Non Starter ??? Immoboliser ????

  1. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #1
    Hi guys, Ive looked into this fault but cannot see any posts so here we go.
    After a good few months of my car being off the road(no thanks to dvla being tards) I have returned to my saxo vtr phase 1 and the plan was to get her ready for MOT but cannot get her to start, now only back in september i moved her to her current location and she ran fine with no faults but the battery went flat as expected with standing and so i took it off and charged it. Now when i try to start her she just turns but doesnt seem to spark and no fuel. Also now the blowers dont work either whether thats tied in i dont know. I have reset the fuel cut off switch and that didnt help, checked through every fuse, the contacts and the boxs but all fine.
    I honestly dont know where to look next except the immobilser ??

    Oh i have replaced the sensor on the throttle body two but that hasnt helped.
    Guys i really need some ideas here as the car needs sorting very soon, my better half is now pregnant so the pressure is on to sort her.
  2. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #2
    Does the fuelpump run when you turn on the ignition? You should hear it from under the rearbench....
    It should run briefly when putting ignition on and the run contiusly when starting...
  3. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #3
    thanks for reply, no i should have mentioned i cannot hear any sound from the fuel pump. It did try to start up yesterday but only briefly and was maybe 200 revs rather than like 800-1000. Today i got nothing, no sounds from fuel pump and it didnt try to start.
  4. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #4
    ohhh one thing i should say also is that since i bought the car the alarm hasnt really worked properly. I used to just unlock the car with key and was fine. When it tries to sound it doesnt do it right, just some stupid noise rather than high pitched and even when i use fob it keeps like beeping.
  5. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #5
    Then i would check voltage to the fuelpump with ignition on... It could be bad fuelpump, fuelpump relay or missing signal/power to the pumprelay.
  6. Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2006 Huddersfield Posts: 393 Zx volcane td Peugeot 205 1600 auto
    #6
    If there's an immobiliser problem then doesn't the orange key symbol flash on the dashboard?
  7. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dt_ View Post
    If there's an immobiliser problem then doesn't the orange key symbol flash on the dashboard?
    yeah the immobiliser should flash if there is a problem...
  8. Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2006 Huddersfield Posts: 393 Zx volcane td Peugeot 205 1600 auto
    #8
    I'd agree with the guy above, check fuel pump etc. is there definitely fuel in the tank?
  9. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #9
    yeh got fuel in her, like i said she did kinda start yesterday but for a very short while and also at very low revs...i was thinking the immobiliser maybe connected to the fuel pump and so wasnt allowing fuel from that to the system..if thats the case thats done by cutting voltage to the pump right ??

    I shall have too check as you said the voltage at the fuel pump, maybe thats now gone with standing. One thing i dont get is why now my blowers dont work at all, they were perfect in september and as i no fuse problem.
  10. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #10
    Is the alarm on it a standard factory fit one or an aftermarket one?
  11. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #11
    well tbh im not too sure..what i can tell you is its a maystar alarm, whether thats standard fit i dont know as it was fitted and failing when i bought the car.
  12. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #12
    The immobilizer could cut the power for the fuelpump. But is the immoboliser symbol off when trying to start the car...?

    I wouldnt beleive it to be immobiliser fault as you have it started up briefly....

    Else try giving it some startboost spray throught the inlet after the airfilter, should be able to start and run on this aslong as you keep blowing it in... This will defently teel you it is a fuel supply issue...
  13. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #13
    The blower could be failing do to the standstill. But could also be general electric fault. If the ignition switch is failing you could have several things not working...

