) can u achieve 100bhp without boost and focusing only on the injection system???
2. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #2 3rd March 2011, 17:36

   you basically want the 106 rallye engine. Ditch yours and get yourself a proper motorsport derived engine with a better head and induction.

   1 user thanked this post: user_44502
3. tarzan Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Lurgan Posts: 767 2001 black saxo furio 2001 black saxo vts

   #3 3rd March 2011, 18:10

   is the rallye the same displacement?
4. user_37187 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2009 Stranraer Posts: 3437 bodied VTR

   #4 3rd March 2011, 18:14

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by tarzan is the rallye the same displacement?

   smaller, 1.3 8valve
5. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #5 3rd March 2011, 18:17

   rallye engine is 1294cc but its a much more developed engine. Most i've seen on rolling roads were popping out 105bhp with ease. XSI was a 1360cc engine but had the bigger bearing heads like the rallyes.
6. tarzan Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Lurgan Posts: 767 2001 black saxo furio 2001 black saxo vts

   #6 3rd March 2011, 18:46

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by KamRacing rallye engine is 1294cc but its a much more developed engine. Most i've seen on rolling roads were popping out 105bhp with ease. XSI was a 1360cc engine but had the bigger bearing heads like the rallyes.

   yeah i read that the 1.4 sxi were pushing 95/100 bhp. is it all about the bearings??? is it more the port and polish type of thing i also read that they have the magneti throttle body.
   
   or are these the types of mods you wud only bother putting on a vts
7. user_44357 Regular Poster Joined: May 2010 Kent Posts: 431

   #7 3rd March 2011, 19:08

   The head and inlet helped a lot on the 1.3 rallyes I think.... I got a 1.3 rallye head, 270 cam and a 1.3 rallye inlet on a 1.6 VTR lump. said do be running 128bhp which I been told is a respectable figure. Obviously the ECU is mapped to suit too
8. Lewis Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Oct 2009 Middlesbrough/Coventry Posts: 3808 Megane 225

   #8 3rd March 2011, 19:23

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by BenPUG106 The head and inlet helped a lot on the 1.3 rallyes I think.... I got a 1.3 rallye head, 270 cam and a 1.3 rallye inlet on a 1.6 VTR lump. said do be running 128bhp which I been told is a respectable figure. Obviously the ECU is mapped to suit too

   That's very impressive. The Rallye engines are designed with performance in mind, and considering it is a N/A 1.3 with 100bhp for 1993 its way ahead of itself. Unfortunately this leaves little room for improvement on an already excellent design.
9. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

   #9 3rd March 2011, 19:27

   The 100bhp 1360cc TU engine came in the AX 1.4 GTI and the 106 1.4 XSI and are both great little engines. Some of the bioggest reasons these engines make so much more then the later is the cylinder head design and the solid rockers. The heads on these engines as well as the 106 Rallye use the same valve sizing, chambers and ports as on the Black top VTR. The bearing size was never an issue on power output but you do have to get a cam with the correct size bearings for the given head.
10. tarzan Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Lurgan Posts: 767 2001 black saxo furio 2001 black saxo vts

    #10 3rd March 2011, 19:33

    so its just a cammed engine
11. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #11 3rd March 2011, 20:26

    no, the head flows better and the inlet menifold is superior too. This means a lairy cam can be used and more power can be made. I have customers in europe running the rallye engine towards 10,000 rpm! Obviously not standard lol
12. tarzan Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Lurgan Posts: 767 2001 black saxo furio 2001 black saxo vts

    #12 3rd March 2011, 23:56

    10,000rpm i can honestly say... WOW
13. Saxovch22 Established Member Joined: Feb 2011 Scotland Posts: 1191 02 Saxo Vts

    #13 4th March 2011, 10:05

    That's mental , they can't be N/A can they ?
14. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #14 4th March 2011, 10:27

    normally aspirated. It seems Portugal is a nice little hotpot of race teams pushing these engines to the limits. The camshafts I sold are pretty mental and I doubt theres a standard component left in the engine.
15. lharrowing Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2008 norwich Posts: 941 Citroen Saxo Westcoast MK1

    #15 4th March 2011, 10:49

    Thats crazy would be nice to see some sort of spec list to how they manage to get these little engines to rev to that.
16. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

    #16 4th March 2011, 14:02

    The sporty 8V engines are pretty tough little things, you would be surprised how far you can push a relatively standard one. Though the cam does tend to go walkies if your going for astronomical revs.
17. Steffrallye Established Member Joined: Aug 2008 Bodelwyddan , N.Wales Posts: 1252 Peugeot S2 106 GTi 1.6 16v

    #17 4th March 2011, 15:05

    main differences between them to get 100bhp is
    
    Rallye - Bigger cam, better inlet and larger throttle bodie, larger valves, domed pistons, larger injectors, Ecu map also hight rev limit.
    
    1.4 xsi - Domed pistons (larger than rallye) bigger cam (not as large as rallye) Larger valves and again ecu and rpm limit
    
    best mix - 1.4 xsi block with rallye head/cam, inlet, TB, injectors and management
18. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #18 4th March 2011, 15:08

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Saxovch22 That's mental , they can't be N/A can they ?

    why not, NA engines are generally the ones that rev higher than boosted
19. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #19 4th March 2011, 15:16

    easy enough to get 120/130 out of a 1.4 using standard parts
20. tarzan Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Lurgan Posts: 767 2001 black saxo furio 2001 black saxo vts

    #20 4th March 2011, 15:31

    this is all interesting stuff im glad i looked into it now, never knew any of this
21. user_18250 Established Member Joined: Sep 2007 Swadlincote Posts: 1185 2003 Black VTR

    #21 6th March 2011, 14:07

    You all failed to mention the Rallye uses an alloy engine block too, whereas the XSi and the VTR use cast iron blocks. Allows for a more revvy little engine that will disperse heat quicker. However models like the XSi and VTR were designed and produced with economy and daily driving in mind so not only is this luxury not needed but producing 100,000 engines out of standard cast iron will be much much cheaper and bigger money made for citroen than producing every engine in expensive alloy.
    
    There were loads of other minor changes too, the Rallye shell was designed to only weigh around 850kg whereas other luxury trim 106s and saxos weigh around 980kg with the driver included and most people forget what an important factor weight reduction can be in producing good horsepower. Rallye steelies also, one of the best set of track wheels available purely for their lightness.
    
    Higher lifting cams and a well ported throttle body as standard as already mentioned, and probably loads of other things the more informed can mention!