car has just broken down :( Now with video. Picture of ecu.

11th June 2011, 13:09

At the side of the road at the moment....

Engine management light appeared all power went and it stopped.

Tried starting it and nothing.

Checked fuel cut off and that had tripped so i pressed it.

Tried starting again and it fires for a few seconds and cuts out again.

So i have no ideas.

All help appreciated please please please

Car has a 2003 VTS conversion with no immobiliser.

11th June 2011, 13:30

i love how your first call of action is ask on sax-p!

11th June 2011, 13:33

You not with AA or Greenflag???

11th June 2011, 13:34

Does it rev when it starts?

11th June 2011, 13:35

alternator sounds like mate

11th June 2011, 13:45

Yep,take ur alt out and get it tested mate

11th June 2011, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonto_VTR

i love how your first call of action is ask on sax-p!

I thought that would be the best place to ask lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickyWelsh1984

You not with AA or Greenflag???

Nope unfortunately abit silly when i own something french.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Does it rev when it starts?

Nope nothing, it starts and dies, press the pedal and i get nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaughan06

alternator sounds like mate

But surely if it was the alternator i wouldn't be able to keep starting it?

Would a temp sensor be at fault? Lambda sensor faulty?

11th June 2011, 14:00

Yeah you're managing to start it from the charge left in the battery.. then it's dying from having no charge left and the alternator isn't charging the battery up. That's my idea anyway. Kwickfit does a free alt/battery check so if you can get your car there, should help

11th June 2011, 14:04

I'd really like to hear it to work out what's wrong. Are you still at the road?
Is it possible to get a Video?

I can't see it being a Temp Sensor, It'll run with no Lambda also.

Is your air filter blocked?
Try taking the filter from your Throttle Body, check it's clear and try and start it.

Another thing, if you have fuel, it could be a blocked Fuel filter...

What does it sound like when it starts?
Is it limp, or does it sound normal, but then dies?

11th June 2011, 14:06

could be alternator or battery cell shorting/dead so wont charge. quickfit need the car runnning to do a alternator check jsut like halfords

11th June 2011, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnelson

could be alternator or battery cell shorting/dead so wont charge. quickfit need the car runnning to do a alternator check jsut like halfords

You need the car running to check it anyway

Hmm, Still need to know what it sounds like in order to work it out really...

11th June 2011, 14:18

not at the side of the road anymore unfortunatly, the car sounds perfectly normal when it starts up, but just cuts out.
My brothers got a jump pack so will go up there with that and see if it runs for longer off that, if it does will take a multimeter up and see if its charging, fuel filter sounds like a possibility as it was run low on fuel yesterday. will let you know when i go back up there later.

thanks.

11th June 2011, 17:15

Tried a jump pack, no joy.
However I got a video of what it does.

Hopefully that works.

11th June 2011, 18:59

That to me sounds like a fuelling problem.

Is the pump priming under the back seat when you turn the key to no.2?

11th June 2011, 19:14

Hmm, sounds like a fueling problem, as Kris said.

Try holding the throttle half way down when you start it.

Or, spray some brake cleaner in the Throttle body, or petrol and then start it, it it starts you have a fueling problem

11th June 2011, 19:21

Yep it primes. There's plenty of fuel coming out of the pipe I took it off and checked.

I have just changed,

Crank position
Idle control valve
Throttle position

Just to eliminate them. MAP sensor a possibility?

Last week I plumbed in the fuel return by unplugging the fuel in pipe on the pump and running a pipe to the return in the bay. But the pipe taken off the pump is just sitting there but I'm not sure what it does but im guessing its reduntant as its from the fpr on the tank?.

11th June 2011, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleman258

MAP sensor a possibility?

Could be, unplug it and try it.

It will run without it, just not very well

11th June 2011, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Could be, unplug it and try it.

It will run without it, just not very well

Still wont run with that unplugged.

The thing the pump is priming and i'm getting alot of fuel come out when i turn the ignition, it fires just cuts out straight away.

A blocked fuel filter wouldnt cause this i don't think, And i doubt the coilpack would stop sparking randomly.

11th June 2011, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleman258

, And i doubt the coilpack would stop sparking randomly.

Well, that was my next point, they can, and quite often do

Once they break up inside, they'll either slowly go by just misfiring under load, and when hot, or they'll go suddenly and can do what yous is doing.

What I'd say do is ask a mate to borrow theirs, or if you have no mates with a VTS, try and find one/buy one because it's a simple thing to change over and if it is that, it'll save you a lot of time and money you may spend trying to fix other things that aren't broken lol.

11th June 2011, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Well, that was my next point, they can, and quite often do

Once they break up inside, they'll either slowly go by just misfiring under load, and when hot, or they'll go suddenly and can do what yous is doing.

