food for thought

1. WestyVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2004 Gosport Posts: 3140 saxo VTR, Clio 1.2 turbo, prious, Kawasaki 363 nin

   #1 9th July 2006, 21:31

   is it at all possible to remap the engine to produsce more torque than BHP! i mean say you mod teh car to approx 130bhp without the cams being done can you then mapp it to produce say 130Lbs/Ft & only say 110bhp!??
   
   do you get my drift!??
   
   
2. Imfromwales Established Member Joined: Jun 2006 Durham - NOT WALES!! Posts: 1952 Saxo SX 1.1

   #2 9th July 2006, 21:52

   I have never understood torque...what is it?
3. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

   #3 9th July 2006, 22:01

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Imfromwales I have never understood torque...what is it?

   let me dig up my 'mother of all posts' about torque...
   two ticks...
4. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

   #4 9th July 2006, 22:04

   I quote (from me)
   http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...ight=geek+mode
   
   Ok geek mode time:
   
   TORQUE:
   The only useful 'thing', if you like, that an engine produces is torque nothing else, an engine does not produce power.
   
   When you mash the accelerator to the floor and start to increase in speed that feeling that you experience is due to the torque produced (or force applied) by the engine.
   
   The more torque (force) produced by the engine, the quicker the rate of acceleration.
   
   If you remember science at school...
   F=MA
   force = mass * acceleration
   
   so if your mass remains constant, the acceleration increases the more force applied.
   
   
   POWER:
   
   Power = Torque * RPM
   
   Power is a function of torque and RPM - hence why most reciprocating engines have power towards the end of the rev range.
   
   If you look at rolling road figures you'll see that torque peaks at roughly half way along the rev range on a non turbo engine and then slowly trails off.
   
   F1 car engine despite having loads of power (+900bhp) actually have relatively very little torque, around the same as ferrari (which 'only' has around 350bhp) but because they can rev like a bastard to 19,000rpm is why the power figures are so high.
   
   So....
   
   Torque determines your acceleration (depending on gearbox set up)
   
   Power determines your top speed (again depending on gearbox set up)
   
   
   I CANT BELIEVE I KNOW THIS SHIT... im off to shoot myself. Any other questions then fire away.
5. Imfromwales Established Member Joined: Jun 2006 Durham - NOT WALES!! Posts: 1952 Saxo SX 1.1

   #5 9th July 2006, 22:10

   cheers mate
6. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

   #6 9th July 2006, 22:28

   No worries
   
   ..and westy,
   plenty of cars/engines have higher torque figures than bhp figures, like mine and engines with large litreage or large strokes (and diesels in general). you want to remember torque and horsepower are two different entities, and measure different things (despite on being derived from the other).
   
   Torque on the continent is measured in NewtonMetres as opposed to FootPounds.. in the Nm the figures appear even higher
7. WestyVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2004 Gosport Posts: 3140 saxo VTR, Clio 1.2 turbo, prious, Kawasaki 363 nin

   #7 10th July 2006, 08:16

   thats fantastic i know what torque is though! So back on track can you map a car to have less BHP & more lbs/ft!!
   
   Ive heard you can opinions pls.... tec heads get in this thred! LOL
8. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

   #8 10th July 2006, 08:30

   Do i detect someone has been playing Need For Speed Underground2???
   
   Its usually more to do with remapping when you have a turbo fitted, where you have the ability to mess around with the boost that the turbo outputs - not sure on naturally aspirated engines though. You can tweak the fueling across the rev range - i.e. smooth flat spots and dips in the torque curve but would in all likelihood increase your bhp too - because as i mentioned above... BHP is derived from torque
9. WestyVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2004 Gosport Posts: 3140 saxo VTR, Clio 1.2 turbo, prious, Kawasaki 363 nin

   #9 10th July 2006, 09:51

   i mate of mine has done it while working for a tuning company - customer came in & wanted more torque than BHP said theres the car. they had in on the rollers mapping it loads of times changing things around to see if it made a difference. & eventually it did think it had about 130bhp & 180lbs / ft or there abouts. not 100% sure on figures tho!
   
   just wondering if you could with a sax, i mean get the fueling & mixtures right, job done right!??
   
   havnt been playin need for speed underground since i sold my laptop ! dam u!!
   
   
10. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #10 10th July 2006, 10:26

    Im genuinely not trying to be pedantic or anything but 'i want more torque than horsepower' they're two different measurements (lbf and bhp respectively)- thus you cant make one bigger than the other.
    
    you could program it to put bugger all fuel in along the top end, which would reduce torque in that region and a result lower your horse power - which seems daft in my opinion.
11. WestyVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2004 Gosport Posts: 3140 saxo VTR, Clio 1.2 turbo, prious, Kawasaki 363 nin

    #11 10th July 2006, 11:34

    thats fine so can you increase the torque by remapping! i think you can & sod the BHP figures.... they are irrelivant
12. WestyVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2004 Gosport Posts: 3140 saxo VTR, Clio 1.2 turbo, prious, Kawasaki 363 nin

    #12 13th July 2006, 20:57

    can we discuss this please it really has interested me!?