dampers and torsion bars

1. matt_wolves Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Braunton Posts: 330 BLACK SAXO VT?

   #1 8th March 2011, 15:21

   do you need to change the torsion bars to thicker ones if u want to run bilstein group n dampers???
2. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

   #2 8th March 2011, 15:26

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by matt_wolves do you need to change the torsion bars to thicker ones if u want to run bilstein group n dampers???

   imo yes, bilstein group n's will over dampen the standard torsion bars.
   As far as i am aware, the blue capped bilstein group n rear dampers are designed for the 21mm psf torsion bars.
   
   I ran the group n's on my standard torsion bars before getting the 21mm bars, it wasnt to bad. But when turning sharp in tight bends, thats when i noticed it was over dampened as the rear inside tyre used to slide.
   Soon as i put the 21mm bars in, that went. And did handle alot better.
   
   The B8's are more suited to the standard torsion bars. The group n's are alot firmer compared to the B8's and there is a clearly visible difference in size.
   
   Been in a few cars with 21mm bars and b8 rears. Instantly it feels under dampened on the rear.
3. matt_wolves Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Braunton Posts: 330 BLACK SAXO VT?

   #3 8th March 2011, 15:34

   ok mate cheers thats a great help
4. willsy West Midlands Joined: Nov 2005 Nuneaton (West Mids) Posts: 13835 '64 Volvo V40 R’Design, '89 Ph1 309 GTi, ‘97 Mk1 S

   #4 8th March 2011, 16:53

   What do you use the car for? If its just for jollying from A to B then even though the Billie Group N's are more suited to 21mm bars it would be completely pointless spending out on thicker torsion bars (especially if theyre pugsport ones which IMO are rip off prices now)
   
   Therefore you could argue that for A to B use even the Billie group N's are a pointless over expense.
   
   
   Its all swings and round abouts, if moneys not an option and you just want good quality bits that are more than capable for track day use as well as road use then then theres loads of options.
   
   If your main use is on the roads then theres absolutely nothing wrong with getting the Apex kit for example which is very good value and decent performance for the money and any spare funds spend those on upgrading bushes and other suspension components which may be well worn.
   
   A well maintained suspension setup ultimately will offer the best satisfaction. Simply fitting expensive dampers and leaving the rest completely standard as many do is a less sensible option.
5. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

   #5 8th March 2011, 17:02

   im using group n billies and standard rear bars. its a good combo imo! i have tried gaz, spax and standard dampers. groupn by far best match for track stuff.
6. matt_wolves Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Braunton Posts: 330 BLACK SAXO VT?

   #6 8th March 2011, 18:04

   well the reason i have got the group n`s is because i got them off my bro and i only paid £30 for them and there in excellent condition with abit or rust on the bottom the size of a 5p coin and they have only done about 2k miles so i thought they were a bargain??
7. kyle4256 Established Member Joined: Feb 2008 dundee Posts: 1844 saxo vts

   #7 8th March 2011, 18:32

   defo a bargain i would say, alot of folk use the b8dampers with standard bars, i personally aint tried it yet but im lookin into what i should do for the back end
8. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

   #8 8th March 2011, 19:40

   They have Group N front dampers the rear are just Sprintline dampers.
9. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #9 8th March 2011, 20:49

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by AXracing They have Group N front dampers the rear are just Sprintline dampers.

   who do?
   The b8 sprintline dampers and group n's are completely different. The old Bilstein saxo sprintline kits actually used to be sold with a group N front damper and b8 rear, yet the 106 got b8's all round. Never did get to the bottom of that one. Personally I prefer the opposite way round running group n rears and b8 fronts to encourage a more nervous car.
   
   Kev
10. user_15989 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2007 Posts: 4857

    #10 8th March 2011, 21:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing who do? The b8 sprintline dampers and group n's are completely different. The old Bilstein saxo sprintline kits actually used to be sold with a group N front damper and b8 rear, yet the 106 got b8's all round. Never did get to the bottom of that one. Personally I prefer the opposite way round running group n rears and b8 fronts to encourage a more nervous car. Kev

    LOL guess I used to have the 106 kit then. No wonder I thought they where to soft and had to get them revalved
11. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #11 9th March 2011, 10:08

    Mine are real group n dwarf b8's at the rear.
12. matt_wolves Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Braunton Posts: 330 BLACK SAXO VT?

    #12 9th March 2011, 10:10

    so would group n rears with standard torsion bars and b8 fronts be ok or will it be to twitchy??
13. Steve Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 19910 CW Honda Integra DC5

    #13 9th March 2011, 10:30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by matt_wolves so would group n rears with standard torsion bars and b8 fronts be ok or will it be to twitchy??

    what you using the car for?
    Group N's are pointless purely for the road. B8's is what you want with some decent front springs, d.faulkner 155lb for instance.
14. matt_wolves Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2010 Braunton Posts: 330 BLACK SAXO VT?

    #14 9th March 2011, 10:44

    yh its for the road but i paid £30 for excellent condition grp n's so i thought i might aswell use them??
15. willsy West Midlands Joined: Nov 2005 Nuneaton (West Mids) Posts: 13835 '64 Volvo V40 R’Design, '89 Ph1 309 GTi, ‘97 Mk1 S

    #15 9th March 2011, 23:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by matt_wolves yh its for the road but i paid £30 for excellent condition grp n's so i thought i might aswell use them??

    They will be fine to use on the standard torsion bars honestly. A little over damped perhaps but nothing to worry about and its certainly a much bigger benefit to use the decent dampers than it would be to still have tired old standard dampers on.
    
    Stick with the group N's but really dont worry about upgrading torsion bars