What I'd say do is ask a mate to borrow theirs, or if you have no mates with a VTS, try and find one/buy one because it's a simple thing to change over and if it is that, it'll save you a lot of time and money you may spend trying to fix other things that aren't broken lol.

I will try and source one of those, im guessing they are quite expensive new arn't they?

Cheers for all your help pal very much appreciated

11th June 2011, 20:19

I'm not sure if it makes any difference but when it conked out i was on some nice B roads doing some spirited driving lol...

11th June 2011, 20:21

Haha, if you'd have blown it up it would be making some pretty nasty noises when you crank it...

When it dyed, did it cough and splutter, or just die and that was it?

11th June 2011, 20:36

Will it started to slow down and was wondering what was going on put my foot down and there was nothing and then it just went.

Would i be able to test the coilpack has gone by taking it and the plugs out and putting them on the head?

11th June 2011, 20:40

Yeh you can do, if they spark then it is working, but we know they will be sparking because it fires for a few seconds.

You can crank it for 10-20 seconds and see if they all keep sparking for that long.

It'll give you an idea anyway

11th June 2011, 20:42

Let me know how it goes, I'll be back later to see what's happened

Good luck

12th June 2011, 14:40

Tried a spare coilpack i had lying around the ht lead type and no joy with that it still does the same thing so im lost.

Not sure what difference it makes but the engine came with Kent pt51 cams and I have a receipt showing the standard Ecu was mapped to suit?

Ecu fubared?

Any more ideas?

12th June 2011, 15:36

Have you checked the timing aswell, have seen cars that jump a tooth and dont run, also without hitting valves, are you getting a constant spark from the coilpack?

12th June 2011, 15:52

If you have spark and fuel, then I'd try a different ECU.

12th June 2011, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeVTR

Have you checked the timing aswell, have seen cars that jump a tooth and dont run, also without hitting valves, are you getting a constant spark from the coilpack?

Well i tried a differenct coilpack and it still done the same thing.

Timing may be something i have to look into.

12th June 2011, 17:04

Yeah its worth a look, especially if you were driving a bit enthusiastically, as this is when the timing belt is most likely to jump, hope that is all it is

12th June 2011, 17:13

If it's slipped a tooth i wouldn't of thought it would fire up though?

12th June 2011, 17:20

fuel filter, try it first

12th June 2011, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxostuart

fuel filter, try it first

I've taken the fuel pipe of and turned it over and plenty is gushing out.

12th June 2011, 17:26

yeah, some engine's will run but missfire and have power loss, others may start for 2 seconds and cut straight out, as its still getting air, fuel and spark, just not at the right time to get enough compression to carry on running. Chances are its something else, but its definatly worth a look before moving on to the ecu being the issue

i assume the wiring to all the sensors are ok and not chaffed through, have seen crank sensors with damaged wiring, and they have fitted new parts and ruled the sensor out without checking the wiring first.

12th June 2011, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeVTR

yeah, some engine's will run but missfire and have power loss, others may start for 2 seconds and cut straight out, as its still getting air, fuel and spark, just not at the right time to get enough compression to carry on running. Chances are its something else, but its definatly worth a look before moving on to the ecu being the issue

i assume the wiring to all the sensors are ok and not chaffed through, have seen crank sensors with damaged wiring, and they have fitted new parts and ruled the sensor out without checking the wiring first.

I will have a check. But im pretty sure the wiring is all ok as its all sleeved and out of the way but again i should try having an indepth look. cheers for the help.

12th June 2011, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleman258

I will have a check. But im pretty sure the wiring is all ok as its all sleeved and out of the way but again i should try having an indepth look. cheers for the help.

no problem, post up if u find anything, would be interested to know

12th June 2011, 18:25

Just popped out to the car, took the cambelt cover of to look at the cambelt and this is what i can see,

Not sure how well you can see but does that look abit to slack?

The cams line up on the timing marks however i haven't checked its on TDC as its raining.

The tensioner could be tightened up easily so it may of worked it's way loose causing a tooth to slip maybe?

12th June 2011, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleman258

If it's slipped a tooth i wouldn't of thought it would fire up though?

It could do, depending how far the timing is out

12th June 2011, 21:38

I always time my Engines with a little less than a half turn on the belt, I've not had a problem yet. Some do them tight as they can, but that will kill the belt and bearings faster.

Looks like you may be able to tighten yours a little more

12th June 2011, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

I always time my Engines with a little less than a half turn on the belt, I've not had a problem yet. Some do them tight as they can, but that will kill the belt and bearings faster.

Looks like you may be able to tighten yours a little more

I put a socket on the tensioner and i could tighten it up quite easily so i think it may of worked its way loose, i will put it at TDC tomorrow and see if the timing lines up.

