Important! : Im doing my engine conversion need help NO SPARK?!**** NOW FIXED BIG THANKS TO ECUREPAIR SEE PAGE 3****

1. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

   #1 21st May 2011, 22:15

   Hi guys.........
   
   
   
   
   
   i really need some help on this one!! ok... im doing engine conversion VTR (03 /3plug) to a (VTS 51 3plug)
   
   
   
   ok we have fuel going the to engine and the engine will turn over but there is no spark! i was told the ECU was unlocked if the ECU was locked would it still let the fuel pump prime???????? but not let it spark?
   so i was thinking it mite be the coil pack so we cut the plug of the VTR coil pack to see if we could get that to spark but still no?
   
   i have taken the transponder box out of the car as well
   
   
   
   please help me out thanks.
2. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

   #2 21st May 2011, 22:28

   crank sensor is a possibility
3. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

   #3 21st May 2011, 22:29

   I doubt your issues are caused by anythin you have stated. Are you sayin that literally u turn the key and nothin happens?
4. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

   #4 21st May 2011, 22:40

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by mandyslover70 crank sensor is a possibility

   we put the crank from the old VTR engine on there still did not work?
   
   
   
   

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by 666saxo666 I doubt your issues are caused by anythin you have stated. Are you sayin that literally u turn the key and nothin happens?

   
   no turn the key pump primes and then the engine turns over but dose not start
5. carlsmith715 Established Member Joined: Nov 2010 manchester Posts: 2099 2000 1.6 furio

   #5 21st May 2011, 22:49

   is an unlocked ecu as i read somewere that the ecu controls the spark
6. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

   #6 21st May 2011, 22:53

   Ah i see i thought literally nothin was hapennin.
   I think the pump would still prime regardless of the ecu.
   Like you say the posibilities are the ecu not bein unlocked or the coilpack is playin up. Have you checked the wiring to the coilpack?
7. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

   #7 21st May 2011, 23:04

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by 666saxo666 Ah i see i thought literally nothin was hapennin. I think the pump would still prime regardless of the ecu. Like you say the posibilities are the ecu not bein unlocked or the coilpack is playin up. Have you checked the wiring to the coilpack?

   yea when you turn the key there is power the the coil pack 12V but no spark,
   so we tryed the VTR coil pack just to try get a spark but there still wasent one
8. andmay1993 Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 stockton-on-tees Posts: 127 1.1 is now a vtr

   #8 21st May 2011, 23:10

   im having the same problem it could be the:
   coil pack
   plugs
   bad earth
9. Krys_23 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6543

   #9 21st May 2011, 23:12

   I'm going with crank sensor also, i had the same problem.
10. 666saxo666 Regular Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 420

    #10 21st May 2011, 23:24

    if you are sure the ecu is unlocked. and you are gettin a readin from the coil pack. the thing likely to stop it firing is the crank sensor as peeps have said.
11. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #11 21st May 2011, 23:24

    Have you tried some code reading? If the ECU is locked the fuel pump will still prime but the coil won't be pulsed hence no spark.
    
    As other members say it could be crankshaft sensor but I would try code reading with diagnostic machine so it points you in the right direction.
    
    Regards.
    Daniel.
12. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #12 21st May 2011, 23:26

    changed the crank sensor earths are all fine as i checked them and used a jump lead from the battery to the block to double i need to get another vts coil pack to double check but i did wire in the vtr one and still didnt work. i was just reading that apparently theres some wires 2 or 3 one is blue as far as i read and there ment to go to +12v does any one know about these?
13. Krys_23 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6543

    #13 22nd May 2011, 00:38

    Is the vtr crank sensor the same as a gti one? I dont recall them being similar but i could be wrong, if its not in tightly and correctly it wont run, let alone if the wires to it are split
14. user_52013 Established Member Joined: Apr 2011 Birmingham Posts: 2079 Clio

    #14 22nd May 2011, 02:56

    I disagree, I would say ECU or even possibly ICV
15. Krys_23 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6543

