Torque steering

1st April 2011, 09:45

What causes torque steering. Can wheel balancing have a part to play

1st April 2011, 10:18

Try ths explanation mate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

Steve.

1st April 2011, 18:08

Thanx I was looking for something more specific to saxos. I seem to have developed some torque steer over night. I did switch my front tyres over yesterday could this be the problem

1st April 2011, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveg1

Thanx I was looking for something more specific to saxos. I seem to have developed some torque steer over night. I did switch my front tyres over yesterday could this be the problem

this isnt torque steer mate sounds like your on about steering wheel wobble ?

1st April 2011, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveg1

Thanx I was looking for something more specific to saxos. I seem to have developed some torque steer over night. I did switch my front tyres over yesterday could this be the problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bensvts

this isnt torque steer mate sounds like your on about steering wheel wobble ?

Well, if he has a shit tyre on one side and a good one on the other, one side will grip more, and cause Torque Steer

1st April 2011, 18:20

one side gripping more than the other is not torque steer. torque steer is a inclination angle based geometry issue. nothing to do with grip

1st April 2011, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

one side gripping more than the other is not torque steer. torque steer is a inclination angle based geometry issue. nothing to do with grip

+1 for what ever that was

As said, it sounds like wheel wobble mate, tyres are unbalanced

1st April 2011, 18:43

it's probably a problem with toe angles on one side, or maybe a ball joint gone

1st April 2011, 18:54

Torque steer is more common on higher powered engines such as turbocharged engines, and is caused by unequal traction forces due to road surface or possibly tyres

although other things can cause torque steer

1st April 2011, 19:05

i would say unequal tractive forces. and torque steer would not be classified as being effected by road surface or tyres. if this was so rwd cars would suffer from this just as much, which they do, but is not torque steer. torque steer is the geometry of the car actually turning the driven wheels, NOT turning through different tractive forces on the road surface which would cause the car to turn in a kind of tank style skid steer principle. it is the application of high power through these angles that pulls the steering system in one direction.

1st April 2011, 19:08

If I'm on a road doing 60 and accelerate the car pulls to the left and when I come off the power it straightens up. Torque steer is just my best guess as to a description of my problem

1st April 2011, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeVTR

Torque steer is more common on higher powered engines such as turbocharged engines, and is caused by unequal traction forces due to road surface or possibly tyres

although other things can cause torque steer

Yeh, that's what I always thought.

That's why brand new high power cars, such as Focus RS, have it.

1st April 2011, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveg1

If I'm on a road doing 60 and accelerate the car pulls to the left and when I come off the power it straightens up. Torque steer is just my best guess as to a description of my problem

Nope, not torque steer, you don't have that much power to spin at 60mph lol.

1st April 2011, 19:16

I'm not saying it has anything to do with grip and I don't think for a second I could spin my wheels at that speed. I just notice it most at those speeds

1st April 2011, 19:18

you don't need to spin your wheels to attain torque steer! please, not learning at all is better than learning wrong

1st April 2011, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

you don't need to spin your wheels to attain torque steer! please, not learning at all is better than learning wrong

Of Course you don't have to spin your wheels lol.
Torque steering is the influence of engine torque on the steering for some front-wheel drive vehicles. For example, during heavy acceleration the steering may pull to one side, which may be disturbing to the driver. The effect is manifested either as a tugging sensation in the steering wheel, or a veering of the vehicle from the intended path. Torque steer is directly related to differences in the forces in the contact patches of the left and right drive wheels. The effect becomes more evident when high torques are applied to the drive wheels either because of low transmission gearing, high engine torque, or some combination of the two. Torque steering is distinct from steering kickback.

1st April 2011, 19:26

So we have now learnt that I'm not doing fast and furious burnt outs and getting torque steer, but that at most speeds when I increase power my car pulls to left and when I ease off it straighten up. Call it wjat you will, but what is causing my problems

1st April 2011, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Torque steer is directly related to differences in the forces in the contact patches of the left and right drive wheels. Torque steering is distinct from steering kickback.

It is not. The turning of the car under these conditions is not down to differing torque applied to the left and right wheels. (although this will occur with any car with an open differential, but will cause a very different feeling) it is the steering being turned through the suspension angles.

1st April 2011, 19:39

Bike kid is correct, engine torque affecting the steering, uneventorque transfer between the wheels will cause the car to steer one way or another

1st April 2011, 19:42

it isn't a differential based effect. you can get a solid diff in a fwd car (so perfect 50/50 torque delivery at each wheel), and have slicks and a silky smooth track, and still experience torque steer. i've already explained it, but i give up. what you read elsewhere on google etc to try and convince can be misleading as it does not describe what this torque actually does to turn the car.

1st April 2011, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveg1

So we have now learnt that I'm not doing fast and furious burnt outs and getting torque steer, but that at most speeds when I increase power my car pulls to left and when I ease off it straighten up. Call it wjat you will, but what is causing my problems

Yeh, sorry about the random talking lol.

It does sound like you have something loose, have you checked your ball joints and everything?

