Bigger brakes to accomadate Cams ?

1. Mansfield-Matthew-vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2010 Mansfield Posts: 105 Saxo VTS

   #1 19th June 2011, 20:05

   Looking at sticking in ph3 cams followed by a re-map would it be wise to up-grade to a 266mm brake set up or will standard brakes cope with the increased power?.
   
   Cheers Matt.
2. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #2 19th June 2011, 21:17

   you will be fine if you drive within the limits of your car. Upgrade to fast road pads for peace of mind but as long as you understand what you have then theres no danger.
3. vtrxstickens Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2010 whitstable, kent Posts: 618 diablo 106 gti

   #3 21st June 2011, 11:03

   if ur thinkin bigger brakes buy the 206 gti 180 front brakes they work a treat or even 306 gti-6 brakes
4. user_31637 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Isle of Man Posts: 9844 92 Eunos

   #4 21st June 2011, 11:40

   Always best to make it stop better before it goes quicker IMO.
5. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

   #5 21st June 2011, 11:54

   theres allways a trade off between weight and stopping forces
   
   The larger brakes put the force further from the hub (like a longer lever makes lifting easier its a similar principal) and being larger dissipate heat quicker but weigh more
   
   A higher friction material in the pad and disc combo will see similar results without the weight
6. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

   #6 21st June 2011, 11:54

   theres allways a trade off between weight and stopping forces
   
   The larger brakes put the force further from the hub (like a longer lever makes lifting easier its a similar principal) and being larger dissipate heat quicker but weigh more
   
   A higher friction material in the pad and disc combo will see similar results without the weight
7. Mansfield-Matthew-vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2010 Mansfield Posts: 105 Saxo VTS

   #7 21st June 2011, 18:47

   Think im going to go with 306 gti 6 setup on the fronts for some nice stopping power.
   Going to get the master cylinder as well so I’ve got no pedal travel, have you got to grind some of the corner for the callipers to fit I carn’t remember.
   
   Thanks.
8. user_21226 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2008 wirral Posts: 6348 Icelandic vtr turbo

   #8 21st June 2011, 18:50

   the gti180/gti-6 setup are stupid heavy, go for the 266 setup if your going bigger they dont weigh as much but do the job well
9. Mansfield-Matthew-vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2010 Mansfield Posts: 105 Saxo VTS

   #9 21st June 2011, 19:21

   What can I get those off??
10. stupotvtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 EDINBURGH Posts: 3143 BMW e36 328i sport

    #10 22nd June 2011, 11:15

    I would recommend 266s, I got then after 2 weeks of getting my vts cammed. I though standards were gash.
11. Dave_P Established Member Joined: Dec 2010 Aberdeen Posts: 2129 Race: 106 Rallye 16v. Road: Mercedes Vito 120 CDI

    #11 22nd June 2011, 11:29

    Are you using it on track of just road?
    
    I agree with Kam racing, Mintex 1144's or the like on std size discs or if you want to go on track buy Mintex 1155's.
12. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #12 22nd June 2011, 13:35

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AlexB theres allways a trade off between weight and stopping forces The larger brakes put the force further from the hub (like a longer lever makes lifting easier its a similar principal) and being larger dissipate heat quicker but weigh more A higher friction material in the pad and disc combo will see similar results without the weight

    Moving the caliper away from the hub changes the effort required by the hydraulic system (and your foot)
    It does not allow a greater force to be applied and therefore stop you quicker. The friction level which locks the wheels is dictated by the tyres and the road and the forces being applied to them.
    Even the pad compound is ultimately about consistency when heat is built up. There may be a small difference due to how fast maximum braking pressure can be applied but its not going generally going to stop you driving into a tree in a skill failure moment.
    Pad material can make a massive difference to confidence, pedal feel and braking distance if the standard compound is shocking but usually its down to road contamination over a long time. Oil and crap can ruin a set of pads.
    
    Kev
13. AlexBp West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL

    #13 22nd June 2011, 13:48

    I misunderstood the principals then apologies
    
    I thought being further away was what made the difference
14. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #14 22nd June 2011, 14:02

    to be honest its not necessarily an easy one to get your head round. But the easiest way to think about it is ask your self why stopping distances increase when the road is wet. The same factors go the other way. Stick some slicks on a car and stopping distances will decrease.
    The main factors to then consider is how to not overload the front tyres, causing the car to skid. This is best done by lowering or controlling weight transfer. Lowering by making the car lighter or using better suspension and a stiffer chassis to limit weight transfer forward. This allows the brakes to run well within tollerances
    If you can sort those issues, then have tyres or a road surface that increase the co-efficient of friction acting on them, then potentially the standard braking system will not be able to lock the tyres so an upgrade is very necessary. Not seen a road car get to that level yet
    
    Its a vast subject and i'm sure dissertations could be written on it so its not exactly a favourite topic of conversation.
15. Mansfield-Matthew-vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2010 Mansfield Posts: 105 Saxo VTS

    #15 22nd June 2011, 14:24

    Well im gunna go with 266s so I haven’t got to throw the weight of the gti-6 brakes around, rather go bigger brakes to be honest though just to give me that peace of mind.
16. user_27114 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2008 jarraaaaaaaaaa Posts: 3580 Mk2 16v VTR + Nitrous

    #16 22nd June 2011, 15:11

    I have some for sale:
    
    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=376868
    
    
17. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

    #17 22nd June 2011, 17:58

    got 266s and 283s for sale here mate