    #15 22nd May 2011, 03:01

    How the hell would the icv control the spark? LOL
16. user_52013 Established Member Joined: Apr 2011 Birmingham Posts: 2079 Clio

    #16 22nd May 2011, 03:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Krys_23 How the hell would the icv control the spark? LOL

    You'd be suprised mate, we had a redtop in the other day, turning over but no spark. Crank sensor (no) Coolant temp sensor (no) Ecu (no) Fuel Relay (No) turns out it was the ICV, i have no idea why but it worked. But to be honest i'd put money on the Ecu
17. tom_lloyd_4 Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2010 alton hampshire Posts: 348 97 mk1 vtr 85 LR 90

    #17 22nd May 2011, 03:30

    as no one has asked yet when you turn the key to the second click do you get a key shaped light come up on the dash iirc will be flashing if so meens your ecu is locked
    hope thishelps Tom
18. Krys_23 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6543

    #18 22nd May 2011, 11:00

    even when the icv is disconnected it it still fires on a 16v engine i know as i was playing with my engine last night..
19. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #19 22nd May 2011, 11:28

    can anyone come down with your 3 plug vts and HELP ME! i will pay you, i just wana try the ECU and coil pack please!
20. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #20 22nd May 2011, 12:31

    Hi,
    
    Laurence if you want I can send you an unlocked ECU so you can try with it, let me know the part number of the ecu, and email me your address my email: ecurepair.co.uk@gmail.com
    
    regards
21. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #21 22nd May 2011, 12:36

    do you have a contact number mate just makes it easier cheers
22. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #22 22nd May 2011, 13:17

    I try no to be on the phone on Sunday but OK it is 07762793116.
23. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #23 22nd May 2011, 14:54

    ok i will call you know cheers mate i really appreciate you helping
24. Blxck Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2009 Middlesbrough Posts: 296 MKV Golf GTi

    #24 22nd May 2011, 15:07

    i had a similer sort of problem, the problem was i plugged the crank sensor into a plug which had the matching end if that makes sense, make sure the crank sensor is plugged into the crank plug, im sure there colour coded ends
25. ryanmt Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5

    #25 22nd May 2011, 16:52

    Is the ecu powering up ok, do you get the orange k on the dash?
    
    the 3 plug ecus have a feedback to the ecu so your vtr one may not be swappable.
    
    Does the fuel pump run whilst cranking?
26. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #26 22nd May 2011, 17:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ryanmt Is the ecu powering up ok, do you get the orange k on the dash? the 3 plug ecus have a feedback to the ecu so your vtr one may not be swappable. Does the fuel pump run whilst cranking?

    ok im not sure about the ecu and i dont have an orange k on the dash also the engine management light is on but i thought this might be because i dont have the lambda sensors in, i have put the whole vts engine loom in and ecu and engine from all from the same car but my old vtr ecu is bosch and the new vts is magnetti marrelli the guy told me the ecu was unlocked but im not sure if it is i have 12v to the coil pack when cranking but i dont have another coil pack to try also i took the injector rail out and when cranking the injectors are squirting also the pump primes and also runs when cranking
    any help appreciated cheers
27. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #27 22nd May 2011, 19:54

    Hi Laurence,
    
    If the injectors are squirting while cranking over the engine then the ECU is UNLOCKED, you problem may be down to the coil pack as you are thinking, you could check if the ECU is triggering the coil pack but you would need a multimeter able to measure Hertz otherwise you won't be able to, so best guess is you trying a coil pack, try getting one from the breakers they normally sell them pretty cheap.
    