When my Wishbone went, my car did what you describe, but when I put my foot down, it felt like my wheels were buckling lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeVTR

Bike kid is correct, engine torque affecting the steering, uneventorque transfer between the wheels will cause the car to steer one way or another

Thanks Snake, I'm not here to argue, just help...

1st April 2011, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

it isn't a differential based effect. you can get a solid diff in a fwd car (so perfect 50/50 torque delivery at each wheel), and have slicks and a silky smooth track, and still experience torque steer. i've already explained it, but i give up. what you read elsewhere on google etc to try and convince can be misleading as it does not describe what this torque actually does to turn the car.

Alright, no need to loose your hair lol.

You may be right, if you are then well done

1st April 2011, 19:49

no, don't get me wrong, i'm not at boiling point. i just don't like people learning wrong. as they tell people, then they tell people. then the whole forum gets infected with bad knowledge. kinda like the banking crisis lol

1st April 2011, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

no, don't get me wrong, i'm not at boiling point. i just don't like people learning wrong. as they tell people, then they tell people. then the whole forum gets infected with bad knowledge. kinda like the banking crisis lol

Haha yeh I know what you mean, there's often a lot of threads with total crap on them, then the OP goes and spends money when they don't need to.

Not good lol.

1st April 2011, 19:58

lol we can learn from eachother

1st April 2011, 20:53

Yeah but no ones seems to be... Adamski has given the correct definition of torque steer repeatedly and no one's listening, instead harping on about traction and tyres and shite like that.

Poor geometry can make it seem a lot worse but the main cause of torque steer is driveshaft angle creating unequal torques around the kingpin and it tries to steer the car, which can set up a weave as it's countered by the other side. If you look under most FWD cars the diff isn't in the middle but there is an intermediate shaft that is supported, meaning that both driveshafts can be equal length, which means they're more likely to be running at the same angle.

1st April 2011, 21:02

the cavalry at last

1st April 2011, 21:29

Imma bite the bullet and ask...

Why is this a styling question?

1st April 2011, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oc2

Imma bite the bullet and ask...

Why is this a styling question?

Lol I never noticed that

1st April 2011, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tathan

Yeah but no ones seems to be... Adamski has given the correct definition of torque steer repeatedly and no one's listening, instead harping on about traction and tyres and shite like that.

Poor geometry can make it seem a lot worse but the main cause of torque steer is driveshaft angle creating unequal torques around the kingpin and it tries to steer the car, which can set up a weave as it's countered by the other side. If you look under most FWD cars the diff isn't in the middle but there is an intermediate shaft that is supported, meaning that both driveshafts can be equal length, which means they're more likely to be running at the same angle.

Very True

2nd April 2011, 02:43

If tyres are loosing traction, then they can't be causing torque steer, since they can't be transmitting torque to the road.

And FWIW, different length driveshafts affect torque steer (I think, adamski, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong), which Saxos do have, however if you've only got this 'torque steer' since changing wheels from one side to the other, it's obviously nothing to do with that.

2nd April 2011, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

If tyres are loosing traction, then they can't be causing torque steer, since they can't be transmitting torque to the road.

And FWIW, different length driveshafts affect torque steer (I think, adamski, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong), which Saxos do have, however if you've only got this 'torque steer' since changing wheels from one side to the other, it's obviously nothing to do with that.

VT models have an intermidiate bearing to make them equal length, and to try and cut down on torque steer.

tathan and Adam are 120% correct.

2nd April 2011, 04:51

I'm not sure all VT models have the intermediate bearing, don't get me wrong, I know some do, but I'm pretty sure my sister's mk1 VTR doesn't. And my old 106 XS (VTR engine blah, blah) certainly didn't. And just to add, I didn't put the intermediate bearing on mine when I went 16v, and still very rarely got any signs of torque steer either, which kinda makes sense, since these engine's don't really make a lot of torque anyway.

2nd April 2011, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

I'm not sure all VT models have the intermediate bearing, don't get me wrong, I know some do, but I'm pretty sure my sister's mk1 VTR doesn't. And my old 106 XS (VTR engine blah, blah) certainly didn't. And just to add, I didn't put the intermediate bearing on mine when I went 16v, and still very rarely got any signs of torque steer either, which kinda makes sense, since these engine's don't really make a lot of torque anyway.

My MK1 VTR does

2nd April 2011, 10:10

Have you checked tyre pressures?

2nd April 2011, 10:48

every vt* ive worked on has a intermediate bearing on the drivers side

as said these were put on to help reduce torque stear what the op has is not torque stear sounds more like unbalanced wheels or odd tyre pressures

3rd April 2011, 14:52

Nope not all vt's have them its alot like the 24mm arb on the GTI hit and miss, seems what ever was kicking about that day.

And they do naff all for torque steer, drive an Astra GTE, RS turbo then tell me your Saxo has torque steer!

3rd April 2011, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudandproud205

Nope not all vt's have them its alot like the 24mm arb on the GTI hit and miss, seems what ever was kicking about that day.

And they do naff all for torque steer, drive an Astra GTE, RS turbo then tell me your Saxo has torque steer!

i had one of these with a c20xe lump years ago, was very fun to drive