Overheating VTS

  1. #1
    Hit a bit of a brick wall with my overheating VTS, so to avoid confusion I thought I'd get a list up of what I have and haven't ruled out so far, so I can hopefully get to the bottom of this.

    Basically in short, the problem is that the coolant guage stays right down on cold for 1-2 minutes (whether the car is being driven or just sitting stationary) and then will go from cold all the way into the red (from one extreme to the other, with no gradual warming or anything) and the coolant light will come on, along with the fan.

    During this time, the radiator doesn't feel either cold or overly hot - just very slightly warm and then gradually getting warmer along similar lines to how you'd usually expect. I'm thinking this therefore means the fan is basically being tricked into thinking it should be coming on by something, when it actually doesn't need to be. Is it possible for the fan-switch to be backwardly affecting the temperature guage? Seems unlikely?

    I've done a compression test to check the headgasket, and it came back as a healthy 220-225psi across all 4 cylinders, fairly sure that a blown headgasket would put at least one of the cylinders out is that correct?

    The car is also running poorly on and off and has a bit of trouble starting, although this is quite likely to be an unrelated problem and due to a faulty coilpack according the diagnostics check I did before the MOT, but as far as I'm aware the coilpack can't affect the cooling system, so is unlikely to be having a knock-on effect?

    I've also fully flushed, bled and changed the coolant at least 3 times. As I'm using a 2L bottle and tape as a header tank though, I'm slightly concerned that air is being sucked into the cooling system through the seal of tape between the radiator filler and the bottle, how likely do people think this is? My Citroen dealer look at me like I'm an idiot when I asked for the official header tank to fill the radiator with the proper seals and things.

    If you ignore the running poorly as a seperate fault, then almost all things point towards the Dash Temperature sensor. For those unaware the VTS has one temperature sensor for the ECU which could easily cause poor running but doesn't affect the guage, and another sensor for the dash which would affect the guage, but can't make the car run poorly?

    Since it's very unlikely both sensors have gone at the same time, if the poor running is down to the first sensor, then it's very unlikely that it could also affect the guage. And if the faulty guage is down to the second sensor, then it's very unlikely the first sensor is causing the car to run poorly, unless it happens that air is getting into the system via the tape/bottle when I fill it and they're both reading an airlock?

    Although saying that, I would have thought had it been that there was an airlock or that the waterpump wasn't pressurizing/circulating the water properly that it would still warm in a linear fashion on the temperature guage (but obviously much faster than usual) whereas this goes straight from cold to boiling in a click of the fingers and after almost 2 minutes.

    Anyway to be thorough and because they're cheap, I've got a new thermostat and both new coolant temperature sensors ready to put in, as well as a waterpump waiting in the wings should that not work, so we'll be able to see what happens then.

    Should I be looking into electrical earths and connections? - battery, alternator, ECU plugs, dash plugs etc? Is there anything that could be affecting any of the electrical bits in the cooling system and not anything else (all the other guages are fine).
  2. #2
    Sounds like an airlock, what do you mean with this tape?
  3. #3
    Basically to get the coolant level above the bleed points on the Saxo you need to use an expansion tank so that air isn't sucked back in via the bleed points.

    Citroen do sell this as other members of the site have bought one, yet my Citroen dealer don't seem to acknowledge the existence of one.

    Therefore you have to make a DIY tank - basically involving cutting the bottom off a 2L bottle, and then using it upside down as a filler tank. Only problem being since it's obviously not designed to do that you've got leaks between the 2L bottle and the radiator filler tank. If the tape isn't working correctly I'm basically wondering if air could be getting into the coolant that way?
  4. #4
    I normally just use the bleed points, your way seems very long winded and strange..
  5. #5
    I've never used a tank, why not just use the bleed points like you're meant to lol.
  6. #6
    Sounds ike the thermostat is fucked? Mine went straight into the red with the temp light on when my thermostat wouldn't open properly, changed it and rebled and all was good?
  7. #7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MunkyBoy View Post
    Sounds ike the thermostat is fucked? Mine went straight into the red with the temp light on when my thermostat wouldn't open properly, changed it and rebled and all was good?
    It doesn't sound like he's bleeding it properly though Mat, does it to you?
  8. #8
    Not trying to sound like a bellend, but any guide you read - whether on here, Haynes or whatever says with the Saxo, because it doesn't have a remote expansion tank you need a filler bottle to get the coolant level above the bleed points. It's simple common sense and physics my friend.