12th June 2011, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleman258

I put a socket on the tensioner and i could tighten it up quite easily so i think it may of worked its way loose, i will put it at TDC tomorrow and see if the timing lines up.

Good plan my friend

I didn't see half of what you been saying lol I was on my phone...

13th June 2011, 01:08

yeah it might have slipped a tooth on the crank, belt definatly looks a bit slack

13th June 2011, 09:28

Any luck yet?

13th June 2011, 18:17

Cars at TDC so its not the timing,

Any reason the fpr would of failed? and is there a way of by passing it? ( i have an aftermarket one laying around)

Because im getting plenty of fuel out of the line but maybe not enough to the injectors.

13th June 2011, 19:00

I guess you could have something in your fuel rail... Unlikely though...

Were your plugs wet?

13th June 2011, 19:05

Just changed the fpr's round, and no joy still,

Thing is my plugs seemed pretty dry, but as you said the rail being blocked is very unlikely.

For some reason when i took the vtr fpr from the tank and put it on the rail, and put the vts one one there in place fuel started coming out of it, which never happened before.

13th June 2011, 19:07

Have you put any fuel into the Throttle body yet?

Or brake cleaner?

13th June 2011, 19:09

Don't over tighten the pulley there not much force anyways about 20-25nm, so it will feel loose hand tight on a socket.

Tried the crank sensor? but this may not allow it to fire at all...

13th June 2011, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by baker556

Don't over tighten the pulley there not much force anyways about 20-25nm, so it will feel loose hand tight on a socket.

Tried the crank sensor? but this may not allow it to fire at all...

Replaced that with the one from my vtr engine and still no joy.

13th June 2011, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Have you put any fuel into the Throttle body yet?

Or brake cleaner?

not yet, i havn't got any brake cleaner, how much fuel do you put in?

13th June 2011, 19:35

Just put some petrol in an old Washing up bottle, and open the butterfly and squirt it in, not a lot but a bout 1-2 seconds, then start it. If it runs, then you know it's a fuel blockage...

13th June 2011, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Just put some petrol in an old Washing up bottle, and open the butterfly and squirt it in, not a lot but a bout 1-2 seconds, then start it. If it runs, then you know it's a fuel blockage...

Do you do the same with brake cleaner? I have just gone and bought some of that and a fuel filter, another one to tick of the list lol.

13th June 2011, 19:40

Lol, the brake cleaner will be in a spray can right?

Just spray some in, try it, if nothing, try it with some more and if it has spark it WILL fire and run for a few seconds.

13th June 2011, 19:44

Or if there's 2 of you, one turn it over, the other open the butter fly and spray it in.

13th June 2011, 20:56

Right fuel filter change, sprayed brake cleaner in the throttle body and oh my she works,

So i have found the problem, im guetting fuel but the injectors arnt pumping, why is this?

13th June 2011, 21:02

is the immobilizer light on?

13th June 2011, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by seddon89

is the immobilizer light on?

sorry, wrong post

is there plenty pressure at the rail

13th June 2011, 21:09

How would i check? Im getting plenty of fuel out of the pipe i've put on a regulator i know is deffinately working.

13th June 2011, 21:15

take the pipe off the fuel rail an see if its got fuel to the top mate

13th June 2011, 21:29

I have got fuel up to it, just not in the rail, i will take the inlet off tomorrow and the rail off and see if im getting fuel through the injectors, either theyve stopped or they are clogged.

What voltage should i have to them?

13th June 2011, 22:01

Is there any plug some unplugged?

Seems very odd they all stop so randomly, normally it'll be one or two stop working lol.

14th June 2011, 12:59

So let me get this straight the car fires but doesn't idle or rev, have you checked timing belt? or cam position sensor if a 16V ? as this sound more like a sensor\timing issue under load and not a fueling issue the return pipe must be plumbed back to the tank by the way otherwise any fuel not returned with drain onto the road etc, also check for water ingress around or near the ECU in the engine bay whiskt your at it,have had a few with goosed ecu's comein over the past few months due to age of vehicles and milages

14th June 2011, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by S202FSC

So let me get this straight the car fires but doesn't idle or rev, have you checked timing belt? or cam position sensor if a 16V ? as this sound more like a sensor\timing issue under load and not a fueling issue the return pipe must be plumbed back to the tank by the way otherwise any fuel not returned with drain onto the road etc, also check for water ingress around or near the ECU in the engine bay whiskt your at it,have had a few with goosed ecu's comein over the past few months due to age of vehicles and milages

Yep basically.

Checked timing, for some reason the injectors arnt letting fuel through. That is the problem I have found. So i will get a multimetre on them tonight to check I'm getting power to them.

Pretty much changed all the sensors apart from map and the one at the beginning of the throttle body but will still run if there broken.

I'm guessing the inlet has to come off to get to the rail?