    Regards
    Daniel.
28. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #28 22nd May 2011, 21:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ecurepair Hi Laurence, If the injectors are squirting while cranking over the engine then the ECU is UNLOCKED, you problem may be down to the coil pack as you are thinking, you could check if the ECU is triggering the coil pack but you would need a multimeter able to measure Hertz otherwise you won't be able to, so best guess is you trying a coil pack, try getting one from the breakers they normally sell them pretty cheap. Regards Daniel.

    ok cheers mate im trying a coil pack tonight off a running car so will let you know does anyone else have anything they can share cheers again
29. carlsmith715 Established Member Joined: Nov 2010 manchester Posts: 2099 2000 1.6 furio

    #29 22nd May 2011, 21:15

    could you not just take the coil pack out and put a spark plug in to the ends and see if it sparks if it sparks then its something else if you know what im saying
30. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #30 22nd May 2011, 21:51

    Carlsmith715, no he can't do that, the spark needs a high voltage created by the coil pack so a spark is produced, he could do use something else as a LED which would illuminate every time the ECU sends the pulse but it is a bit more involve than that so best to try another coil pack ;-)
31. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #31 22nd May 2011, 22:33

    right tried another coil pack and it did not start, i put my coil pack on my mates car and his car started so now im stuck. The injectors are firing but no spark, changed the coil and the crank sensor, any help appreciated
32. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #32 22nd May 2011, 23:27

    If the injectors are working but the coil isn't that may be then a wiring or an ECU fault, thus just to make sure that the injectors are been triggered, crank over the engine few times and remove a spark plug and make sure it is wet of fuel.
    
    Regards
33. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #33 22nd May 2011, 23:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ecurepair If the injectors are working but the coil isn't that may be then a wiring or an ECU fault, thus just to make sure that the injectors are been triggered, crank over the engine few times and remove a spark plug and make sure it is wet of fuel. Regards

    well i took out the fuel rail and injectors and got some one to crank it and i saw the fuel squirtung from the injectors so there ok now maybe a ecu or wiring fault like you said any other suggestions cheers
34. tom_lloyd_4 Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2010 alton hampshire Posts: 348 97 mk1 vtr 85 LR 90

    #34 23rd May 2011, 02:24

    The ecu controls the ground side of the coil pack and as far as I no the imob only disables the spark as the fuel pump is powered threw the multi relay under the ecu tray I woud say that your ecu is locked mate
35. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #35 23rd May 2011, 11:47

    ok i have multi metered the earth from the coil to the ecu and there was resistance so i ran a new wire but nothing happened still so i dont understand so the injectors are firing and no spark im really confused on this one maybe i will have to try a new loom and ecu
36. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #36 23rd May 2011, 11:47

    Laurence do you know what is the engine code from the new engine? So I can try to get a wiring diagram to let you know the ECU pin which triggers the coil.
    
    I don't think the ECU is locked as for safety reason there is not point of triggering the injectors when there is not spark, if this would be the case you would just get the cylinders and exhaust full of fuel definitely not very save. Therefore I wanted Laurence to get a spark plug out just to make sure.
37. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #37 23rd May 2011, 11:52

    the plugs are wet i just checked i will find the engine code in a minute does the egr pump have any control as it is not plugged in atm but i have tried it and it did not work
38. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #38 23rd May 2011, 11:53

    Ok cool, no egr won't matter.
39. tasher666 L-plater Joined: Sep 2009 manchester Posts: 48 vtr mk1 (blue) vtr mk1 (silver)

    #39 23rd May 2011, 12:38

    chech the earths that are on the gear box thats the problem i had wif mine n i was checkin coil paks, spark plugs, my ecu and all sorts ... n litrely was moving a wire on to the eathing point about 2cm away
40. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #40 23rd May 2011, 12:40

    i have checked the earths an run a jump leap direct from battery to block im still thinking ecu or wiring loom any body got any other ideas i apreciate all your help

    1 user thanked this post: lil_rascal
41. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #41 23rd May 2011, 12:46

    im geussing my engine number is TU5J4, i cannot find it on the block but it was from a vts any ideas
    
    if you could find me a wiring diagram ecu repair that would be great thanks
42. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #42 23rd May 2011, 13:23

    anyone?
43. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #43 23rd May 2011, 14:23

    is there any way using a multimeter to check if the ecu is locked
44. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #44 23rd May 2011, 14:42

    ok i just read that i have to use a vts crank sensor on a vts loom and i got the box from a 106 gti with the crank sensor attatched has any one ever herd of this problem before?
45. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #45 23rd May 2011, 17:44

    ok so i bought a vts crank sensor and guess what it still didnt work no spark but theres a ecu and loom i am gunna buy the guy said it was unlocked by blue hawk this is now the last option if this doesnt work i really dont have a clue
    
    cheers guys
46. raunchz Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R

    #46 24th May 2011, 07:10

    I'd try a different unlocked Ecu.
    
