Important! : Help needed - Brake lines.

5th April 2011, 18:03

One day I'm gonna stop these help threads, as hopefully my car will run smooth, but is that just too much to ask with the french involved?
Anyway, was putting a new driveshaft seal on today, well that was the plan. Attempted to take the hubnuts off, with a friend taking the hubnuts off, and me in the car pressing the brake. I suddenly got a shit load of pedal travel. Got out the car to check the problem, I was greeted to a shit load of brake fluid on the floor, running from the near side rear brake line.

Ps, ignore the rust. Soon will be treated once I get on top of all the mechanical shizz.

^Believe that picture shows a crack in line?

Now, to my question(s). How much am I looking at getting this repaired? I'm guessing the best thing for me would be to replace both sides while I'm there no?

And where would I source new lines from?

Thanks

5th April 2011, 19:16

Just had to change mine mate.

That looks like your O/S brake line (it runs from the brake bias valve to the O/S calliper).

You would need to measure it (including the bends) using a piece of string, then go to a motor spares place and have a piece made to size out of 3/16" copper piping (remember to add an inch each side for the unions and flares).

Also check the unions. Some are 12mm thread and some are 10mm. You will need new unions and they obviously need fitting on the pipe before the flares are put on each end. You then just bend and manipulate the pipe to the shape you want it.

Use alot of WD40 and shock & unlock on the unions along with a brake pipe spanner because they are a bastard to undo.

5th April 2011, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

Just had to change mine mate.

That looks like your O/S brake line (it runs from the brake bias valve to the O/S calliper).

You would need to measure it (including the bends) using a piece of string, then go to a motor spares place and have a piece made to size out of 3/16" copper piping (remember to add an inch each side for the unions and flares).

Also check the unions. Some are 12mm thread and some are 10mm. You will need new unions and they obviously need fitting on the pipe before the flares are put on each end. You then just bend and manipulate the pipe to the shape you want it.

Use alot of WD40 and shock & unlock on the unions along with a brake pipe spanner because they are a bastard to undo.

Thanks for your advice mate

Did you not enquire about getting the part from Citroen direct?

I found these after doing a little browsing,

Would appear I need the part labelled number six, as it run's parallel with my rear beam. Which like you said, runs from the Bias Valve to the O/S.

And everything on a Saxo needs a shed load of WD lol.

The part number for number 6 for those who want to know, I believe is 4886 G3.

5th April 2011, 20:17

I did ask at shitroen but they said your best bet would be to do it like I did with copper piping because the original steel pipes rust, and they were special order and more expensive anyway

5th April 2011, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

I did ask at shitroen but they said your best bet would be to do it like I did with copper piping because the original steel pipes rust, and they were special order and more expensive anyway

Hmmm, that's pretty bullshit really. How hard was it getting the copper piping to bend which way you wanted it? And did you add any additional protection like hammerite?

5th April 2011, 20:31

The place i work does make brake pipes up for people most days, and we mainly use kunifer instead of copper, just as it tends to be more reliable (kunifer is a copper and nickel mix).

Its piss easy to bend its flaring the ends that you would have a problem with.

5th April 2011, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danch198

The place i work does make brake pipes up for people most days, and we mainly use kunifer instead of copper, just as it tends to be more reliable (kunifer is a copper and nickel mix).

Its piss easy to bend its flaring the ends that you would have a problem with.

How do you go about flaring the ends? I'm guessing that involves making the ends of the pipe slightly wider to fit over the calipers points?

5th April 2011, 20:45

Yes, they have either be concave on convex depending on what they are going on too. To flare the ends we use a very pricey tool, but it does the job pucca.

You can get cheap ones such as http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-pc-PIPE-FLA...item3a6380b91f but i have tried using these before and they leave a horrible seal lol, but will generally do the trick.

5th April 2011, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

How hard was it getting the copper piping to bend which way you wanted it? And did you add any additional protection like hammerite?

Use a pipe bending tool. It's quite easy kink the copper then you're back to square one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

How do you go about flaring the ends? I'm guessing that involves making the ends of the pipe slightly wider to fit over the calipers points?

Flaring tool dude. You need it there to allow the union to push the brake pipe against the connection forming a seal between the unions. Technically its not really flared, it's more like rolled back on itself ever so slightly.

5th April 2011, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danch198

Yes, they have either be concave on convex depending on what they are going on too. To flare the ends we use a very pricey tool, but it does the job pucca.

You can get cheap ones such as http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-pc-PIPE-FLA...item3a6380b91f but i have tried using these before and they leave a horrible seal lol, but will generally do the trick.