14th June 2011, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleman258

Yep basically.

Checked timing, for some reason the injectors arnt letting fuel through. That is the problem I have found. So i will get a multimetre on them tonight to check I'm getting power to them.

Pretty much changed all the sensors apart from map and the one at the beginning of the throttle body but will still run if there broken.

I'm guessing the inlet has to come off to get to the rail?

But what's confusing me is that it tries to idle\rev but the cut out, if injetors where faulty which i don't think they are then car wouldn't even try to idle\rev voltage drop or loss to injectors is not uncommon but usually 1 or 2, but not all 4 at same time, you said it ahd been remapped I'm wondering if it's a mapping issue, lost settings, but you tried a std ecu and still same, when you removed the fuel feed pipe at the fuel inlet, did the fuel come out under pressure as it should or normal ?

14th June 2011, 14:58

If it runs with fuel being put into the Throttle body then it's a fueling issue.

I'd check the rail, then work my way back to the ECU checking all wires and sensors.

It's got to be something silly as you've been through all the major things...

14th June 2011, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by S202FSC

But what's confusing me is that it tries to idle\rev but the cut out, if injetors where faulty which i don't think they are then car wouldn't even try to idle\rev voltage drop or loss to injectors is not uncommon but usually 1 or 2, but not all 4 at same time, you said it ahd been remapped I'm wondering if it's a mapping issue, lost settings, but you tried a std ecu and still same, when you removed the fuel feed pipe at the fuel inlet, did the fuel come out under pressure as it should or normal ?

I know im really wacking my brains over this its doing my head in.

I havnt tried another ecu Im really hoping it's not that as it's going to be hard to get hold of a 3 plug unlocked vts ecu.

I unplugged the fuel pipe in the bay and there was quite abit of pressure coming out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

If it runs with fuel being put into the Throttle body then it's a fueling issue.

I'd check the rail, then work my way back to the ECU checking all wires and sensors.

It's got to be something silly as you've been through all the major things...

I know i don't know what i have missed, i may try a new pump, i have a 1.1 and a 1.4 would those fuel pumps work?

14th June 2011, 18:10

Right plugs are bone dry so no fuel is getting in. Do the injectors have a separate loom,relay,fuses?

14th June 2011, 21:44

Im getting 12v to the injector plugs so im now saying the ecu must be fubared?

And the fuel pump is priming so it wouldn't be the injector relay under the ecu would it?

14th June 2011, 22:52

If memeory serves me right, ahve you checked the fuel pressure regulator as they ahve a rubber diaphram inside, and can eventually stop working not allowing fuel to pass through to injectors, test for fuel presure after regulator and let me know, i'll check something out in workshop in morning

14th June 2011, 23:13

I put the vtr one in the s rail because i know that is definately working and still the same problem.

14th June 2011, 23:13

ecu

had it on a vtr engine like you tried everything bar,then last thing wa ecu and it fired and ran

any 3 plug ecu woul do just to test it! i ran the vtr one0 on a1.1 ecu for a few days (actally ran fine after it had been ran for about 20 mins

14th June 2011, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_s

ecu

had it on a vtr engine like you tried everything bar,then last thing wa ecu and it fired and ran

any 3 plug ecu woul do just to test it! i ran the vtr one0 on a1.1 ecu for a few days (actally ran fine after it had been ran for about 20 mins

Apparently a vtr ecu wont run on a vts, but i do have a vtr unlocked ecu lying around, but maybe it might let abit of fuel in..

15th June 2011, 09:29

Yes any 3 plug will run it if it's unlocked. You just won't have much power

15th June 2011, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikekid450

Yes any 3 plug will run it if it's unlocked. You just won't have much power

Aslong as I can plug it and see if any fuel comes out thats all I need to check.

15th June 2011, 09:55

Haha yeh, no problem!

15th June 2011, 17:51

Think the problem has been found

the Ecu is fubared.

Plugged the vtr Ecu in with the injectors out and they spurted out fuel.

Got there in the end hopefully. i will update when i get the new ecu to see if its fixed

15th June 2011, 17:52

Wooo =]

26th June 2011, 11:48

Waiting on a new ecu so thought i would take the old one apart and looks all ok apart from this one spot, not sure if this is normal or not?

Also a picture of the ecu

4th July 2011, 18:39

Just tried another unlocked vts Ecu from a shop, and nope still exactly the same,

Also just plugged the vtr Ecu in and got it to sort of run,

I really am lost now to why the vts ones won't work, I can't of bought another Ecu with exactly the same problem.

6th July 2011, 07:56

Any ideas?

6th July 2011, 13:16

An Ecu can't lock itself again can it? Even though there is no Immobiliser?

6th July 2011, 17:08

Just skim read the thread again, so sorry if it's already been suggested, but have you tried changing the relay under the ECU?