    But i would defently try to start off with measuring voltage supply to the fuelpump and try starting it with boosterspray....
  14. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GotTheBug2010 View Post
    well tbh im not too sure..what i can tell you is its a maystar alarm, whether thats standard fit i dont know as it was fitted and failing when i bought the car.
    I`d say 90% sure it`s your alarm that`s faulty which in turn is cutting the power to the fuel pump relay.I had this with an aftermarket alarm shortly after I bought my saxo.I called an autoelectrician out because it was a mass of wires.
  15. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevo67 View Post
    I`d say 90% sure it`s your alarm that`s faulty which in turn is cutting the power to the fuel pump relay.I had this with an aftermarket alarm shortly after I bought my saxo.I called an autoelectrician out because it was a mass of wires.
    If it has always been faulty and going off every time he opend the car it proberly isnt connectet in such way it will cut of power for the fuelpump. Or else the power for the fuelpump would have been cut of each time this hapend. But wont rule depends on the installation of the alarm...
  16. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #16
    the alarm triggered without touching the car when i got it thats why i just used the key and they pressed the button on the dash. It wasnt a matter of opening the door or anyone being near it. Now if i use the fob yes it locks and unlocks the car but the siren still seems to crackle and the lights flash a number of times.
    Hope thats a little more help
  17. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #17
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GotTheBug2010 View Post
    the alarm triggered without touching the car when i got it thats why i just used the key and they pressed the button on the dash. It wasnt a matter of opening the door or anyone being near it. Now if i use the fob yes it locks and unlocks the car but the siren still seems to crackle and the lights flash a number of times.
    Hope thats a little more help
    But it has been like that all the time right?
  18. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    If it has always been faulty and going off every time he opend the car it proberly isnt connectet in such way it will cut of power for the fuelpump. Or else the power for the fuelpump would have been cut of each time this hapend. But wont rule depends on the installation of the alarm...
    Not always these problems can be intermittent mate.
  19. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #19
    the alarm has always been this way yes, but i never had to remove the battery before..seems since i removed that everything has gone pete tong
  20. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GotTheBug2010 View Post
    the alarm has always been this way yes, but i never had to remove the battery before..seems since i removed that everything has gone pete tong
    I dont think this should have anything to do with it...
    You need to start out with checking the voltage suply for the fuelpump. And take it from there....
  21. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #21
    yup ill check it in the morning and update from there, many thanx for your help guys and i hope its just as simple as a new fuel pump lol...ty again
  22. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #22
    ok guys to update the fuel pump does work as i connected it direct too battery and it wined as it should, however i also tested the voltage and its only getting 2.14v from normal connection. Also i have noticed that a wire from the throttle boddy is not connected, i assume this is an earth ?? any ideas where that should be connected too or where i can connect it... this wire has a black block at the end and an eye built in so thats why i assumed its an earth.
  23. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #23
    The "wire" is a condensator i will help stabilise the current... Just screw it on any where you can where it would get a good connection.

    Check out the fuelpump relay under the ecu, have a look at the connections. Try to listen if it clicks when you put ignition on... Have you tried starting it while supplying power for the fuelpump?
  24. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #24
    ok so i popped up to my car today and checked the relay which is clicking so sure thats fine, i also replaced the bracket for the sensor and put on a new fuel cut off switch, still nothing Will try running live direct to fuel pump and see what happens there and also have been told that there are 2 live on the ignition, apparently 1 of those can drop its charge so gonna check that too.
  25. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2009 Denmark Posts: 193 Mk2 VTR
    #25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GotTheBug2010 View Post
    ok so i popped up to my car today and checked the relay which is clicking so sure thats fine, i also replaced the bracket for the sensor and put on a new fuel cut off switch, still nothing Will try running live direct to fuel pump and see what happens there and also have been told that there are 2 live on the ignition, apparently 1 of those can drop its charge so gonna check that too.
    The relay can have a bad connection. but try givning the pump a direct current.... But dont run it like this for a long time, only to find out if its working. If it works then you either have a bad live to the pump relay, a bad connection in the relay or a bad connection from the relay to the pump.

    If the relay clicks, then the iginition switch shouldnt be the problem....
  26. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #26
    ok an update to my issue now we have a change in weather i can commence again.
    Ok so i was told to check the 4 fuses in the engine bay for fuel and immobiliser(2 of each) for a live connection, i did this and it seems i dont have a live on 1 of the fuel fuses(direct live activates fuel pump), to add to this i also checked for live on the coil pack and again no live at all. After a search on Google it seems the immobiliser could well have locked the ecu which in turn is causing my starting problem.
    Im sure someone on here must have had some issue due to removing their battery for a period of time and sorted it ???

    To recap, the car is now a non-starter, the blowers are now non functional, no live to coil pack and no live to fuel pump fuse....All worked fine until i removed the battery for a short period to charge maybe 2-3weeks.

    Im now pretty sure its all down to the immobiliser but not sure how to cure the problem...having someone out to fit new system could cure but car is non runner so even after new system fitted could still have issue and worse as fitter wouldnt be able to test propper. thats saying its not the immoboliser thats causing the issue, on the other hand it could be sorted with new system.
    Would it also have perma locked the ecu ??? i have no idea ...
  27. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #27
    ohh forgot to say i have checked the relay under the ecu and its bone dry...no signs of bad connection so doubtful thats an issue.
  28. Newbie Joined: Oct 2010 Stoke-onTrent Posts: 22 Citreon Saxo VTR 1999 mk1
    #28
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GotTheBug2010 View Post
    ok so i popped up to my car today and checked the relay which is clicking so sure thats fine, i also replaced the bracket for the sensor and put on a new fuel cut off switch, still nothing Will try running live direct to fuel pump and see what happens there and also have been told that there are 2 live on the ignition, apparently 1 of those can drop its charge so gonna check that too.
    Both lives on ignition are fine and live and live to fuel pump works both direct and to the fuel pump fuse but car will still not start due to no spark.