    If you just fill the radiator bottle to the top, then open the dustcap valve or the thermostat housing valve, absolutely nothing will come out of it because it's higher than the radiator bottle. And worse than that, air will also be sucked straight into the system via those bleed points.

    I fully agree you can bleed the radiator valve if you're only filling via the radiator bottle since it's a lot lower, but what you're saying is impossible matey, and is a sure-fire way to get air in the system.

    My question is regarding the level of air-tightness that tape provides and whether it's likely that air could be getting in via the tape seal.
  9. #9
    You do know you need the engine running to bleed it fully, right? Lol.
  10. #10
    I always start the engine, open the heater dust cap valve, put the revs at about 1,500ish and let all the air come out, then water will just come out, then close that and go to the thermostat valve, do the same, then add your coolant, when you see coolant coming out with the water on both valves (One at a time) close them both and you're done.
  11. #11
    You do realise you're bleeding the valves in the wrong order, right? Lol. Lowest to highest, therefore the dustcap valve is the last valve you should bleed...

    Yes obviously the engine should be running otherwise the airlocks aren't going to be pushed out, I am not an idiot.

    Your methods sounds a bit half-arsed to me, if it's so outrageous or pointless to use a filler bottle, then why the f*ck would both of these guys recommend doing it:

    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98877

    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...coolant+change

    As well as the Haynes manual.

    I mean I appreciate the help mate don't get me wrong, but not the being spoken to like a five year old.
  12. #12
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by -Dan- View Post
    You do realise you're bleeding the valves in the wrong order, right? Lol. Lowest to highest, therefore the dustcap valve is the last valve you should bleed...

    Yes obviously the engine should be running otherwise the airlocks aren't going to be pushed out, I am not an idiot.

    Your methods sounds a bit half-arsed to me, if it's so outrageous or pointless to use a filler bottle, then why the f*ck would both of these guys recommend doing it:

    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98877

    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...coolant+change

    As well as the Haynes manual.

    Alright man, you seem quite annoyed I'm only trying to help.


    I know lowest to highest is normal, but I do it that way because it works also, and I know they say use the bottle, I looked at them when I first needed to bleed my rad a few years ago.

    I was telling you my way to try and help you out, give it a try, it works, I have helped many people including Munkeyboy with this method and it takes 5mins, job done.

    Sorry if I came across pushy...
  13. #13
    No that's fine mate, I do appreciate the help it's just everyone on here seems to talk to you like you're some little kid, I'm sorry for getting on your back.

    Yeah OK I may as well give your method a try, but I'm not massively convinced it's an airlock to blame, it could be the thermostat like Munkyboy said or either of the sensors.

    Thanks for the help anyway buddy, muchly appreciated.
  14. #14
    Ahh you're welcome, It's my fault I'm often blunt, don't mean it however lol

    And yeh, my method works I always use it, 5mins, job done.

    As for the Thermostat, before you bleed it, why not test it to see if it opens?
  15. #15
    never used a header bottle to fill a saxo coolant system as yet, never needed to tbh.
  16. #16
    Agreed with the not using a header bottle, I've done a few now and haven't used one.

    As long as there is no air, doesn't matter which method is used! Me and bike kid done my last car using that method after changing my rad and it was perfect. Personally? Still think it'd the thermostat if it just shoots up quickly into the red, it's exactly what mine did when my thermostat fucked.

    Change thermostat, rebleed using our method see how that is.
  17. #17
    Any luck yet mate?