    Have you cut-up the coilpack wires as part of trying to get it to work? I'd double check the wiring is all correct.
    
    How do you know it's not sparking?
    
    Do you have compression?
47. andmay1993 Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 stockton-on-tees Posts: 127 1.1 is now a vtr

    #47 24th May 2011, 12:47

    how do i check to see if i am getting a spark ? what procedures do i take ?
    im having the same problem
48. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #48 24th May 2011, 22:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by raunchz I'd try a different unlocked Ecu. Have you cut-up the coilpack wires as part of trying to get it to work? I'd double check the wiring is all correct. How do you know it's not sparking? Do you have compression?

    yea we have compression and fuel going in to the engine we took the coil pack out and put a plug in and held it close to the block but no spark?
49. user_48591 Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2010 Dundee Posts: 227 Silver Mk2 VeeTeeEhr

    #49 26th May 2011, 00:24

    check the output voltage from the coilpack with no sparkplug in?
50. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #50 26th May 2011, 00:26

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ian-bru check the output voltage from the coilpack with no sparkplug in?

    but it would be way to high!!!
51. user_48591 Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2010 Dundee Posts: 227 Silver Mk2 VeeTeeEhr

    #51 26th May 2011, 00:29

    it wont be drawing enough current to kill you!!
52. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #52 26th May 2011, 00:32

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ian-bru it wont be drawing enough current to kill you!!

    how much power dose it take to make a spark? its not the coil pack anyway as i have tryed it on a nuver saxo
53. user_48591 Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2010 Dundee Posts: 227 Silver Mk2 VeeTeeEhr

    #53 26th May 2011, 00:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by laurence how much power dose it take to make a spark? its not the coil pack anyway as i have tryed it on a nuver saxo

    if its not the coil pack then just go backwards from there. try checkingvoltage at the connector on the input lead.
54. laurence Frequent Poster Joined: May 2009 south west Posts: 798 03 black vtr :) RB FF 182

    #54 28th May 2011, 23:35

    hello
    
    
    i got the car sorted now all thanks to ecurepair he sent me a 3plug unlocked ecu to test out and thats what it was so if you was having the same problems..........
    
    
    engine will turn over
    EML is on
    fuel pump is priming
    no spark
    power going in to the coil pack but still no spark
    
    
    its that your ECU is not unlocked.
    
    this guy can help......
    
    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/member.php?u=52180
    
    
    http://www.ecurepair.co.uk/
    
    THANKS!
55. tom_lloyd_4 Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2010 alton hampshire Posts: 348 97 mk1 vtr 85 LR 90

    #55 29th May 2011, 02:49

    sorry but told you this in the second page and all saxos have the eml on befor starting the flashing key symbol on your dash would give it away and (ecurepair) should not be advertising like that with out being Affiliate member but anyways nice to no that me bothering to help was appreciated thanks tom
56. user_52013 Established Member Joined: Apr 2011 Birmingham Posts: 2079 Clio

    #56 29th May 2011, 14:08

    To be honest on page 1, i did say i'd put money on the ECU, but glad you've got it sorted.
57. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #57 29th May 2011, 14:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by laurence hello i got the car sorted now all thanks to ecurepair he sent me a 3plug unlocked ecu to test out and thats what it was so if you was having the same problems.......... engine will turn over EML is on fuel pump is priming no spark power going in to the coil pack but still no spark its that your ECU is not unlocked. this guy can help...... http://www.saxperience.com/forum/member.php?u=52180 http://www.ecurepair.co.uk/ THANKS!

    Its kind of obvious with those symptoms that it was the ECU lol
58. ecurepair Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 110

    #58 29th May 2011, 16:19

    It was a tricky one but we got there, glad I was of some help, thank you!