VTR blue injectors in rallye/xsi head

1. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #1 6th November 2011, 20:19

   Does any one have a solution to this?
   Basically when you try and use VTR injectors in a single feed fuel rail on an XSI head they wont fit and get pulled up out of the injector ports when you tighten up the bolts. Has anyone else had this issue? I'm running 1.6 xsi injectors at the moment without a problem but have just found my spare VTR rail and injectors wont fit correctly. The xsi/rallye injectors are a good deal wider and taller than the vtr ones too. Has anyone just heated up the tabs where the securing bolts go through and bend them the opposite way, as I cant see any other way of doing this effectively and to achieve a good seal on the injectors so I dont get an idle speed of 4000 rpm etc
2. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #2 7th November 2011, 18:43

   anyone tried this? Id have thought someone would have had this issue when using rallye heads on vtr bottom ends
3. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #3 9th November 2011, 10:31

   bump up
4. vtr_chris90 Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 nuneaton Posts: 1796 LY R26

   #4 9th November 2011, 11:07

   I used vtr injectors on a my old Rallye head, all I did was cut the brackets off the rail, now this meant that the rail wasn't fully secured but was only a temp thing for me whilst I waited for some injectors that would fit and send them off for cleaning. But the even without securin the rail there wasn't any movement and didn't hav any problems with the injectors popping out. You need to use the xsi/Rallye injectors. They are more than up to the xsi/Rallye injectors, which are 160cc. If you want a higher cc then you need to get some the same shape just from a different vehicle, iirc the 306gti-6 injectors are about 200cc ish I really can't remember the figure but I know they are the right shape. Some one will probably correct me on the cc of the 306 ones or you could probably find out by searching.
5. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #5 9th November 2011, 11:13

   Cheers buddy, I was thinking of cutting the tabs off to try it. Its on VTR mk1 crossover year injection (coil over plug coil pack and single plug ecu) but its got the XSi injectors in the VTR rail which fit nicely but I think is causing it over fuel like bugger so ideally I need something which is the length of the rallye ones just not 160 cc like you say. What cc are the VTR ones, they are tiny in comparison?
6. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

   #6 9th November 2011, 15:20

   whats the full spec of your engine again?? and can you tell me which injectors your using now and what injectors you want to use? is the rail your using the single inlet one from a silcertop? let me know ill find out ccs etc for you
7. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #7 9th November 2011, 15:28

   Its the TU5J2 (rallye/1.6 xsi). Im using the fatter, brown injectors from the xsi rail which I've put into the VTR single inlet rail from the silver top engine. They look the same as S2 rallye injectors apart from the colour (brown instead of silver).
   Ideally I want to use the VTR injectors but they are about half the height of the brown xsi ones, so I need some that flow the same amount as vtr ones but are physically taller so when you bolt the rail up to the head, it doesnt yank the injectors from their ports. Otherwise I fear a remap is the only way I'm going to be able to get the fuelling down to acceptable levels when using the brown injectors
8. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

   #8 9th November 2011, 15:31

   what ecu you running?
9. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #9 9th November 2011, 15:38

   VTR silvertop single plug
10. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #10 9th November 2011, 15:57

    right the slim picco style injectors you get in the vtr (blue ones) @ 3 bar run at 141cc 306 gti6 injectors @ 3bar are closer to 265cc so way to big those ones apparantly the browns are 140cc @3bar
    
    blues and greens are the same cc wise 149cc @ 3bar
    
    I am only going on a big hunch now but I am assuming you are still running the oe fuel pressure reg under the rear bench in your vtr? if so the VTRs run @ 3.5 bar which may be a reason as to why on the new engine it's over fuelling a bit as the fpr in effect is upping the cc of the injectors your using now.
    
    If this is the case I would try 2 easy things before you go getting another set of injectors try a 3 bar fpr from a 16v or the original xsi (both are direct replacements) or source a 2.5 bar one from a 1.3 rallye /1.4 xsi?
11. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #11 9th November 2011, 19:42

    Yeah mate I'm using that FPR, I'll try and source one. Coming to think of it, I think I have one from the XSi in the old fuel rail that came on the xsi engine. Reckon I could use it with a bit of pipe work jiggery? Its only small, here a picture of it:
    
    
12. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #12 9th November 2011, 19:51

    no need for buggering about dude its a direct swap just undo the cap under the back seat closest to the seat belt you will see the 3.5bar vtr one in the little holder held in by a clip just undo said clip pop the vac pipe off plop the 3bar xsi one you got there in vac pipe back on clip back on job done. If you look on the xsi one it should say 3.0bar on it or something along those lines
13. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #13 9th November 2011, 20:14

    EDIT - helps when I read. Cheers mate, i'll clean this one up and give it a go!
14. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #14 9th November 2011, 20:20

    aye give it a go it should bring the fuelling back more in line with what the injectors were doing originally 0.5 bar may not seem alot but in your case its noticeable
15. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #15 11th November 2011, 19:46

    Top advice mate, made is a bit better! Less smoke and "rich" fuel smell. next thing to try is a 2.5 bar one
16. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #16 11th November 2011, 19:51

    what I would try aswell if you can be arsed is get some injector cleaner in there aswell when you run the 2.5 bar one
17. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #17 11th November 2011, 20:32

    will do mate!