So long as it does the job, I'm happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

Use a pipe bending tool. It's quite easy kink the copper then you're back to square one.

Flaring tool dude. You need it there to allow the union to push the brake pipe against the connection forming a seal between the unions. Technically its not really flared, it's more like rolled back on itself ever so slightly.

The union joins all the separate pipes together at said union, correct?
Also, worth while doing all the other brake pipes whilst I'm there for peace of mind? I'm guessing the answer here is going to be a yes.

Appreciate the help

5th April 2011, 21:02

when ive been to my local car spares shop for brake pipes they charged about £1.20 a foot plus 50p per union fitting.

Hope this helps.

Chris..

5th April 2011, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris_VTR

when ive been to my local car spares shop for brake pipes they charged about £1.20 a foot plus 50p per union fitting.

Hope this helps.

Chris..

Is this to have them flared too? If that's the case, I will make a few calls tomorrow, to save me the arse ache of buying tools ect...

5th April 2011, 21:37

Copper piping is shaped very easy but as said, be gentle with it or it will kink.

The place I use doesnt really have any fixed prices.. it's always a 'few quid' or a 'fiver'.

I got one of the front to rear pipes - think it was 81 inch for a fiver, flared with the unions on. Although I had to buy a 12mm one for the rear because they only had standard 10mm ones.

12mm x 1mm Male Brake Pipe Nuts for 3/16 Pipe x 5p

5th April 2011, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

Copper piping is shaped very easy but as said, be gentle with it or it will kink.

The place I use doesnt really have any fixed prices.. it's always a 'few quid' or a 'fiver'.

I got one of the front to rear pipes - think it was 81 inch for a fiver, flared with the unions on. Although I had to buy a 12mm one for the rear because they only had standard 10mm ones.

12mm x 1mm Male Brake Pipe Nuts for 3/16 Pipe x 5p

Cool, thanks for the tips and links to the various bits I will need

I'm gonna replace the lot, but do them one at a time, so I don't have the problem you had of remembering where each brake line goes, IIRC?

5th April 2011, 21:53

I just replaced the whole braking system on my old saxo! that is why it is sat at the bottom of my driveway saying FOR SALE, i wish you luck in doing the work, hopefully the new Saxo wont have the same problem!

5th April 2011, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris_VTR

when ive been to my local car spares shop for brake pipes they charged about £1.20 a foot plus 50p per union fitting.

Hope this helps.

Chris..

Yeah, this is to have them flared/completley made up. Just a case of u bending to shape and fitting.

Sometimes they just say give as a fiver etc as i vitually live there. Lol...

5th April 2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmartha

I just replaced the whole braking system on my old saxo! that is why it is sat at the bottom of my driveway saying FOR SALE, i wish you luck in doing the work, hopefully the new Saxo wont have the same problem!

Lol, cheers for the good luck. I have spend way too much time, effort and money on getting my car to this stage to pack it in now. Just hope the problems lay off for a while, got a few more things to tackle. Not to mention my MOT is due soon. I need a break from car things to get saving for my holiday!

5th April 2011, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

I'm gonna replace the lot, but do them one at a time, so I don't have the problem you had of remembering where each brake line goes, IIRC?

Dont 4get to rope a mate in 2 help ya bleed the system once complete.

Hope all goes to plan

5th April 2011, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris_VTR

Yeah, this is to have them flared/completley made up. Just a case of u bending to shape and fitting.

Sometimes they just say give as a fiver etc as i vitually live there. Lol...

Sweet, thanks for that mate. And is it just a generic local car spares shop to go to?

And as for bleeding the system, I will be getting a mate, no doubt I will owe him some more beer tokens lol.

5th April 2011, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielT92

I'm gonna replace the lot, but do them one at a time, so I don't have the problem you had of remembering where each brake line goes, IIRC?

Rear Brake Bias Valve - What goes where?

Yeah that was a nightmare

Write them down before you even start

5th April 2011, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrage_uk

Rear Brake Bias Valve - What goes where?

Yeah that was a nightmare

Write them down before you even start

That's the one lol, I remember reading that thinking I hope I don't have to do that sometime soon, how the table has turned lol. Cheers for the tips again

6th May 2011, 23:41

Just to update the thread. After waiting for various bits and bobs in the wonders of the postal system, I have made my brake lines, and they are all in my car in place. However, as I read in this thread previously, the hand tool for making the flares, is hard to get a good quality finish. Going to pop down to a garage tomorrow to see if they can flare them for me. Any idea on cost?