gearbox guru's see here

1. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #1 28th December 2011, 22:09

   right ppl, is it possible to run a vtr 5th in a vts box...
   
   if so what will the result be using the vts final drive?, i want a closer box but would like to keep the vtr top end as i cant rev the R engine as high... so the S box would be shit on the motorway with my set up and top out far too early
   
   i dont proclaim to know too much in regards to gearboxes , but know its possible on some boxes to do similar... can you do it on the MA boxes?
   
   much love
2. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

   #2 28th December 2011, 22:13

   can't see why not as 5th gear is seperate on both the mainshaft and layshaft, sure theres someone who knows more about the internals of gearboxes then i do, i've never got into swapping gears for different ratios,just standard ones.
3. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #3 28th December 2011, 22:17

   cheers jason
   
   this is why i need help , i can strip and rebuild boxes, but ive not touched a saxo box inside yet, and know its not possible on alot of other boxes, but im sure ive read ppl changing gears on here before....
   
   its just what result will it have with the vts final drive being different..if indeed its possible
4. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

   #4 28th December 2011, 22:25

   well the centres between the mainshaft and layshaft are the same throughout the range so i'd guess that the gears would be interchangeable, i've got an S box at work thats got 5th gear set missing, if i can find a vtr gearset i'll try it

   1 user thanked this post: blackie_2k5
5. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

   #5 28th December 2011, 22:26

   as for gearing surely it'll just give the S type of acceleration then a vtr cruising speed? is the S and VTR final drive the same ratio?
6. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

   #6 28th December 2011, 22:27

   5th gear is interchangable, I'm not sure on gearing. There are lots of calculators on the Internet so easy enough to work out

   1 user thanked this post: blackie_2k5
7. user_29491 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Lancs Posts: 4124 JP4S'd R.

   #7 28th December 2011, 22:28

   Ive always wanted to put a vtr 5th in my 1.1 box.
   
   http://www.suzukituning.com/PSA/MA5%...r%20change.htm
   
   Tells you how to do it =]
8. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #8 28th December 2011, 22:35

   Cheers for the info lads, Jason that would be amazing if you could, I see know reason it can't be done, and by my theory it should be just as you describe..... better acceleration with the same top end
   
   But can't help thinking there is something missing :/
9. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #9 28th December 2011, 22:45

   Saxova I did thank you but i must have ran out :/
10. user_29491 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Lancs Posts: 4124 JP4S'd R.

    #10 28th December 2011, 22:46

    Haha, don't worry
11. tweeqd Established Member Joined: Mar 2006 Farnham Surrey Posts: 1542 AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS 205 gti6 E 320

    #11 28th December 2011, 22:52

    all the gears in MA boxes are iterchangeable, even the 4 speed ones but they have a shorter main shaft so cant take a 5th
    
    there isnt a lot of difference in 5th gears its the FD that makes most of the difference in these boxes
12. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #12 28th December 2011, 22:55

    Balls.... I had a feeling this would be the case Martin
13. tweeqd Established Member Joined: Mar 2006 Farnham Surrey Posts: 1542 AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS 205 gti6 E 320

    #13 28th December 2011, 23:02

    why do you think i went BE
14. user_36198 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2009 ilkeston derbyshire Posts: 9823 C2 VTR stripped, 406hdi, clio 172

    #14 28th December 2011, 23:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tweeqd why do you think i went BE

    i thought you'd fitted a BE as you kept busting chocolate gearboxes and shafts lol.
15. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #15 28th December 2011, 23:05

    BE is much greater expense they have all the good ratio boxes though lol
16. tweeqd Established Member Joined: Mar 2006 Farnham Surrey Posts: 1542 AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS 205 gti6 E 320

    #16 28th December 2011, 23:10

    BE isnt that expensive, mine cost me £250 fitted
    
    ive only broken one MA and that was years ago on my tuned GT engine
    i did over 10k with 200 lbs/ft and never had a problem with my box (rebuilt VTR with ATB)
    
    the reason i went BE was to see if i could and the greater selection of gears and FD's
17. monka Established Member Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1368

    #17 28th December 2011, 23:12

    although the 'main' gearbox's are relatively the same, with the main differences being in the final drives, the vtr does have a different, longer 5th than any other gearbox (though the same as a diesel box), i believe it makes about a 500rpm difference in speed on the s1 rallye box's, but no idea how much of a difference on a vts/gti box, though there would be some, it wont be the same as a vtr
18. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #18 29th December 2011, 08:25

    Cheers lads, itscthe cost off a diff on top though Martin lol
19. VR6Boki Newbie Joined: Feb 2010 Sarajevo, BiH Posts: 10

    #19 29th December 2011, 15:26

    5-th gear on VTS gearbox is 0,850, and on VTR is 0,767, also Final Drive on VTS is 3,9 and on VTR 3,7, so it'd big difference.
20. wicked-vtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2009 Surrey Posts: 2608 200sx s14a mark 1 vts

    #20 29th December 2011, 16:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monka although the 'main' gearbox's are relatively the same, with the main differences being in the final drives, the vtr does have a different, longer 5th than any other gearbox (though the same as a diesel box), i believe it makes about a 500rpm difference in speed on the s1 rallye box's, but no idea how much of a difference on a vts/gti box, though there would be some, it wont be the same as a vtr

    Untrue, not all vtr boxes do. I bought a vtr fifth to fit in my 1.4 xsi box, when i came to counting teeth I found the fifth from the vtr, vts box i took off and xsi box where exactly the same.
    Talking to adsayer, I've been informed some of the vtr boxes have the same fifth as the other 'sports' boxes, some of the 1.1 fifths will provide a longer gear. Pm Barry123 (adsayer) as he knows more than me on the subjects
21. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #21 29th December 2011, 16:58

    As above, you want a 5th gear from a non-sports cluster box. I always thought the VTR boxes had the non-sports gear cluster, but it turns out quite a few of the later ones had the sports cluster.
    
    Blackie: You could try speaking to Terry at GRS - he works in the same unit as Just Diesels in Blaydon. He might have a non-sports 5th gear lying around.
22. monka Established Member Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1368

    #22 29th December 2011, 17:04

    well to be safe then, get the 5th out of a deisel box?
23. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #23 29th December 2011, 21:26

    cheers for the info lads...would explain alot tbh
    
    my o3 vtr box on the car now is quick as fuck with the power....but once you get into 4th and then 5th the acceleration doubles tbf, hit 80mph and it goes into warp speed...which would explain the 5th being the same...but wit current final drive i can get it off the clock and that keeps me happy... with a vts bx its top out too soon i feel